SGOTM 9 - jeffelammar

CKS said:
There is a source of uranium on the very western tip of the Spanish island, but all the others are on the Celts continent. I don't know that it will be easy to get Ghandi to take, but we could try.
If it isn't hooked up, we should take measures to do so ASAP, it would be a lucky hit, but it could be depleted and show up on the homeland...
 
CKS said:
There is a source of uranium on the very western tip of the Spanish island, but all the others are on the Celts continent. I don't know that it will be easy to get Ghandi to take, but we could try.

Actually we have another source of uranium right in our spanish core. Same problem with both sources: As two cities are close to it, we would have to make one of them the new Ottoman capital and let the other not build any culture... For the other couple we would have to move one city... :(

I just realized that we also have trouble providing Gandhi with Aluminium. Our only source is located in Spain. Celts own 4 of them. So moving Osman to Spain is no solution for all our problems... :cry:
That's trouble...

Any ideas?

I don't like the idea of Celtic forces running (fast!) through our country without the chance to boot them... So let's rather wait with making rop till we want to rape them... :evil:
 
Paul#42 said:
I just realized that we also have trouble providing Gandhi with Aluminium. Our only source is located in Spain. Celts own 4 of them. So moving Osman to Spain is no solution for all our problems... :cry:
That's trouble...

As if they didn't make this hard enough :lol:

What (and this goes for the uranium too -- but why do we want Ghandi to nuke us again?) about just leaving Ghandi a town to take over after we've killed off Brennus. The AI usually goes for the path of least resistance, so wouldn't he move to take any city we purposely left unguarded after we've wiped the Celts off the map?
 
I think it's easier directing Gandhi to the Celts' sources then having Osman on our continent - but it will take more time.

Maybe we compose a mixture of both? Getting Osman ready to trade would take us at most a turnset. So we might decide this issue the turnset before elevating Gandhi...

I'm still not sure when to go for Brennus. We would spend much more time researching if he would not cover our deficit research. I think we should keep him till we nearly complete research and then wipe him out with what we accumulated till then. At best in the last turnset before elevation-day.

Research
Ecology 4 (of 5) (6933)
synthetic fibers 5 (7466)
Nuclear Power 5 (7466)
laser 5 (7466)
space flight 6 (8000)
satellites 5 (6933)
superconductor 6 (8000)
robotics 6 (8533)
makes about 32 turns left (optimistic)

So here's my (today's) suggestions for our plan:
+ Let Gandhi get some minor towns to north - not coastal I would prefer. Maybe at the incense near Osman.
+ Renew peace with Osman - sign rop and MA against Bundy ahm Gandhi. sandwich him with slaves. Exchange them when Gandhi comes close.
+ Capture delhi. build lib, uni etc there. It will be quite useful. Those arties currently in production should be enough to back up our berserks.
+ Research at max.
+ Produce tanks like mad.
+ Keep Celts nice by feeding them luxes. No rop yet.
+ In about turn 30 from now (is that my turnset again? :cool: ) we could agree on a rop, attack Brennus, finish him off.
 
I only managed a couple of turns last night, but I'm hopeful that I can finish the rest this evening. So far nothing interesting has come along. I did sign an ROP with Brennus. We don't really have any territory for him to go walking through, Paul, so maybe it won't feel too bad to you. I hadn't seen your objection when I started playing.

As Paul noted, aluminum is also a problem. There is a source of aluminum on a far southern island that we might be able to get into Indian hands, and there is a source on the Spanish island fairly close to the uranium. We were trying to avoid messy wars and get the Indians to build space ship parts by staying off their land mass; if we give them half of the Spanish island, this won't work out. We could give them all of it, or arrange a trading partner. Maybe we'll be lucky and something will jump to our continent, but my luck usually runs the other way.

I'm building some offshore platforms wherever we have or will have uncorrupted cities with lots of water.

I've started to build a some bombers. Lethal bombardment is so nice. Delhi has so many units that the bombers will complete before we can take it, and they will come in handy there.

I'd like to let Ghandi start taking some towns after we get Delhi. With two towns he could get to the dyes, but those two towns give us 100 bpt, so I'm not eager to give them up.

One thing that I hadn't thought of earlier: What about letting Ghandi head far north, with judicial guiding, and then retaking the southern cities. This gives us back our core, but it makes it more difficult to ensure he'd take Channel City when we wanted him to. We'd have to rebuild the libraries and universities. Is it worth it? I don't think so, at first glance, but I haven't really considered it.

I'm not planning on letting the Indians take any towns during my set anyway.
 
Well isn't this a nice little situation they've concocted for us.

Now I know what Klarius was refering to in his maintenence thread post

Here is my view.
1. Setting up a trading partner is problematic at best. We should do set Osman up as one but we should also prepare to give Spain to India. If we keep all of the Celtic lands and the various islands, that will keep Ghandi short of Domination.

2. I would let Ghandi strike to the north. Give him Hareid if he'll take it. I'd like to give him a place to build boats (once he has the tech). Hareid is nice because it contains his ships to the inland sea till we give him one of the canal cities.

3. I am OK with retaking cities, but I don't think we should re-take Aarhus. As CKS pointed out, it is close to Channel City, so I'd like to make sure India keeps it so it can be used to time the capture.

4. Taking Brennus: I agree with Paul. Time it to be very close in time to when we elevate Ghandi. I think that we should establish our capitol there at the same time we do the elevator. If we do a massive ROP abuse against Brennus and then Stack 20 or so MAs in either Entremont or Richborough then allow Ghandi to take Trondheim, we should get our capitol over there...
My view on the timing of this. ROP abuse at about 4 turns before Elevator. Enough time to do some mopping up, but not to dig too deeply into our pockets to replace the lost income from Brenny.

EDIT Fix some brutally obvious grammar and spelling mistakes.
 
So the plan is to gift Osman cities so that he has both an aluminum and a uranium to trade, and then massage him into swapping them with India, without letting him meet Brennus. That is, until we can coax Ghandi into building a boat and taking the resources for himself...
 
Here is the save.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Jeffelammar_SG009_AD1350_01.SAV

Short story: We got a MGL in an attack on Delhi. There are zillions of units there. Synthetic fibers is due in 4 with one turn in already.

Long version:
Turn 0: Hire some Civil Engineers, switch CC to offshore platform, start building wealth in a few places. Sign ROP with Brennus, get 2 gpt + 32 g. Gift him spices.

IBT: Renew silk trade. Indian spearman retreats. Madrid factory to airport, Carthage police station to marketplace, Trondheim artillery to bomber, Bergen artillery to offshore platform, Stockholm tank to tank, Stavanger tank to tank, New Trondheim aquaduct to harbor.

Turn 1: Tank kills spear, which in retrospect wasn’t bright.

IBT: Oslo artillery to offshore platform, Stockholm tank to tank, Hareid police station to commercial dock, Hovd market to commercial dock, New Haugesund harbor to library.

Turn 2: Bomb Delhi. There are 5 spears, more than 9 swords, and at least 2 archers. Kill three swords and get a great leader. J

IBT Pollution in CC, CC offshore platform to bomber, Reykjavik offshore platform to bomber, Stockholm tank to tank, Stavanger tank to tank, Bodo bank to commercial dock, Karasjok market to university, Karistad courthouse to university.

Turn 3: Clean up pollution, fortify MGL by Karasjok, rest berserks, move tanks, MM for shields

IBT: Ecology to Synthetic Fibers. Trondheim bomber to bomber, Bergen offshore platform to bomber, Stockholm tank to tank, Odense offshore platform to bomber, Fauske tank to factory, Keflavik harbor to courthouse, New Vadso barracks to harbor.

Turn 4: India will talk again. We don’t have to worry about them getting to education anytime soon. Bomb Delhi, kill 3 more swords, vet berserk promotes. Synthetic Fibers in 5 at -41 gpt.

IBT: Archer leaves Aarhus. Pollution at Madrid. CC bomber to commercial dock, Oslo offshore platform to artillery, Stockholm tank to tank, Stavanger tank to tank, Batsfjord marketplace to barracks.

Turn 5: Bomb archer and Delhi. Bomber kills sword, 2 berserks kill swords. 3rd berserk doesn’t attack, as it starts at 3/5.


If we are going to give Spain to India, we should rethink our building plans there.

What should we do with the MGL? Save for the palace? Build the Military Academy? Straight to an army? While there are a lot of units in Delhi, the chances of another leader before we take it are slim. On the other hand, we should be able to get another leader pretty quickly once we attack the Celts, since we’ll be attacking with tanks.
 
CKS said:
Turn 1: Tank kills spear, which in retrospect wasn’t bright.
Did he go back or did he pillage our improvements?
CKS said:
What should we do with the MGL? Save for the palace? Build the Military Academy? Straight to an army?
We should build an (empty) army at once. We might get another one.
(You should always use your leader before your next elite attacks if possible)
 
I'd go for an army (if we go with my next sentence, this would mean 2 armies in 8 turns, rather than 2 armies in 9 turns if we rushed military academy). Stockholm could build military academy in 4 turns and 4-turn armies after that. The Ottomans would give 5gpt and 79g for our WM.
 
TimBentley said:
The Ottomans would give 5gpt and 79g for our WM.

That's quite impressive.
One thing I'm never really sure about is whether AI can make contact by seeing some unknown AI on a traded worldmap. Or did we already sell our wm to Celts?

We could also trade some minor tech (ecology) to them to get that money.
 
Looks fine. As for the leader, I think I'd save him for now. We don't really need an army and he would be very effective for a replacement FP or some other important building in the new world.

If this was earlier in the game I might want an Army, but right now we aren't likely to get another leader till we go after the Celts.

Roster
Jove
pindicator
TimBentley
Paul#42
CKS
denyd <== UP
jeffelammar <== On deck...
 
Paul#42 said:
One thing I'm never really sure about is whether AI can make contact by seeing some unknown AI on a traded worldmap.

I'm pretty sure that they can't. I'm sure I've sold maps and still had contacts to trade.
 
I agree. The Ottomans would have to make contact with a Celtic unit to get to know each other. Maps isn't enough. Btw, sorry I started the rumor that they'd met, I don't know why I though that...

As for the leader, it seems inevitable to me that we'll get another vs. Celts, so an army would be fine. But then, there is an element of chance in that.
 
Back to me already I see - I got it and will start tonight if we're ready

Ok, let's discuss what's going on and what to do with that leader.

First, what's going on:

1. India has been released from his island hideaway
2. We are in the process of capturing Delhi
3. Research is progressing as fast as possible
4. We are weak in military against the Celts (this still scares me)

Next, what are my plans

1. Complete Synthetic Fibers and start research Space Flight (try for 4 turns)
2. Finish acquiring Delhi
3. Begin mass production of Modern Armor in our core
4. Have Military Academy city (Stockholm?) start popping out armies
5. Continue adding improvements to our new (Spanish) lands).

Where we are going:

1. Let India expand to the north guiding his way with undefended cities
2. Research all required SS techs
3. Evacuate Channel City and invite Gandhi to ride the elevator
4. Continue to encourage Indian expansion via troop evacuations
5. Once India has 8-10 cities, sacrifice un-fortified warrior on grassland to Indian War Elephant to initiate Indian Golden Age
6. On Indian has reduced us in size, begin war with Celts via ROP rape using
MA Armies on Celts Metropolis

Now about that Great Leader, if an Army is what we want why not just build one in Stockholm. I'd like to hold on to him to move the new capital to Madrid once we're ready to leave the homeland behind.
 
Only thing I think you missed is that we may have to give Spain to India, so we probably want to put our new capitol in Celtic lands.

Because of that, I think we want to time out ROP abuse of Brennie for about 3 turns before we let Ghandi take Trondheim. That could be after Channel City or before.

We want to be able to do the ROP Abuse and then group 20 Modern armor into our desired capitol. That would guarentee the correct palace jump, making it so we don't have to use the leader to jump the palace.

As for the leader, I don't really know what is best. I don't think we really need to use it for an army, but I don't know what would be better.
 
I'm looking at my schedule and will only have about 2 hours to play tonight and I'm booked on Tuesday night (Valentine's Day). I'll check back in about 5 hours to see if Jeff wants to pick up and play first.

I'm also looking for ideas on what to do with the MGL.
 
denyd said:
I'm looking at my schedule and will only have about 2 hours to play tonight and I'm booked on Tuesday night (Valentine's Day).

Oh sure, just rub it in for us single folk! :lol:

Nah, I got myself plans too: an anti-Valentine's Day party! :D
 
I can play tonight, so I'll take it and leave it for Deny do take after his "sappy love" holiday. ;)

Have a great valentine's day.
 
The Save File

I had the time, so I played 10, there really wasn't that much to do anyway.

Turn 0 - Preflight
First thing I notice is lack of Airports (or Airfields)
I'm going to setup so we can start airlifting our army to Celtic lands.
Do the Map trade to Osman. (5gpt, 79g + WM), and Yes, Gandi and Osman still don't know Brennus.
Make some minor MM changes...

IBT
Redlined indian Archer belines for open city. Will have to destroy or re-route.
Stockholm -> Military Academy...


Turn 1 - 1355
Form an army with the Leader and ship it towards Celtic Lands.
Bombard Delhi. Kill 4 Swords with a combo of Zerks and Bombers...Think we're getting there. Top unit is 2/3 Spear.
Fire some Civil Enginners, Hire tax collectors got us to only -9 gpt.

Turn 2 - 1360
Not a whole lot. Kill 4 Spears with Bombers.


Turn 3 - 1365
Kill 4 Swords, 1 spear and 1 archer at Delhi.
Drop Research to 80%, MM so we get max $$$

IBT
Ottomans and India sign a trade embargo against us :rotfl:
Synth Fibers -> Space Flight

Turn 4 - 1370
Bomb 4 Swords to death, Then take Delhi with a 5/5 Zerk killing an Archer.
Micro-manage to get Space in 5.
Too bad about Fibers. 100 shield tanks were more efficient to build than 120 shield armors. Oh well.

IBT
Deal with Brenny expires.

Turn 5 - 1375
Sell Atomic Theory to Brennus for 93gpt, 11g, WM, wines, wool

I actually have time tonight, so I'm going to go ahead and play the next 5 too...
MM Stockholm for food. It can do 5 turn armies at a food surplus and 4 at a deficit. Back and forth between the two modes should be stable.


Turn 6 - 1380
Fill up first Modern Armor Army with 3 MAs. Send it into Celt land...

Turn 7 - 1385
Keep Airlifting more Units to Celts.

Turn 8 - 1390
Micro manage down to the line on Space Flight...

IBT
Space Flight -> Satillites (get Apollo popup)

Turn 9 - 1395
MM for Sats in 4, but we don't have the $$ to do it. I'll revisit next turn to see if we can get some $$$.

Turn 10 - 1400
Oh well, I don't see how to maintain the 4 turn research. I've dialed it back to 5 turn at a signifcant profit.

NOTES
There is now an airport in Birka.
There are 3 airstrips on the homeland. Two on the mountain ring for India's Sea and the other near Kasan an Ulaanbattar.
We now have 1 Infantry Army, 1 Modern Armor Army and an empty Army that will land in our Celtic Holdings next turn.
Military count...21 Tanks, 15 Modern Armor. (And a few Mech Inf)
The MA army is scouting Entremont.
Watch Stockholm carefully it is teetering right at the edge of 100 shields.
I have units situated to hopefully steer the Indians north, they seemed obsessed with south.

I have most specialists on either Beakers or $$$ right now. I don't think that any more buildings will come on line soon enough to really help. Feel free to change that if you think it would be better to build some buildings.

Delhi should be built up. With all that coast, it should be able to produce some good beakers for us. Civ Assist claims that the flip risk is offset by 1 unit, so I have the Zerks in there as MP.


Interesting Note: Techs. I've never seen a game go this long without someone going for Printing Press...
 
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