SGOTM3 Rome - Team Bugsy

[denyd]

I was thinking about our position (it's not hopeless yet) and we've got 6 4-Legion Armies and once we clean up the south (Buffalo) and east (2 French, 1 Russian & 2 Greek cities), if we heal them fully they should be able to head north together and we should be able to roll over everything in our path, if we get there before infantry arrive (then our goose is cooked). Once the east is secure, we've got about 15 cats that can accompany the armies. We should be able to keep chopping up the attacks from the north & northeast with the cats & legions that are there, though we might lose a city here or there to a cavalry SOD. The key in those spots is city walls, catapults and 2-3 defenders with reinforcements available. Be careful to defend the iron and try to hook up a second source just in case.

As for research we're about 15 turns from feudalism. What next? Engineering would allow faster interal movement or Monotheism to lead us to Chivalry if we want knights. Once we get feudalism, we won't be able to build anymore legions (MDI & pikes from then on). Normally, I would have slipped in a library or two during my set, but what good is a library if you lose the city.

Good luck G-Man

EDIT: BTW, I was not contacted by any of the eastern AI except India and swapped TM's with Gandhi. When is the next war declaration?

 

[grahamiam]

one thing we seem to be forgetting here is that we can renegociate peace with the civ's we are not currently at war with. when you do this, they will accept gpt for thier tech's. imho, we need any tech we can get right now. libraries are ok as they will expand our borders, giving us some room for healing. however, with the advent of cav, this game is ready to take a turn. we really need to disconnect the french horses if we can.

are mdi's active in this one or were they turned off like in sgotm2?

 

[denyd]

I didn't want to contact the Aztecs or Iroquois, in hopes I wouldn't start the clock on declaring on them. I met with India most every turn to sell our TM for their TM + 1g.

Just a very future concern. The Aztecs are going to be a real challenge. With the current land split on our continent, I can see us eventually slowly marching to continental dominance, but what are we going to do on the other island????

 

[grahamiam]

india's down to 4 cities so maybe they'll go "poof" before our gpt deals end with them. actually, if r&l met them, i should probably declare soon. i think we had a long delay in meeting them so, in reality, thier 20t wait time probably already expired.

 

[RowAndLive]

It probably did, but not for any apparent effect. I'd really hope that M-B wouldn't deprive us of the variant for a small slip, when our intent is pure. The last I looked (from minimaps), India was down to 1 city. If they have 4 now, that's a change. Regarding Japan and the Aztecs, let's worry about then when we get there.

IIRC, MDI are 4-3-1, so we'd be paying for Chiv only to add 1 to offense and 1 to defense (pikes) on our foot units. I'd say skip it, except that I think we really need the knights. Then again, we could save 1 step on getting cav. I guess I have no preference, given the comments above.

 

[grahamiam]

It probably did, but not for any apparent effect. I'd really hope that M-B wouldn't deprive us of the variant for a small slip, when our intent is pure. The last I looked (from minimaps), India was down to 1 city. If they have 4 now, that's a change. Regarding Japan and the Aztecs, let's worry about then when we get there.

i seriously doubt that. we've been warring the whole time, which was the intent. it's not like we've gained any sort of advantage from not declaring, esp. considering that the aztec's have yet to land anything of note and india is so tiny. i can declare on them during my 1st turn if we all decide that it's the proper course of action.

IIRC, MDI are 4-3-1, so we'd be paying for Chiv only to add 1 to offense and 1 to defense (pikes) on our foot units. I'd say skip it, except that I think we really need the knights. Then again, we could save 1 step on getting cav. I guess I have no preference, given the comments above.

MDI's are 4.2.1 so we gain an attack and lose a defensive point wrt Legeons. we still need to progress up the tech tree and we need muskets to help hold on to our assets. however, imho, without knights, we will be runover soon as the retreating cav/knights will start reappearing with newly built units, allowing the AI so gradually increase the number of attacking units till we can't cope. sorry for the depressing post but we didn't take her out early enough and we are paying for it (not a criticism, just an observation, as i don't think we did anything particularly wrong except lose the GLib race).

if we can eliminate France's horse supply and cutoff Paris from the rest of the empire, we may be able to bring her to her knees and turn this on them.

 

[denyd]

Actually MDI are 4-2-1 (better offense, worse defense and cost 10 more than Legions) and come with Feudalism and I thought about waiting to fill the latest army with them, but decided that we are better off getting our pillagers out there right away. The only real reason left for Chivalry would be knights, but MDI hit as hard (no retreat though) and would move with the Armies at the same speed (besides we have no uprade gold anyway). I'm assuming our research path is Engineering->Invention->Gunpowder->Metallurgy->Cavalry (that could take us 100-150+ turns at the current pace), so we might want to slip in a library build where possible.

I can confirm that India is a OCC and declaring on them really has no impact. They were ahead only Feudalism (no Monotheism or Engiineering) & Republic, but had no interest in selling it. Only Greece is still AA and I'd like to finish them off before they have a chance to move up. Actually, except for a couple of Cossacks, Russia looks pretty weak at the moment. Babylon is probably the toughest AI left on the island. Once Buffalo is gone, we can concentrate on the east (Greeks and a couple of AI colonies) before turning our offensive might loose on France, England & Russia. We should be able to backfill the south and east from future settlers.

Edit: X-Post with G-Man: We've got an army heading that way and a couple of horsies soon to catch up to it to serve as the pillagers. The French Cavalry have been 1's & 2's so far. Germany/America are still sending knights while France, England & Russia using Cavalry/Cossacks. Babylon sent 3 Cavalry early, but nothing but LB the last 5+ turns. We've yet to see any non-LB SOD from anyone yet. I think it's probably because we've been at war with them for so long, they never had a chance to collect a significant number of troops and have only building & sending for 1000 years.

 

[RowAndLive]

I agree with declaring on India right away. It also sets our point for the next declaration, be it Aztecs or Iroquois.

Knights are still a good 40-60 turns away for us. We may not have to worry about it at all. Also, with the few horses we've got, and the fact that they'll be out pillaging, we won't have to worry about upgrades much. Let's pursue Chivalry, and see if we can pull off Denyd's 6 army invasion. I'm very tempted to suggest moving 4 of the armies on the offensive now, with one on defense for the core, and one to clean out the S and E. We need to get started definitely. If I hadn't screwed up on losing that legion with the Eagles (they were forted, that's why I missed the move...), then Paris would've been disconnected a long time ago.

 

[grahamiam]

Preflight check: wow! Latest I’ve been researching a 1st tier MA tech in almost a year oh, this hurts so good and I almost play in C3C

I don’t see MDI’s on the tech tree, so I assume those are not present.

Oh yeah, I do bad things.

Turn research to zero to see we make +26gpt with 43g in the bank. Start contacting our new friends

Note that India only has Fuedalism, nothing else.
Contact Iroquois, renegociate peace for Mono, giving them 18gpt and 43g. note the date is 850AD
Contact India, sell them Mono, getting Fued and 8g.
Declare war on India.
We can’t seem to do any research right now due to the payment to the Iroquois, so I fix that by declaring on the Iroquois as well. @bugs, you can forget the tracker, we're officially at war with everyone we know

Set research to Chivalry @ 20%, our maximum +gpt research we can do atm. Due in 22T @+2gpt

Turn on hyperspeed.

IBT: German’s want to talk but I send them away.
Kill some cav, lose the Army in Lunacantorum, and then an elite Legion in Tarentum. Defend against a couple of German knights.


T1: 860AD Destroy Buffalo.
Ceaser’s Savages retreats 1 Russian Knight near Nicomedia.
Change The Gap to a temple so we can expand our borders a little.
Glory of Rome and accompanying Legion continue N, getting joined by a horse.
The Eagles and Machine group rests for healing this turn.
Elite Legion kills redlined Cav near Tarentum

IBT: Send the Americans away. Lose the elite Legion after he retreats 1 cav.

T2: 870AD Found Nicolopolis, redline a German knight, losing a Legion, and then mis-click a horseman near Antium. Kill it with a Legion from The Gate.
Greece only has republic over us so I don’t really see a threat from there. Therefore, I move the Eagles and Red Machine towards the French, with the Eagles retreating a Russian Knight.
Turn off research for one turn as I note we can get Chivalry in 12T @ -5gpt instead of 20T @ +10gpt. We have 29g in the bank so this will give us enough to research it in 12 @ max.

IBT: Lots of tenuous holds but we don’t lose anything.

T3: 880AD Reset sci slider to 30%, Chivalry in 12T @ -3gpt. Found Londinium and Eburacum
Leave Aesonesium a little exposed, moving 3 Legions and 3 Cat’s towards Samarra.
With the 2 new towns, we can get Chivalry in 10T vs 12T @40% (-3gpt)

T4: 890AD sorry, too caught up in stuff. Army’s are pillaging, looks like France is importing her horses so we have to cutoff the capitol.

T5: 900AD

T6: 910AD Kills are outnumbering losses by about 2 to 1. Have 3 Legions, 3 cats, and 2 horses bothering Samerria, killing 2 cav and retreating 1.

T7: 920AD Kill a couple of Cav’s and redlined muskets. Destroy mountain road from Samerria.

IBT: Aztecs complete JS Bachs

T8: 930AD Death in the South Army is finally healed and is now moving up.

T9: 940AD Kill more stuff, lose a couple of Legions. Pillaging was slowed down in the N because we did not load an extra horse with the Machine and Eagles. Eagles are coming home to pick up a horsy.

T10: 950AD Hippo riots (damn). Death in the South Army kills a musket protecting an English settler to our SE.

Notes: 1. The attacks on Lunacantorium and Nicomedia are constant. Also, every cav unit is using the mountain W of the horse tile N of Nicomedia as a gateway to attack Byzantium. I have 2 Legions there now that should be fortified next turn.
2. An Iroquois galley is trolling around our south quarters.
3. I have a settler not moved yet NW of Aesonesium. I was going move it to the hill tile to it’s north. This is incredibly aggressive but I think many Byz cav’s will die attacking that spot. Rush some walls when you can.
4. Chivalry due in 4T @-10gpt. I highly recommend we keep this rate up. We lose units and gain towns all the time so it is not a problem.
5. 2 pillaging armys are near Paris. Please cut off the capitol from the world before you start going after all the food tiles. I think France is importing her horses and cutting off the capitol will automatically end the deal.
6. Our core could use some more work. We have citz working unroaded tiles in the core. Migrate about 3 workers N to gradually take care of this. We need the cash to research stuff.
7. I have cultural improvements being built so we can push back our borders and force units to move further to heal.
8. 2 settlers are headed to the SE. They should be used to secure the blank area. However, 1 more settler would be nice to have so we can settle on the gold hill between Gonzo and Eburacum.

 

[grahamiam]

note, i missed something. i was ready to shut down the computer tonight and i had a look at the F4 screen. Seems like we are not at war with the Aztecs. Not sure when we met them but we may need to declare on them soon. I have not introduced formal relations with them yet so maybe we're ok.

 

[alerum68]

Tough luck loosing the army, but we'll get another one soon. Good turns besides that.

Denyd
G-man
Alerum
Bede
R & L
Bugs

Appears I'm up. I'm praying I don't loose this one on my watch. nah... couldn't... to many cities for that. Right? Anyway, advice before I tackle this one tommorow? Seems like it's going ot be a tough nut to crack, and not getting easier.

 

[grahamiam]

considering that the army only had 2 or 3hp's when i got him, plus there were 3 cav's right next to it, and it was in a city, i'd say it was pretty much doomed can't win them all, though.

as far as strategy goes, we need to relieve the pressure from the E side of the core still. There's an army in Nicomedia and another coming up from the south. use them to raze and replace Besancon. Then use them to destroy Greece. It will be tough going and you will probably not get it all done but as long as you get it started, Bede can finish it.

Others things were listed at the bottom of my thread. Let the Eagles heal to full strength in the gate, then take them and a horse (or knight ) plus 7 or 8 legions, and start razing French towns. It would also be nice if you could raze the Babylonian town to NW. you'll need a lot of cats to do it as there's at least 2 muskets in the town.

 

[RowAndLive]

@G - Relations hadn't been opened with the Aztecs yet, and I believe that Denyd just started the Iroquois. I'll try to read your post this AM.

@Bede - Did you post the summary yet? I'm anxious to read the spoiler, and see where the others went right. From the discussion in the maintenance thread, it sounds like Wonders were the key, i.e. how early they got their first GL.

 

[Bede]

Working on the summary. Finish tonight. Got distracted by broken computer.

 

[denyd]

Nice work G-Man.

Sorry about that army I had a choice of leaving him out in the open (with 4hp) or moving him into the city and hoped the walls might offer some additional protection.

I agree with cleaning up the eastern front and cutting off Paris from the world. Not seeing any more French Cavalry would be fine with me.

The only off island AI that I contacted was India. So as far as I know, the clock on the Aztecs hasn't started yet (no contact, no start of clock right??).

The Ravenna settler should probably go SE to fill in the remaining space SE of Gonzomonium. The Veii settler should probably go east to be ready to fill in for Besanacon. We'll need a couple more settlers to fill in where Greece & Yakustk is. It will be nice to be able to bring all those catapults from the south to the front once we secure those lands.

 

[grahamiam]

The Ravenna settler should probably go SE to fill in the remaining space SE of Gonzomonium. The Veii settler should probably go east to be ready to fill in for Besanacon. We'll need a couple more settlers to fill in where Greece & Yakustk is. It will be nice to be able to bring all those catapults from the south to the front once we secure those lands.

there are 2 settlers near Ravenna so you get to pick another spot

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Whew!!

Doing a great job dodging bullets, guys.

If I don't volunteer to write the spoiler Bugsy will probably do it for me, so I'll volunteer. Will be done by late tonight.

I wouldn't do that to you my friend. Although your writing is head and shoulders above mine. Must be all that time in the abbey with your advisors

 

[denyd]

That's great. We should probably start collecting settlers for the east. Once that's painted red. We can turn our attention to Joanie. By then all she should be adding are Spearmen & Longbows (let's get their before riflemen show up). Once we start taking from the French core, this might become a steamroller effect if we can back fill with cities as we move forward.

 

[grahamiam]

@alerum-> looking at the map, it appear Veii needs to be MM'd to be brought up to 5fpt. sorry for leaving that open.

edit: and luna should switch from a pike to a legion

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think Besancon is the next strategic raze and replace city. We are really on a good role with building cities. They will help with research. When time permits we'll need to drop a library or two in our core. I think we should make a bee line to Mil Tradition after chivalry.

We'll want to plant a city or two in our far southeast to claim that iron and prevent further AI expansion there. For the first time in a long time, I think this game might be won.