TimBentley
Deity
Drafting unhappiness stays with the city after an owner change (I've experienced it capturing AI cities).
SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
jeffelammar
Space for rent
This matches my experience as well.TimBentley said:
Pre flight check
Arhus is providing 30 beakers, we can afford to gift it soon. It builds a tank, finishes next turn.
I irrigate all tiles around to give Gandhi more food.
Oops. No Uranium on our continent. Celts own three sources but will have to know Fission to trade it...
Celts offer MT, 16gpt, 34g for Scientific Method. Guess we'll take it.
Celts have no contact with Ottomans yet.
Upgrading cannons costs 120g each?!?
I'll rather build some new arties...
Take off
0) 1300 Change Trondheim, Oslo, Bergen to artillery. Channel City to harbor.
Some drafts, some forestry.
Trade MT, 16gpt, 34g for Scientific Method.
MM till Rocketry is due in 4 turns at -96gpt...
irrigate tiles around Aarhus.
IBT few Celtic movement.
some aquaeducts, markets, courthouses built.
1) 1305 sell lib and uni in Arhus. Hey! 70 bucks. That will make us happy when Gandhi takes our core...
Although obviously annoyed, Gandhi seems to accept our rigorous peace conditions...
Redeclare immediately. Try a new built arty on Delhi
It's at least 2 spearmen.
Now that's how we can keep track of Gandhi's units
decice not to upgrade knights for now. Rather get Rocketry in 3 turns (325g at -92gpt).
IBT Bodo finishes factory. Now bank.
2) 1310 3 arties find out: min 4 spears in Delhi. 4 Berserks may attack next turn.
Spear rushed in Arhus!
Stockholm production dropped to 99spt due to corruption
good time to build a bank there... (to not waste so many shields)
Molde starts Seti. It has got most commerce and enough production.
IBT Risor finishes commercial dock. Wow! 82 beakers!! Impressive.
3) 1315 Arhus has rushed another spear. Both vet.
4 arties discover a fifth spear in Delhi. four berserks discover 2 archers, 3 other spears.
one is lost, three hurt (3/5, 2/4, 1/5).
will get more arty to prepare!
Rocketry in 1 turn (5-7 beakers spare) at 90% (-47gpt)
Start building walls on Celtic Island.
IBT Researched Rocketry. Now Ecology (cheapest).
Internet Expansion! Some nice ocean tiles available now. All coastal cities' tiles to rearrange
Arhus rushes 3rd spear. Now size 6.
4) 1320 pollution struck twice - barely enough workers to clean it
last forestry actions in Spain.
Trade furs to Celts for 11gpt, 63g.
5 turns to ecology at 90%, -16gpt.
IBT Brennus cancels lux deal (26 gpt). We trade for 21 now. He would pay 23 for 2 luxes.
Gandhi launches an attack. A fearless spear boldly steps on Viking soil!!
5) 1325 our arty scares vet spear to 2/4. Two MP in Arhus, size 5.
after bombing 5 spears in Delhi, our arty discovers 2 swords... Makes at least 7 units there! Tough!
Our three berserks attack, killing three swords. What else is hidden in there?!?
After flight check
So Gandhi is in da house. He seems willing to take our land right now so we shall be alert.
We are one turn into Ecology which I chose because it was the cheapest tech.
I did not upgrade any knights because that would be too expensive. We need to slow down for that.
As I think we need Brennus as a friend for longer, I did not want to scare him
Here is the save
Europe is done, America, take over please
Arhus is providing 30 beakers, we can afford to gift it soon. It builds a tank, finishes next turn.
I irrigate all tiles around to give Gandhi more food.
Oops. No Uranium on our continent. Celts own three sources but will have to know Fission to trade it...
Celts offer MT, 16gpt, 34g for Scientific Method. Guess we'll take it.
Celts have no contact with Ottomans yet.
Upgrading cannons costs 120g each?!?
I'll rather build some new arties...Take off
0) 1300 Change Trondheim, Oslo, Bergen to artillery. Channel City to harbor.
Some drafts, some forestry.
Trade MT, 16gpt, 34g for Scientific Method.
MM till Rocketry is due in 4 turns at -96gpt...
irrigate tiles around Aarhus.
IBT few Celtic movement.
some aquaeducts, markets, courthouses built.
1) 1305 sell lib and uni in Arhus. Hey! 70 bucks. That will make us happy when Gandhi takes our core...
Although obviously annoyed, Gandhi seems to accept our rigorous peace conditions...
Redeclare immediately. Try a new built arty on Delhi
It's at least 2 spearmen. Now that's how we can keep track of Gandhi's units
decice not to upgrade knights for now. Rather get Rocketry in 3 turns (325g at -92gpt).
IBT Bodo finishes factory. Now bank.
2) 1310 3 arties find out: min 4 spears in Delhi. 4 Berserks may attack next turn.
Spear rushed in Arhus!
Stockholm production dropped to 99spt due to corruption
good time to build a bank there... (to not waste so many shields)
Molde starts Seti. It has got most commerce and enough production.
IBT Risor finishes commercial dock. Wow! 82 beakers!! Impressive.
3) 1315 Arhus has rushed another spear. Both vet.
4 arties discover a fifth spear in Delhi. four berserks discover 2 archers, 3 other spears.
one is lost, three hurt (3/5, 2/4, 1/5).
will get more arty to prepare!
Rocketry in 1 turn (5-7 beakers spare) at 90% (-47gpt)
Start building walls on Celtic Island.
IBT Researched Rocketry. Now Ecology (cheapest).
Internet Expansion! Some nice ocean tiles available now. All coastal cities' tiles to rearrange
Arhus rushes 3rd spear. Now size 6.
4) 1320 pollution struck twice - barely enough workers to clean it
last forestry actions in Spain.
Trade furs to Celts for 11gpt, 63g.
5 turns to ecology at 90%, -16gpt.
IBT Brennus cancels lux deal (26 gpt). We trade for 21 now. He would pay 23 for 2 luxes.
Gandhi launches an attack. A fearless spear boldly steps on Viking soil!!
5) 1325 our arty scares vet spear to 2/4. Two MP in Arhus, size 5.
after bombing 5 spears in Delhi, our arty discovers 2 swords... Makes at least 7 units there! Tough!
Our three berserks attack, killing three swords. What else is hidden in there?!?
After flight check
So Gandhi is in da house. He seems willing to take our land right now so we shall be alert.
We are one turn into Ecology which I chose because it was the cheapest tech.
I did not upgrade any knights because that would be too expensive. We need to slow down for that.
As I think we need Brennus as a friend for longer, I did not want to scare him
Here is the save
Europe is done, America, take over please
jeffelammar
Space for rent
I think we have discovered why Ghandi didn't do jack worth of research (I was expecting this). He had so many units he was being killed by unit costs.Paul#42 said:Our three berserks attack, killing three swords. What else is hidden in there?!?
Any of us given that start would have stopped building troops in favor of a Map Making b-line, but not the dependable C3C AI.
pindicator
Emperor
Nice to see the plan coming along as pre-meditated!
Two questions
1) what is the probability of Aarhus flipping back to us?
2) is our rep trashed now? And if so, how will this affect our future plans if at all?
Two questions
1) what is the probability of Aarhus flipping back to us?
2) is our rep trashed now? And if so, how will this affect our future plans if at all?
TimBentley
Deity
Seems high (over 4%?), but it would be 0% after capturing Delhi.pindicator said:
Our rep looks fine (which concurs with what I thought).
You dont have to accept a flip if it flips..pindicator said:
After bombing Gandhis first offense to red I thought about channelling it to the far north 
Maybe he will go back right now
What do you guys think, shall we let him take other cities immediately?
I have weak objections against that. We would need some more units to keep him in check. But going after Celts might draw our attention to other borders.
Also we risk that Gandhi and Brennus meet which I would like to avoid. They might talk about a long ago rop-rape and a recent breaking of a freshly sealed peace treaty.
We should keep peace with Brennus for the next 20-30 turns to keep up fast research. We will also need to keep our fishing towns for that period.
India
Bombing Arhus doesn't prevent him from launching raids. Maybe we should build a wall of Mech Infs around it.
Rather bomb Delhi and kill all units in Delhi. He will keep building units in Arhus.
research
I would like to keep up highest research, even if we have to sell a building casually to balance the deficit. I also would start to produce wealth in corrupt towns where an improvement won't finish in the next ~30 turns without rushing or engineers.
Celts
We have some luxuries he cannot pay for. Maybe we gift him one, making a dow more unlikely.
Maybe he will go back right now
What do you guys think, shall we let him take other cities immediately?
I have weak objections against that. We would need some more units to keep him in check. But going after Celts might draw our attention to other borders.
Also we risk that Gandhi and Brennus meet which I would like to avoid. They might talk about a long ago rop-rape and a recent breaking of a freshly sealed peace treaty.
We should keep peace with Brennus for the next 20-30 turns to keep up fast research. We will also need to keep our fishing towns for that period.
India
Bombing Arhus doesn't prevent him from launching raids. Maybe we should build a wall of Mech Infs around it.
Rather bomb Delhi and kill all units in Delhi. He will keep building units in Arhus.
research
I would like to keep up highest research, even if we have to sell a building casually to balance the deficit. I also would start to produce wealth in corrupt towns where an improvement won't finish in the next ~30 turns without rushing or engineers.
Celts
We have some luxuries he cannot pay for. Maybe we gift him one, making a dow more unlikely.
Nice job! I didn't think research could go so well in the MA. I'll be a bigger optimist next time.
I guess I'm still favor letting Ghandi get at least 1 city to the north immediately, even though it will affect our research. It seems to me that Indian development is the limiting factor in this game, even if we have to sacrifice a (small) bit of science to promote it. Especially now that we know Ghandi is such a war-monger. More cities=more units=faster conquest when we're ready.
Let's not bomb Aarhaus. There's a chance we'll destroy buildings. Let's not draft anything else in Ghandi's future core while we're at it.
I don't mind gifting another lux to Brennus. It'll at minimum increase his income slightly, which we can then acquire.
I don't know that I like selling buildings to keep up science, unless it's like the smart move you made in selling cultural buildings in Aarhaus before Ghandi took over. In the long run, I think the buildings will benefit us more in place. Hrmm, if we know we're going to lose science turns, how do we deal with that? Bank up some gold? Buy a lot of workers and stuff them?
I guess I'm still favor letting Ghandi get at least 1 city to the north immediately, even though it will affect our research. It seems to me that Indian development is the limiting factor in this game, even if we have to sacrifice a (small) bit of science to promote it. Especially now that we know Ghandi is such a war-monger. More cities=more units=faster conquest when we're ready.
Let's not bomb Aarhaus. There's a chance we'll destroy buildings. Let's not draft anything else in Ghandi's future core while we're at it.
I don't mind gifting another lux to Brennus. It'll at minimum increase his income slightly, which we can then acquire.
I don't know that I like selling buildings to keep up science, unless it's like the smart move you made in selling cultural buildings in Aarhaus before Ghandi took over. In the long run, I think the buildings will benefit us more in place. Hrmm, if we know we're going to lose science turns, how do we deal with that? Bank up some gold? Buy a lot of workers and stuff them?
He would be really fast with his whipping if we gave him some food - like those flood plains. Shall we?Jove said:
In C3C you will only destroy buildings if all units are redlined IIRC.Jove said:
Of course, we already had this. I forgotJove said:
Imo we got enough workers - rather bank that gold and speed up the next tech. Or speed up buildings in Spain with engineers. I switched most engineers to scientists, especially in our old world.Jove said:
In Spain I put stress on factories over libs as we won't need research (so much) when we move our capital over there. By then we can build markets and banks in our core quite fast.
pindicator said:
Breaking a fresh sealed peace treaty (without lump sum / workers / techs received) does not trash the trading or MP rep. Some say it does not even lower the betrayed's will to sign another peace treaty but my perception of that is a little different. But we won't need to sign another peace treaty
Except for one: I did not care for renewing the peace with Ottomans yet. Maybe we can (as I did once in one of my previous turnsets) make him dow on Gandhi (as part of our treaty) to prevent trades?
Hmmm, I don't know if we will need the factories in the Old World, as our military will already be dominant... Shucks, I was playing Civ4 instead of looking at the save, and now it's time to sleep. What is our science rate up to? Will we need to join a lot of workers to hit our target? I guess I wouldn't want to give up all that food until we're sure we're done with it.
I've got the save and should be able to play this evening, I think.
Is the plan to take Delhi or just kill off units there?
I'll work on researching at max. Switching to wealth in corrupt towns who won't finish building soon sounds good to me. If we can't build anything in time to take advantage of it before Ghandi takes the city, we might as well get a bit more cash out of it. Building wealth with specialists to maximize science seems like the way to go.
I'm leaning toward letting Ghandi expand slowly to get a couple of cities of our choosing. If we let him go north he won't interfere too much with our research rate, as those cities are more corrupt. If he can get a lux, that will improve his situation a bit. He's already met Otto, so the are discussing our misdeeds already, but it shouldn't be too hard to keep him from meeting Brennus. Even if we let him have a coastal city, a few ships can block any hope of contact. I'll try to remember to sell off cultural buildings right before losing a city.
Gifting a lux to the Celts sound good to me, too.
If the only uranium is with the Celts, we have some choices. We can take it from them and arrange for the Indians to take it from us. I think this might be difficult. We can let the Celts keep two sources, let them learn fission, and trade with the Indians. We can take out the Celts and gift two uranium cities to the Ottomans (who already know fission). In either of the last two cases, I think we want to make sure that the uranium cities are the only cities they have. I'm leaning toward giving the uranium to the Ottomans. This way we don't have to give the Celts any extra techs which they might use to impede our conquest of them. Gift all the necessary techs to the Ottomans for Ghandi for the great library elevator and never let the Celts and Indians meet.
Is the plan to take Delhi or just kill off units there?
I'll work on researching at max. Switching to wealth in corrupt towns who won't finish building soon sounds good to me. If we can't build anything in time to take advantage of it before Ghandi takes the city, we might as well get a bit more cash out of it. Building wealth with specialists to maximize science seems like the way to go.
I'm leaning toward letting Ghandi expand slowly to get a couple of cities of our choosing. If we let him go north he won't interfere too much with our research rate, as those cities are more corrupt. If he can get a lux, that will improve his situation a bit. He's already met Otto, so the are discussing our misdeeds already, but it shouldn't be too hard to keep him from meeting Brennus. Even if we let him have a coastal city, a few ships can block any hope of contact. I'll try to remember to sell off cultural buildings right before losing a city.
Gifting a lux to the Celts sound good to me, too.
If the only uranium is with the Celts, we have some choices. We can take it from them and arrange for the Indians to take it from us. I think this might be difficult. We can let the Celts keep two sources, let them learn fission, and trade with the Indians. We can take out the Celts and gift two uranium cities to the Ottomans (who already know fission). In either of the last two cases, I think we want to make sure that the uranium cities are the only cities they have. I'm leaning toward giving the uranium to the Ottomans. This way we don't have to give the Celts any extra techs which they might use to impede our conquest of them. Gift all the necessary techs to the Ottomans for Ghandi for the great library elevator and never let the Celts and Indians meet.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Funny, that was exactly what I was about to say.Gyathaar said:
Rather take it. Imo it makes no big difference where his capital is, but maybe he encounters some problems we don't think about. Rather take it and we will on the save side. It does not contribute too much as it won't benefit from hoover.CKS said:
Remember that he will only have his luxes locally. With our few ships I'd rather keep him from the coast. If we let him touch Osman (incense nearby) we need an rop with Osman - by hook or by crook - and isolate him that Gandhi does not finish him off by accidentCKS said:
I like that idea of "moving" the Ottomans. But wait till just before Gandhi steps on the elevator.CKS said:
Maybe after all I'm a little chicken attacking Brennus...
denyd
Emperor
It's probably a good idea to take Delhi, otherwise since Gandhi has yet to build a harbor in Delhi, he has no method of trading for luxuries or uranium since all deals involve a capital to capital connection.
We should dedicate a couple of cities to tanks (future Modern Armor) if we expect to begin chopping on Brennus in the future.
We should dedicate a couple of cities to tanks (future Modern Armor) if we expect to begin chopping on Brennus in the future.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
Paul is 100% right here.Paul#42 said:probably a good idea ?!? If this is true, it is ESSENTIAL
Besides, we really are doing Ghandi a favor by killing off the units that have been handcuffing him the whole game.
Couple other points.
1. When I last checked the save we were already cranking out a tank force. (We should keep at it)
2. We need to keep an eye on two things.
A. Ghandi's research. As we kill his units, he may accelerate his research. I don't think we are in danger here, but it would be embarassing to have him reach Education.
B. Contact. As has been pointed out we don't want Otto or Ghandi to meet Brennus and start spreading word of our perfidity. If it looks like they will meet, we need to sign a ROP with Brennus immediately.
3. Speaking of ROPs, I don't see any real reason not to go ahead and sign it now. We can start moving troops into position on Brennus's idle.
4. Question: I know there are two sources of Uranium in Celt land. Are there any on an Island that we could convince Ghandi to take. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if Ghandi had it native and we didn't have to do some sort of trade maneuver.
