Appreciate the comments. Will be playing soon . . .
[BTS] SGOTM 26 - The Indecisive
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I think you are good to go Cactus Pete! I opened the game, not much to add yet. Any thoughts on nationhood? (Bismarck fav civic) Maybe you already discussed about it, but I didn't see nationalism in the mentionned tech path. Did you veto it to rush labs, corps, etc?
edit: I guess it's best to tech it near the end anyway to get the most beakers out of the capital anyway.
edit: I guess it's best to tech it near the end anyway to get the most beakers out of the capital anyway.
Only had time to get 8 turns (they are getting longer) but advanced our cause without untoward incidents:
T150 (800 AD): Traded Compass to Rome for HBR and 50 gold, but gifts would not get him to trade his map (probably because we are such heathens)
T151: Win AP vote and Peter votes with us; Gunpowder researched; trade Astro to Peter for Engineering and research Chemistry; trade fur to Rome for 5gpt; trade clams to Bismarck for 3gpt; trade Aesthetics to SB for 50 gold; Bismarck adopts Bureaucracy
T152: Bismarck completes the St of Zeus; Judaism is spread to Krasnoyarsk; Peter has begun research on Paper, so trade it to him for 20 gold and map, which now includes Paris; missionary spreads Judaism to Moscow; chop a forest into MoM
T153: Rome adopts OR; we achieve circumnavigation; Russia now researching Guilds;
T154: Uneventful
T155: Judaism has spread to Ulm; spread Christianity to Aachen; meet Louis IV of France but, unfortunately, he is annoyed with us and won’t open borders or trade his extra iron; trade Louis Literature for 60 gold and he opens his borders; gift him clams and buy his map for 5 gold; meet Saladin who is also annoyed with us; trade him silver for silk but still annoyed; trade him Literature for 10 gold and get Open borders but not access to his map; note that Sal and Louis both lack furs, so plan to road ours in BB; also plan to whip workboat into MoM in 6R to net whales for trade
T156: Chemistry>Liberalism; spread Christianity to Paris; trade Lit to Sioux for 40 gold
T157: King Louis comes demanding Optics and I give it; complete Christian missionary for Snaketown; trade Rome Lit for 50 gold
T158: Peter comes offering to trade world maps, but I turn him down; Sitting Bull adopts Vassalage; a forest grows north of Bib; leave Christian missionary active in Mecca just to make sure the attack on the city fails; sending IT galleon to pick up chariot and worker from galley then deliver worker to IT to pre-chop and chariot to eventually go to CC for later pillaging; trade fur to Saladin for 2gpt; Liberalism researched down to one turn, so switch to SM
Have not traded our map, so there is a little gold available there when we need it.
How do we get the French friendly enough to trade us iron?
Is there a risk in taking gems or deer trade away from Peter so we can get gpt from him and others?
Note that we could tech Fascism, get a free GG, and avoid going to war.
Save posted at Central. [Note graph of Home Slices culture is exponential. How and why are they doing that? Presume it's somehow benefiting their research.]
T150 (800 AD): Traded Compass to Rome for HBR and 50 gold, but gifts would not get him to trade his map (probably because we are such heathens)
T151: Win AP vote and Peter votes with us; Gunpowder researched; trade Astro to Peter for Engineering and research Chemistry; trade fur to Rome for 5gpt; trade clams to Bismarck for 3gpt; trade Aesthetics to SB for 50 gold; Bismarck adopts Bureaucracy
T152: Bismarck completes the St of Zeus; Judaism is spread to Krasnoyarsk; Peter has begun research on Paper, so trade it to him for 20 gold and map, which now includes Paris; missionary spreads Judaism to Moscow; chop a forest into MoM
T153: Rome adopts OR; we achieve circumnavigation; Russia now researching Guilds;
T154: Uneventful
T155: Judaism has spread to Ulm; spread Christianity to Aachen; meet Louis IV of France but, unfortunately, he is annoyed with us and won’t open borders or trade his extra iron; trade Louis Literature for 60 gold and he opens his borders; gift him clams and buy his map for 5 gold; meet Saladin who is also annoyed with us; trade him silver for silk but still annoyed; trade him Literature for 10 gold and get Open borders but not access to his map; note that Sal and Louis both lack furs, so plan to road ours in BB; also plan to whip workboat into MoM in 6R to net whales for trade
T156: Chemistry>Liberalism; spread Christianity to Paris; trade Lit to Sioux for 40 gold
T157: King Louis comes demanding Optics and I give it; complete Christian missionary for Snaketown; trade Rome Lit for 50 gold
T158: Peter comes offering to trade world maps, but I turn him down; Sitting Bull adopts Vassalage; a forest grows north of Bib; leave Christian missionary active in Mecca just to make sure the attack on the city fails; sending IT galleon to pick up chariot and worker from galley then deliver worker to IT to pre-chop and chariot to eventually go to CC for later pillaging; trade fur to Saladin for 2gpt; Liberalism researched down to one turn, so switch to SM
Have not traded our map, so there is a little gold available there when we need it.
How do we get the French friendly enough to trade us iron?
Is there a risk in taking gems or deer trade away from Peter so we can get gpt from him and others?
Note that we could tech Fascism, get a free GG, and avoid going to war.
Save posted at Central. [Note graph of Home Slices culture is exponential. How and why are they doing that? Presume it's somehow benefiting their research.]
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I do not see a way to get France to Pleased other then gifting 20 techs. Let us hope Louis demands 2 more techs from us.
HRE and Arabia hate eachother. I think we are better of being enemies with HRE as Arabia might loose any christian city and we will need open borders to spread it again. So let us deny any demands from HRE and avoid trades.
HRE and Arabia hate eachother. I think we are better of being enemies with HRE as Arabia might loose any christian city and we will need open borders to spread it again. So let us deny any demands from HRE and avoid trades.
Worker in galley can be brought back into 5W and be able to chop (and whip the wkbt) next turn.
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What about converting to Free Religion briefly during a GA. Thinking he would like us more, and we could make the trade for iron then?
Can we hold off on this for a while. Perhaps Berlin is building Itza.
If we spend two turns building a workboat it will take four turns to finish MoM. Then we may as well not chop any forests and just wait to see what wonder Berlin is building. With OR and forge Berlin probably has 35 hammers a turn. But I do not know if they have a forge, but I guess they do.
So either we wait and see or we chop this turn, chop next turn and then 5 pop whip MoM.
Maybe we should plan a whip chain in 5W. I guess we tried in 6R but it got ruined by the hammer bonus from forge.
Not sure I follow this. By your calculations, it will take Berlin at least 3 turns to build MoM. If we wait 'til next turn to pop whip wkbt into MoM and also chop two forests, then we can finish MoM on the third turn. I am under the impression that. if we complete a wonder same turn as AI, we get the wonder.
Well, I've whipped and then chopped on the same turn and been oblivious to that I guess. Is it possible the whip/chop order makes a difference?
How sure are you about the hammers into a building in Berlin. The Statue of Zeus was completed there just six turns ago (in 820 AD, turn 152), which is why I was comfortable moving the worker. How can he have put so many hammers in so fast? He doesn't have marble. Could he be building it in Hamburg, which by my calculations puts him at least 4 turns away?
I've been whipping before chopping, not trying to lower pop needed for whipping by chopping.
I can see that there is at least one forest missing in Berlin, there are a few other ways to get hammers and my estimate of 35 might be wrong. We can agree on if he is building MoM we have at most 3 turns. Either way RRRaskolnikov is up. Let us see what his plan is. I will slightly mmore time from Wednesday onwards.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Got it.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Are the forests west of 6R chopped to 1 turn?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Assuming there are, MoM plan
t158:
13h in workboat and 289 in MoM.
whipping workboat gives 37 hammers, +13 from natural production = 63 hammers into the wb
Overflow is (63 - 30)*0.75 (prod bonus removed from overflow) = 24 hammers.
Chopping with the worker 7 this turn will just create gold so no. Worker 3 (in the galleon) can't chop before turn 160... (one turn to get to the silver or the tile east of it, and one turn to chop - the galleon has already moved -) so the second chop won't speed up the wonder (since we whip that turn). It can gives overflow though (didn't think that far yet)
t159:
overflow + natural prod + chop gives (24+13+30)*1.25 = 83 hammers into MoM
t160:
MoM has 289+83 = 372 hammers in, lacks 78 hammers. Whipping for 5 gives 5*15 (wonder malus) *1.25 = 93 hammers (4 pop gives 75... snif), which completes the wonder.
t161: MoM done (our turn order is before the AI).
So we can have it in 3 turns, now we need to know if we want to use the second forest to speed up the National Epic
.
I will eat then look closer at the rest of the save.
t158:
13h in workboat and 289 in MoM.
whipping workboat gives 37 hammers, +13 from natural production = 63 hammers into the wb
Overflow is (63 - 30)*0.75 (prod bonus removed from overflow) = 24 hammers.
Chopping with the worker 7 this turn will just create gold so no. Worker 3 (in the galleon) can't chop before turn 160... (one turn to get to the silver or the tile east of it, and one turn to chop - the galleon has already moved -) so the second chop won't speed up the wonder (since we whip that turn). It can gives overflow though (didn't think that far yet)
t159:
overflow + natural prod + chop gives (24+13+30)*1.25 = 83 hammers into MoM
t160:
MoM has 289+83 = 372 hammers in, lacks 78 hammers. Whipping for 5 gives 5*15 (wonder malus) *1.25 = 93 hammers (4 pop gives 75... snif), which completes the wonder.
t161: MoM done (our turn order is before the AI).
So we can have it in 3 turns, now we need to know if we want to use the second forest to speed up the National Epic
.I will eat then look closer at the rest of the save.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Assuming there are, MoM plan
t158:
13h in workboat and 289 in MoM.
whipping workboat gives 37 hammers, +13 from natural production = 63 hammers into the wb
Overflow is (63 - 30)*0.75 (prod bonus removed from overflow) = 24 hammers.
Chopping with the worker 7 this turn will just create gold so no. Worker 3 (in the galleon) can't chop before turn 160... (one turn to get to the silver or the tile east of it, and one turn to chop - the galleon has already moved -) so the second chop won't speed up the wonder (since we whip that turn). It can gives overflow though (didn't think that far yet)
t159:
overflow + natural prod + chop gives (24+13+30)*1.25 = 83 hammers into MoM
t160:
MoM has 289+83 = 372 hammers in, lacks 78 hammers. Whipping for 5 gives 5*15 (wonder malus) *1.25 = 93 hammers (4 pop gives 75... snif), which completes the wonder.
t161: MoM done (our turn order is before the AI).
So we can have it in 3 turns, now we need to know if we want to use the second forest to speed up the National Epic
I will eat then look closer at the rest of the save.
I didn't factor in OR
(bolded the corrections below)t159:
overflow + natural prod + chop gives (24+11+30)*1.50 = 97 hammers into MoM
t160:
MoM has 289+97 = 386 hammers in, lacks 64 hammers. Whipping for 3 gives 3*15 (wonder malus) *1.50 = 67 hammers, which completes the wonder.
t161: MoM done (our turn order is before the AI).
