[BTS] SGOTM 26 - Unusual Suspects

[ChrisShaffer]

Oracle works for me.

 

[SittinDown]

Ok - looks like Oracle wins the vote.

Tech: Polytheism -> Preisthood.

Where do we want to build the oracle? Has to be coastal. Gerg, Tolosa, or Cal. Tolosa might be a good choice, even though we already put hammers into GLH.

And if we do oracle, what do we want to try to oracle? Main options at the moment would be Metal Casting, Calendar, Monarchy, or CoL. If we tech CoL while we build oracle, we can get Civil Service or Philo. If we tech MC, we could oracle Machinery.

We need a religion, so I'm tempted to grab CoL before Metal casting.

 

[Zhary]

Why do we need a religion if we don't go for AP? Sure we will get a spread to build temples anyway.

After oracle I think Glib should be our next wonder target. For tech I think it should be optics to se if astro is a good idea. Maybethere is some hidden atlantis out there with green grass. Oracling machinery seems like the best idea for this.

May I suggest atechpath:
poly->PH for oracle
MC for oracling machinery
aest->lit for GLib
calendar for MoM
alpha for bulb path
Bulb compass->optics maybe we have enough sciensts to bulb astro at this point.
explore the seas and make future plans

For the city asignment:
More food->more specialist-> more use for glib so Cam would be great for Glib.
Best oracle city would be best moai city and I think that is gerg it has moreseafood than tol and more forest to chop than Cam.

Mom: vienne maybe... general must be coastal and spy/late march wonders are expensive so tol seems to fit in better in those categories.



Some micro suggestion:
If we chop out the granary in cam instead of improve the fur. It's many turns left before we will use that tile while a granary would be useful already at size 3.
Bibs worker could help bring the gems online then return to chop out the mids without losing turns on the finish date.

 

[SittinDown]

Hrm, that's actually a good point.

• Now that Peter has Judiasm, we don't need to found a religion so bad, and it'd be good for diplo to get in the same one as him anyway.

I was running under the old assumption that we were isolated in a no-religion bloc.

 

[SittinDown]

@Zhary - good micro suggestions. Probably good to chop the forest and then improve the deer [border should pop by then, more or less], then the furs.

 

[kcd_swede]

Zhary makes great points.

 

[SittinDown]

I like that tech path. Maybe grab monotheism somewhere in there so we can run OR. Or just trade for it once we have alpha. If we're in the same religion as SB by that point, we can trade with him and not impact the WFYBTA too bad.

 

[SittinDown]

Ok - so here's a rough PPP:


~ 5 turns.

• Polytheism
• Priesthood
• Scout Peter, migrate surplus WB's to Western cities.
• Pickup warrior on galley.
• Bib's worker goes and helps with gems.
• Keep whipping usefully. Keep chopping when needed.
• Chop the granary in Cal. (Is it worth speeding up the granary before the border pop, just to grow until low food tiles?)

Probably do Metal Casting next, but we can stop this play set before that.

I can load up the save again to fine tune a clearer picture of whip optimizations or build order, but we can't get too far off the rails in 5 turns.

 

[Zhary]

Good point about OR we have a lot to build and the 25% certainly helps.

What is your opinion on settle double silver north of bib now? Or should we wait until we have workers or wbs in place?

I guess everyone agreed that the gscient just gonna hang around by now?

 

[SittinDown]

Settling:

• Double silver north does not have food in the 1st ring - so I think we should have a plan where there's a worker there very early to chop. I'm not sold on that site.
• On a second look ....
  • We didn't get a look inland at the southern land in Sitting Bull's area, but there is a 3-food ice area, and a river with crabs at the end of it that might be interesting.
  • We should have our chariot go down there and look around!
  • Peter's island has some empty space still - though it's probably junk, like everything else on this sad forsaken map.

Scientist -

• We can let it get close so we can pop the GS when we need it,to avoid unit costs. Was anticipating a Philo / Edu / Astro bulb, and it seemed better than working unimproved tiles pre-Bronze Working.

 

[kcd_swede]

OR is useless until we get and adopt a religion. Cross that bridge when we get there.
If we are confident to get another GSci before bulbing of Philo/Edu/Astro/Optics or whatever... settling the first GSci will generate more science over the course of the game. If we are science limited, that might be useful. But if doing so slowed down Edu or Astro significantly, better to save it for a bulb. We have probably at least 40t before bulbing, so that is opportunity cost of about 280 beakers + 40 hammers (+maint cost 40? gold) to save him for later.

If we think outside the box... an academy would expand the borders of the 2-silver city very quickly, saving forest for better things, and would be good converting that commerce to science.

I would not delay popping the scientist as it also delays every successive scientist and slows our tech rate by not having specialists. Not worth the 40 gold we'd maybe save.

As for the 5t PPP, I'm green, even though "smart chops and whips" is something I would need help on, even if you don't.

 

[SittinDown]

OR is useless until we get and adopt a religion. Cross that bridge when we get there.

Yeah, agreed. I anticipate we'll pickup Judiasm fairly soon with Peter. OR is a side-quest, but an important one.

an academy would expand the borders of the 2-silver city very quickly

That is outside the box. Interesting. Seems wrong, but I'm intrigued. An academy would seem strong in a science heavy-food city. Rep + Academy + Library = + 10 scientists. Rep + Academy + Library + Uni + Oxford = +18 scientists. Not bad for the cost of 2 food, but that's a long ways off. Cal seems a strong candidate for that. It'll be able to run a lot of specialists eventually.

I would not delay popping the scientis

Fair point. I was more thinking along the lines of working the gems in Vienne is better than running more scientists pre-Mids. I'm flexible though. .... I'm not understanding where the 40 comes into play with your opportunity cost point.

"smart chops and whips"

heh - that's a placeholder for sure. I didn't have time to crack open the save. But basics are just do max overflow whips, and chop the mids, and *maybe* chop a granary, and time our tile yields so we get to the max overflow without going over in various cities.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

40h comes because a settled great scientist generates 1h per turn.

 

[Zhary]

I Think we Will get 2 scientist out of Vienna so there is no need to pause it. Assum we bulb optics with the second one and it is a 400 gpp person we still count near 3 beakers/gpp. Ie running a scientist now is a 9 beaker tile.

I'm starting to get cold feet about the gran chop in Cal. If it's the glib city we earn more by getting the wonder out quickly compared to a fast granary.

 

[SittinDown]

The city has some time and the food isn't up yet - we can whip the granary at size 2, and the whip anger should cool off long before it becomes an issue.

 

[Zhary]

Green or is it still some undecided issues?

 

[SittinDown]

I think we are good. I can play in ~ 12 hours, unless someone else wants to first. we could go over details on the micro for the cities, but we're behind, so if those details are not in place when I'm ready to play later today, we should just go with the macro strategy we wrote down.

• Poly / Preist
• Bib's worker helps with gems.
• Scout Peter, pickup warrior.
• Whip to overflow.
• Keep making the mids.
  
• Will avoid chopping the granary in Cal - save the forest for later.

 

[kcd_swede]

I'm good with that. Green,

 

[SittinDown]

T-82: Missed Oracle.
Stopping to regroup. Didn't tech priesthood yet.

Polytheism completed. 1st gem jungle cleared, 2 turns to mined. No major scouting advancements. Gerg is slow-building granary, it's hammers were good, and I didn't want to go down to 2 pop, we can 6-3 whip the library. Cal will pop borders next turn and 2 WB's are ready to go there. Bib overflow-whipped lighthouse into mids. Vienne ran out of stuff to build, so I started another chariot. Tolosa working on GLH.

Diplo:

• Peter is not putting his points on us.
• No religion spread yet.
• Peter built the great wall - but not oracle or stonehenge.
  
  
  
  Spoiler Turn log :

  
  
  
  
  Turn 78, 925 BC: You have constructed a Granary in Tolosa. Work has now begun on The Great Lighthouse.
  
  Turn 79, 900 BC: Rosalind Franklin (Great Scientist) has been born in Vienne (Lady Stoneheart)!
  
  Turn 80, 875 BC: Bibracte will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
  Turn 80, 875 BC: Tolosa will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
  
  Turn 81, 850 BC: Bibracte has grown to size 5.
  Turn 81, 850 BC: Tolosa has grown to size 4.
  Turn 81, 850 BC: Gergovia has grown to size 5.
  Turn 81, 850 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!
  Turn 81, 850 BC: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Bibracte. Work has now begun on The Pyramids.
  Turn 81, 850 BC: The Oracle has been built in a far away land!
  
  Turn 82, 825 BC: Vienne can hurry Chariot for 1⇴ with 25ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
  Turn 82, 825 BC: The borders of Camulodunum are about to expand.
  Turn 82, 825 BC: Bibracte will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
  
  

 

[Zhary]

Hmm late henge but normal oracle. Maybe someone got marble.
What now for prophet?
Shew because it's on or tech path and has some advantages.
Or take a tech detour to DR or the for ap or spiral.
I wouldn't build chicken pizza or AW we dont really gain anything from them.
Maybe found a religion for the shrine but then there is always the risk of landing it in Vienna and a prophet would be hard to bulb at this point.