SGOTM3 Rome - Team Bugsy

[Sir Bugsy]

Nice opening Denyd.

I think we will actually want to start exploring here soon, probably by the end of G-man's turns. We will want to get the AI on a war footing as soon as possible. Need to plan on an archer rush as soon as we meet someone. Nail them early. I think our first leader should be an army.

 

[RowAndLive]

OK, settle NNNE. You know, it could be that M-B actually gave us a really good start just because of the difficulty of the variant. Then again, to those teams with experienced AW players, this shouldn't be bad at all. It's better to build a little toward the enemy than to have him hit your capital on the front line, and do any pillaging or interdiction damage to your biggest producer.

Yes, I did specify PTW. I agree that C3C wouldn't make sense. Again, i'm thinking for a case where we need to build a jungle city, and get it running quicker. It is for specific use.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

That river to the north is going to be a very nice front. I would plant cities on brown, blue and white dots as soon as is practical. The river and the hills will make for great defensive positions. We might want to pop another worker soon, just to start a strategic road network.

So let's see, we need a worker, a few settlers, a bunch of archers... all right now. That's why this game is so interesting.

 

[RowAndLive]

Perhaps move the black dot 1 SW? would want to verify that red dot is coastal.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I was thinking that black dot would be on the same side of the river with Rome. I think yellow dot stinks after some thought. And yes we will want to confirm that red dot is coastal. If it is on a river, yellow dot should probably be 2 NW. Another good location is 2 NW of red dot... also on a river. With all these rivers we shouldn't ever have to build an aqueduct in our core.

Depending on what we find beyond it. White dot may be a good location for a Great Library pre-build.

 

[denyd]

I'd like to get 1 more archer out before starting a settler and that settler should probably go whereever we can get the most shields.

Just to start a discussion on city placement. Since this is PTW, I'd like to take advantage of RCP and shoot for a 4/7 ring set. I've found that an inner ring of 3 is too close (unless going for 100K). A distance 5 ring is ok, but takes longer to set up and is generally better suited to large/huge maps. As for a second ring at 7, that normally works well, though 8 is just as good. Whichever gets more cities on rivers and with resources is probably the best choice.

It seems that production and resources are going to be the key to this game. We should probably try to hit our first opponent with 6-7 Vet Archers, taking all but a final city. Then grow and trade as fast as possible until we reach the 16 turn mark of the war, then start to finish him off while repositioning the troops for #2. Try to time the first kill so that the troops are in place to hit #2.

 

[grahamiam]

do we need Rome to get bigger than size 3 right now? as i see it, i should probably do 2 archers and a settler (total of 9 turns of production and we'll be 1 turn till growth) and settle on brown since it will only take 1 tile to road to get there.

the other option is to switch to a granery now (8T) and then build a settler (4T) then an archer (4T) but this doesn't work out quite as nice and carries high risk.

if the 1st layout is agreeable, then i'll probably move the worker N 2x to get the road setup and to start working the other BG for the next town.

edit: x-post will review. i don't mind 3 RCP but can look for better land during my turns

 

[Sir Bugsy]

G-man - I think you are right about 2 archers and a settler. I think the granary right now is a bit of a risk. That's a long time to tie up our capitol without military production.

@ Denyd - I think you are right about a 4 RCP ring. Moving yellow dot 2 NW would fit in there. A little early to say about a 7 RCP ring, but I think it is probably a good idea to plan on one.

 

[denyd]

I think we'll also want specialized cities.

Here's my plan:
Rome with it's barracks for attack troops (slip in a settler here and there)
City #2 with a granary for settlers
City #3 with a barracks for city defenders & attack troops
City #4 with a granary for workers
City #5 with a temple for Great Library
City #6 with a barracks for attack troops

If we can somehow wipe out all the AI in one direction, that would be the best course of action. Then we could settle that direction worrying only about barbarians until map making is discovered.

 

[RowAndLive]

I have no problems with the 2 archers first if the team agrees, but would prefer to see a second city sooner, and brown is workable, even if I prefer blue, but distance 4 sounds better, so we'll need some exploration first.

By stringing out the first (& subsequent) wars, we're going for the "milk" victory, rather than the faster win victory. Does that path suit us? It seems that for conquest or dom, the faster teams always get the higher points.

 

[grahamiam]

I have no problems with the 2 archers first if the team agrees, but would prefer to see a second city sooner, and brown is workable, even if I prefer blue, but distance 4 sounds better, so we'll need some exploration first.

If we finish the current archer, then build a settler, then another archer, it will take us ~4 more turns to complete than archer/archer/settler just because we would be building the 2nd archer @ size 1 instead of size 3. another bonus to my proposed order is that we will finish the settler with Rome @ size 2, still able to spew archers out at a 4T clip.

imho, we are probably never going to get the heralded "settler factory". instead, we probably should take a microbial approach and cell divide. this will take discipline as we will need to build settlers starting when the towns are size 2 and within range of finishing a settler by size 3. we would build towns by 1 dividing into 2 (my turns), then 2 dividing into 4, then 4 dividing into 8. we can get a lot of towns this way, but they will be very small. however, with the shield output of Rome as it is, it should be ok. between settler builds, the towns will have to build units.

If we want a "settler factory" then we don't have to look any further than Rome. It could be a size 5-6-7 archer/settler 6T factory if we wanted it to be. irrigate the game and mine 5BG's and your there.

By stringing out the first (& subsequent) wars, we're going for the "milk" victory, rather than the faster win victory. Does that path suit us? It seems that for conquest or dom, the faster teams always get the higher points.

i'm no milkman i'd prefer to win as fast as possible, hence my preference for horse units over flatfoots.

 

[RowAndLive]

I wasn't expecting a settler factory. We're not in the kind of game that would really warrant one in the early stages anyway. I see your logic, and can't disagree. I just said "prefer", that's all.

Do it up, and let's see the results!

 

[grahamiam]

I think our first leader should be an army.

just noticed this comment
Really? An archer army? We probably want HE as soon as possible, right? What if the Pyramids are available?

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Oooo.... The Pyramids. You are right, that would be nice. I do think that HE needs to be an early priority. Pillaging armies of spears and pike would be nice. I sound like a kid on Santa's lap.

Edit - I don't want to milk it either. I think by delaying contact a little early we are settling ourselves up for some major by the middle to late AA.

 

[denyd]

So the vote is to meet and declare on #1 and start on #2 soon after meeting, even if #1 is still alive.

That works for me.

Only problem with using G-Man's Biology plan is having to support the extra barracks/granaries in cities that don't take advantage of them.

 

[grahamiam]

Oooo.... The Pyramids. You are right, that would be nice. I do think that HE needs to be an early priority. Pillaging armies of spears and pike would be nice.

seriously, which is more important right now. an attacking army so we can build the HE or the pyramids? i wasn't trying to bring up a counterpoint but was trying to figure out the best way. i'm an AW newbie and need to be babied a little

imho, the army is really the best thing but i want to be sure. put only 1 archer in it and let it kill a warrior, then load legions into it later. the amount of fighting in the game coupled with the militaristic trait & the HE could allow us to get every significant wonder in the MA as well as an early 2nd FP core.

 

[grahamiam]

Only problem with using G-Man's Biology plan is having to support the extra barracks/granaries in cities that don't take advantage of them.

i'm ok with Rome getting big and pushing out settlers too. i'm just looking for direction. if that's the case, then i could build archer/settler/granery (with chop). Archer and settler will be done in 7T from now and then it will take ~11 turns to build the granery for 18T total.

another way is to do archer/archer/settler/granery(with chop) for 20T total.

sorry, but the calculator is clicking right now and can't stop...

i can also do archer/granery/settler/archer which will produce the most in the least amount of time at about 18T. we can then build another archer then settler every 6T till we're blue in the face.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

G-man - After thinking about this throughout the last hour (Meetings will do that for you ) I think that getting the HE will be the most important thing we can do. Eventually building a military acdemy in Rome would be long term goal. But with the militaristic trait and the HE, we can capture every wonder. Some of that will help us, but denying the wonder to another civ will be more important.

I think I would skip a granary for now and use the shields for military. Do we want three archers or one granary? Long term there is no question, but short term, three archers may make all the difference.

 

[alerum68]

I think if we use Grahms last option we'll be able to get those 3 archers in about 1-2 turns more then before, and still get a granary with a 6T archer/settler option. This seems the most balanced to me... Of course, I'm in my first AW style game, so I'm going to have to defer to a bit more expertise then I have...

I'm going ot let y'all duke it out on the wonder issue.

 

[Bede]

I'm in the no granary camp at Rome if it slows down the production of archers. Could city2 serve as worker/settler farm while 1, 3 and 4 carry the miltary load?