SGOTM 9 - Wacken

[gozpel]

Copernicus (Trondheim) can be built 3 turns faster if we let the town borrow shields from Copenhagen. Copenhagen in turn can borrow a couple of tiles from Oslo. This way we can start caravels quicker in Trondheim.

Birka can build uni next turn by letting some food go and use mountains, then it can use another fp, which Stockholm doesn't need anymore.

Vadso can grow again if we switch some tiles around in the surrounding cities.

Too many towns set on wealth, we have 1/3 of the continent improved and only 34 workers and some slaves. We need more workers and we should let towns grow, so when we have to use scientists, we will have the population. And we'll need a bunch of workers to rail soon too.

I wonder if we should open up the spots in the mountain range, so the other AI's can settle and meet India? If we have the warriors standing next to the hills, we can "choose" what civ we let drop off a settler there. I would like all 3 civs get one spot each, that should make it easier for Gandhi to get Writing/MapMaking.

18 turns left on research in MA, we will have to gift Ottos to the next age when we're there, so we can choose what tech we start in IA. And Wacken was right, I think we're under 120 turns to get all techs required, that is if we can keep up 4 turn research. Possibly less than so, if Ottos get a good tech next age.

 

[AlanH]

Please read an important addition to the rules HERE

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Copernicus (Trondheim) can be built 3 turns faster if we let the town borrow shields from Copenhagen. Copenhagen in turn can borrow a couple of tiles from Oslo. This way we can start caravels quicker in Trondheim.

Birka can build uni next turn by letting some food go and use mountains, then it can use another fp, which Stockholm doesn't need anymore.

Vadso can grow again if we switch some tiles around in the surrounding cities.

Too many towns set on wealth, we have 1/3 of the continent improved and only 34 workers and some slaves. We need more workers and we should let towns grow, so when we have to use scientists, we will have the population. And we'll need a bunch of workers to rail soon too.

I wonder if we should open up the spots in the mountain range, so the other AI's can settle and meet India? If we have the warriors standing next to the hills, we can "choose" what civ we let drop off a settler there. I would like all 3 civs get one spot each, that should make it easier for Gandhi to get Writing/MapMaking.

18 turns left on research in MA, we will have to gift Ottos to the next age when we're there, so we can choose what tech we start in IA. And Wacken was right, I think we're under 120 turns to get all techs required, that is if we can keep up 4 turn research. Possibly less than so, if Ottos get a good tech next age.

Sorry for my lack of micromanagement in those cities.

Indeed, we might want a bit more workers. I wanted to keep it a bit down though to prevent new upkeep costs, as i said, only grassland is usefull now, so there is not a lot of hury in working the plains. We should indeed have many more workers by the time RR is available.
For now, i would say build more workers, but do so with care not to create big upkeep costs.

I dont like the plan to allow settlements on the mountain circle.
If we quickly destroy all their units as soon as we enter the Industrial Age, they will pay no support and only possibly 4 upkeep max (barrack, granary, temple, aquaduct) This should easilly allow India to get map making in the 100 turns of time they have. If we allow settlements, they can either get still nothing, or way too much.

We must simply keep their unit count down. I suppose, as soon as we have replacable parts, we can use artillery with its range from our land to redline units. This should allow us to know their unitcount so that we can destroy all but 1 of them. Until replacable, we must do it carefully, watching archers and damaged units to see when to stop attacking. In the 160 turns that are now past, they should have had about 900 total shields of production. Substract buildings and we have an idea of what army they should have.

Of course we must gift and trade the Ottomans. That is the reason they are still there.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Please read an important addition to the rules HERE

What will this do for our plans?
They will not need to do anything on their island city. Let them rot without writing Lets keep those units alive.
We must gift them a city with every building available. So they can only build units. (Will any buildings be lost when gifting instead of conquering?)

Also little addition:
-We should NOT research medication ever at all. We either want to provide them cities with hospitals, or not even the ability to build hospitals. Since the cities don't have space to be bigger, the lastis best.

 

[Xevious]

Hey guys,

I had to work tonight, and I'm on call tomorrow, but hopefully I can get to it tomorrow.

 

[Xevious]

Well, it's been a busy weekend, and I'm just now getting to open the save and start planning my turnset. I'd like to throw a few things out there and see what you guys think.

The Celts are the furthest in science next to us, building Copernicus and Sistine, but the don't have Engineering yet so it will be a while before they can start Leo's. I think we should switch to Copernicus in Copenhagen, which would finish in 10 turns or so. Switch Trondheim to Leo's as prebuild for Newtons. (I assume we want to do Magnetism to allow ocean trade/movement and then TOG next for Newton.)

Are we going for Military Tradition or skipping this to get to MA as fast as possible? As far as the Celts are in science, it might be good to ally America and Spain against them. This would slow the other continent down. Looks like Celts and America have been fighting some already as Philadelphia is a Celtic City.

What are we doing with Otto? Leaving him on the tundra? Moving him to an island?

I don't think I'll be playing tonight. I would like to play my set though, and plan to do so tomorrow night. I realize I've had this for way longer than I should. I ask you to bear with me please.

 

[gozpel]

Alright! I've been bubbling for days now to sort things out.

First: I want that darn city on the island (said that for centuries/millenia now) so we can re-locate Ottomans. Fix that and take the tundra town and the continent is ours.

We should build a city in the mountain range (NE) so we can give that to India, when the time comes. We should even build on all 3 spots (as I surmised before) Who the heck cares about a shield loss here and there? Or a loss of a coin?

These towns could easily be the target for the Indian forces, when we want it to happen.

We need a LOT more workers.

Wacken only looks at requiered techs needed, this game is more than that. We need to make the cities "ready" for an Indian invasion.

I have a plan and always had, it's been skimmed by every turn. But if Wacken makes another defensive move I scream out loud!!!

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Why fur ****s sake would we settle on those damn 3 spots !
It is useless.

We must gift them a town since they will not come anyway.
We gift them a good town, and the other good ones will be close for them to capture. There is no reason to take those crappy tiles.

Swiching the wonder builds sounds good.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Btw, goz, started on cotm19 already ?

 

[Xevious]

The SAVE.

450AD(0) Switch all wealth cities with 4+ food to workers. Switch Tronheim to Leo, Copenhagen to Copernicus. Do a lot of MM around the core.

460AD(1) More MM.

470AD(2) Physics->Magnetism@90%(-9gpt). Oslo:Barracks->Berserk. Birka:University->Berserk.

480AD(3) Bergen:Berserk->Knight. Drop Sci->80%. Hurry Aqueduct in Stavanger.

490AD(4) Stavanger:Aqueduct->Harbor. Shortrush Market in Reykjavik with courthouse. Hurry worker in Edrine (+7 food).

500AD(5) Celts have Music Theory. Spain suddenly has Theology, Chivalry, and Education.

510AD(6) Magnetism->TOG@90%(+3gpt). Reykjavik:Market->Harbor. Trade 5 luxes to Spain for furs, ROP and MA vs Celts. Manage scientists to get to 80% science.

520AD(7) Hurry settler in Risor.

530AD(8) Oslo:Berserk->Knight. Birka:Knight->Knight.

540AD(9) Reykjavik:Harbor->Knight. Stavanger:Harbor->Courthouse. Celtic galley approaching south side. Move knight that way. Celts have learned Engineering.

550AD(10) TOG->Metallurgy. Copenhagen:Copernicus (GA STARTS) -> Heroic Epic. Switch Trondheim to Newton (due in 2). Drop sci->60%.

The workers still need to be moved and I haven't done any MM this turn. With GA starting there will probably be a lot to do. We are at war with Celts still, and allied with Spain. I think a war on America first will be easiest, though going after Celts first might be even better. I've started building knights and built 2 berserks. There are a few galleons due to finish soon. With the extra cash coming in from GA we can start rushing things. Newtons might let us drop science a bit more. Watch that celtic galley down south of Trondheim.

I think a quick run to Steam (12 turns away if we beeline for it) is best, followed by Military Tradition (using gold from GA to upgrade the knights).

 

[Wotan]

OK, looks good.

Will probably play tomorrow evening. I will have a look at the save and post any plans/ideas before playing.

 

[Xevious]

I'm surprised to see no comments. Yes, I know the holidays are fast approaching. Anyway, I wanted to discuss a few things.

I started Heroic Epic in Copenhagen on my last turn. I think it will be a good thing to get some more leaders on the next continent both for armies, and to make palace jumping easier. If we can get a leader early we could skip military tradition saving 4 turns of research.

Does anyone have any idea if NATIONAL wonders are destroyed when a city is gifted away?

I only built a couple Berserks, but it is probably better to build quite a few more and take coastal cities first, allowing our knights to land and move on the same turn.

I forest chopped a couple of the settlers during my set to get them out faster. Theres a few places where we can forest chop workers also. I had 8 or 10 workers finish on my last turn so we have quite a compliment now. The GA will help pay for these. By the end of the GA I expect us to have a solid foothold on the other continent.

Remember, we are at war with Celts, and allied with Spain, so America/Celts are first target. America has gems that we could use. Might be good to build an embassy in America and see what they've got. SPAIN had around 7 pikes and an MI in their capital when I built the embassy there. We really need to get ahold of the country before they get to gunpowder if we plan to do it with knights only.

 

[Wotan]

I haven't had time to open the save yet. Will do so tonight and post my comments before playing.

AFAIK, "national" wonders are lost when a city change ownership.

A few more Berserks will probably help us land. Taking a few locations in the first wave and then jump along the coast taking cities.

 

[Offa]

Re the no comments: I am heavily imbroiled in a battle against the prng in cotm19: a battle which I may well lose. I will find it very tricky to spare time for other games if I am to have any chance to submit a (crummy) result in cotm19. I have no chance of getting a good score, but have played for a long time just to give up.

After cotm19 and the two civ3 SGs I plan to switch to civ4 or maybe give up altogether for a while.

 

[Wotan]

Ok, have had a quick look at the save now.

1. techs Metallury -> Banking -> Steam
1a. Do we gift Otto into the IA when Banking is ours?

If so I have a few turns to set up a location on the island and hopefully use that in the trade for their IA tech.

We have a ROP with Spain, right? (forgot to check that) Should I start sending Knights to Spain? And use them to start taking Celt locations or wait for a build up to RoP rape Spain?

 

[Xevious]

Yes we have ROP with Spain, but I would prefer to take over Celts before taking Spain. Celts are bigger and researching faster.

 

[Wotan]

OK, will play tonight and focus on buildup and aggressive action vs. Celts (if possible).

EDIT: Not able to finish my turnset tonight, will finish it tomorrow. Promise...

EDIT2: Still a few turns to go... But we are in no hurry, are we?

 

[gozpel]

Hurry? Oh yes, we are always in a hurry....Well, not in a hurry to complete this though. Take your time Wotan and just make it.

Hey Wacken, I started the game quite early, but got stuck up with stuff (back problems and teenage duaghter problems) And then this damn X.mas preiod, that just drives me crazy.

So I won't be able to finish the SID-game, I only have a save for 1000BC and it's about 29 towns with 48 pop, some 15 workers and all contacts. (edit - I have 4 settlers to go to, where to?)

Someone will have to make a map for us to make it equal, mate.

 

[gozpel]

Well, I better mention the crap:

I went through a 2 hr surgery yesterday to burn off some nerves in my back. It did nothing.

In two weeks I will know more (second surgery)

 

[gozpel]

Hold on, Wotan!

Small wonders are definitely deleted!

What else do I have to say: Erh, pretty much nothing.