SGOTM3 Rome - Team Bugsy

[Sir Bugsy]

Absolutely play this one first.

Don't worry about the GA. Figure every team playing the variant will have an early GA. So it equals out. I like the expansion towards the Greeks. The land is good for defense and will shorten our resupply lines. Plus it will eventually give us a nice secure backyard. Settling to the southwest is also a good idea since there is nothing but coastline down there.

 

[RowAndLive]

FYI, Tours (size 1) is where the French have their iron hooked up (E tile), although they may have another one.

Next war declaration will be by Grahamiam against Russia in his 5th turn.

 

[denyd]

THE SAVE

Turn 0 – 1250 BC – Not much to do – make 5g selling maps

IBT: Spot a pair of Greek Archers – Rome Legionary->Settler – Russia completes Oracle

Turn 1 – 1225 BC – A pair of Legionaries leave Rome heading for Thermopylae – Thor (Warrior) heads west – R.Hood S – Maximus & Su Batai move to the mountains to wait for reinforcements – Julius N – Peashooter N spots more orange borders – Remus NE

IBT: Greek Archers hunting Maximus – Babylon & France start Great Library

Turn 2 – 1200 BC – R.Hood SW spots lots of nice land and some tundra – Romulus & Remus close in on Thermopylae – Julius forts on the hills – Thor to the west coast spots a fish and a plains wheat – Pea Shooter rests to heal – Su Batai (3/5) kills Reg Archer and promotes – Hulk (renamed from Remus) NE

IBT: R.Hood spots a conscript French Warrior – Hulk is now next to a Reg French Warrior

Turn 3 – 1175 BC – Julius moves back to iron – Maximus & Su Batai join up the Romulus & Remus to form mini SOD – Cora finishes mine and moves to help Eve – Hulk N away from pursuer – R.Hood S – Thor heads back to Rome for promotion – Pea Shooter rests again – Brutus upgraded in Rome

IBT: French conscript towards Julius - French warrior chasing Hulk – Greek Archer heading for the core

Turn 4 – 1150 BC – Pea Shooter NE spots American border – R.Hood S – Mini SOD reaches Thermopylae – Cora chops with Eve – Bev completes mine and moves to join the girls – Julius moves to cutoff French Warrior – Hulk NE – Odin (renamed Romulus) moves to Rome – Brutus heads to Thermopylae

IBT: Another French Warrior tracking Hulk – Rome Settler->Legionary – Cumae Armarmertarium->Warrior

Turn 5 – 1125 BC – EBC (Eve & Bev & Cora) irrigate game – Marc Anthony (renamed Odin) upgraded to Legionary – Maximus (2/4) kills Reg Hoplite and we enter a Golden Age – Remus (1/4) kills Reg Hoplite and Thermopylae auto-razes – Su Batai rests – Julius (5/5) kills French Conscript Warrior – Brutus moves to cutoff Greek Archer – Romulus NW spots an iron – R.Hood S finds a game on the tundra – Hulk N finds Lyon – Pea Shooter NE

IBT: Joan asks if we’ll give 10gpt for peace and we ask how she looks in a Toga and she stomps away – Greek Archer heading home – Hulk is getting boxed in - (I have to shutdown to go to the Internet to check where the settler is heading – I’m back)

Turn 6 – 1100 BC – Brutus S – Settler reaches blue dot – Julius returns to his hill – Thor MP in Rome – Su Batai, Remus & Maximus rest – Romulus E – R.Hood W – Hulk NE to mountain spots a pair of French spices – Pea Shooter N - Marc Anthony heads east

IBT: French Sword (1/3) kills Hulk – An English Warrior and scout come into view N of Julius – Cumae Warrior->Warrior

Turn 7 – 1075 BC – Warrior MP in Cumae – EBC complete irrigation & move to road/mine BG – Settler founds Pompeii starts barracks – Su Batai (5/5) kills Reg Greek Archer – Maximus rests – Remus moves away from Greek Archer – Romulus W spots connected Greek horses – Marc Anthony W – Julius moves to cutoff English Warrior – Robin (renamed R.Hood) heading east across the snow – Pea Shooter N finds Seattle next to an unconnected iron – Brutus W

IBT: Abe complains about Pea Shooter and we say no problem

Turn 8 – 1050 BC – Romulus moves to horses and finds incense – Su Batai W finds Reg Greek Archer – Remus rests – Marc Anthony, Brutus & Maximus W – EBC builds road – Julius (4/5) kills Reg English Warrior – Pea Shooter E finds New York and unconnected horses and more Babylonian borders – Mysticism is for sale but I upgrade Claudius (renamed Thor) instead

IBT: French found Chartres N of xxx so we have a new target – Russia allies with France against us – Su Batai (4/5) defends against Greek Reg Archer – Cumae Warrior->Warrior

Turn 9 – 1025 AD – New Warrior heading to Rome for upgrade – EBC start mine – Claudius heads for Chartres – Julius heads for Chartres – Remus rests – Romulus pillages connect horses – Marc Anthony, Su Batai, Brutus move west – Robin W – Pea Shooter NW

IBT: Greek Archer comes into range – Veii Granarium->Settler

Turn 10 – 1000 BC – Julius reaches Chartres and finds it guarded by a warrior – Su Batai has found Athens guarded by a Vet Hoplite and Romulus, Marc Anthony, Brutus, Maximus & Remus head to eliminate it – Robin walking across the snow – Pea Shooter NW finds a fortified American Warrior on Babylonian soil

There is still a deal (WM + 50g) available for Mysticism, nothing else is for sale – We should probably attack Rheims before it can improve it’s defense (Elite Archer vs Reg Warrior) – I’d wait until help arrives before taking on Athens - Not much else to say, we are falling quite behind in technology. I hoping we'll be able to stomp Greece during our Golden Age and use the seasoned troops to take out France & England before they reach pikemen.

We need more settlers, workers, legionaries and spearmen.

 

[RowAndLive]

Nice turns, Denyd! Thermopylae est mord!

Grahamiam is up. Do we want to switch him back to his original pot on the roster, since he's still travelling, or wait a few days? It's time to crank on Greece and France, and round that corner on the graph!

 

[denyd]

Just a couple of random thoughts for discussion:

1.I'm thinking we gather a new SOD and complete the elimination of Greece and then we can concentrate our military to the north. I checked with Alexander in turn 9 and he had 5 cities (Athens +4). With luck the next player might be able to get that to 2 or 3.

2. We should be able to put a litte hurt on France (think mosquito) and raze Chartres & maybe Rheims.

3. That upcoming settler should probably go 3 E of Rome (1 NE of the wheat) and that will complete the 4 ring. Based on a quick look at Crprings, the second ring would probably fit best at either distance 7 or 8.

4. I'd like to expand to the NE first and then to the N. We will need a defenders for these new cities.

5. Cumae is producing a Vet Warrior every other turn. With enough cash those are Vet Legions.

6. I started a barracks in Pompeii to produce Vet Warrior. With Pompeii & Cumae popping out future Legions, we should have a solid military soon. Rome, is alternating between Legions & Settlers, Veii is our settler pump. The big question is do we cut our losses on Antium and switch to something now or hope to get the Great Library (or maybe get enough towns to build the Forbidden Palace). We are currently 40+ turns from the GL and once our GA is over that number will go up.

7. Once EBC (the workers) finish what they are doing they should move to start a road to the next city site.

8. After Veii builds it's settler, we might want a temple there to get a culture expansion to allow for horseman building.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

If G-man is away, let's bring Alerum to the plate, and slide G-man to the three hole.

Denyd - Just Played
Alerum - Up
G-man - On Deck
Bede
R & L
Bugs

Well played Denyd! Things are looking up terrain-wise. If Athens is on the coast, that means we will be able to fight in one direction.

I need to look at the rules again, but since Cathy declared war on us in 1050 BC, does the declare clock reset (declare on America 20 turns from 1050 BC) or do we stay on the same schedule and declare on America in 450 BC?

Edit - I PM'ed Mad-Bax on a clarification.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

City placement - Is it better to be tighter with a RCP 6 ring? I think those mountains are going to mess us up anyway at 6 or 7. I think a RCP 6 will give us better utilization of tiles. Hopefully we won't even have to worry about building hospitals.

If we do want a RCP 7, maybe we should cram a couple more cities into our 4 ring.

 

[RowAndLive]

I'll pull the save tonight, look at the rings, and post a few dot maps.

 

[denyd]

While killing time during a system reboot, I was browsing around the forums and a couple of points were made on other threads that need repeating.

1. Artillery is the great equalizer. We should start researching mathematics at minimum (I think Bugs mentioned this earlier)

2. You should have 1-2 workers per city. We have 3 workers and 5 cities.

3. Attack your enemies weakest point with your strongest units (though I disagree in our game as I think Greece must be dealt with now and they have the strongest defenders), we should consider attacking the newer French cities while they are still weak.

4. The AI has ESP as to where the resources will be. Use that in city placement, so we should settle near/on the ruins of Thermopylae.

5. Trade early and often. I'm afraid this is something we aren't able to do.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I think we can probably set up a worker factory when we settle to the east of Rome over by the wheat. I think one settler factory, one worker factory, and everything else military would be good.

Having a catapult factory would be good also.

 

[RowAndLive]

The East Map:

 

[RowAndLive]

The South Map:

 

[RowAndLive]

The North Map:

 

[RowAndLive]

The West Map:

 

[RowAndLive]

When refering to a location, please indicate which map, color, shape.
The dots are @8, the rings and X's @7, and the triangles @6.

For the West map, I like the red dot, the red X7, the light blue 7-ball, the brown dot, the green dot, the white dot, and the black dot.

Too many dots, too little time....

ADDITIONS:
It occurred to me whilst looking at the save that we haven't had a whole lot of war weariness yet. Given the variant, that should be coming up as a major problem soon, so we may want to build a few happy gas improvements. Also, from the looks of what Pea Shooter sees, America and Babylon are at war.

Lastly, with the number of elites running around, we should be due for a GL soon. If we use him to build the GLib, it will cause one heck of a cascade. We would probably want to build a lesser improvement first - library, temple, etc. for WW, and then do the GLib in Antium.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

We we're a Despotism, so WW isn't really an issue. We'll also probably want to go monarchy, which shouldn't be an issue either.

If we do get a leader, I would go to the closest town, rush the GLibrary, and change Antium to a palace pre-build for a future wonder.

I can make strong arguments for a RCP 6 or 7. Either way would work for me.

Still looking for Alerum or G-man to pick up the game. Perhaps Brother Bede can jump in.

 

[denyd]

I prefer RCP 7 as I don't like to crowd cities when I'm commercial. (BTW, nice plan review by R&L )

I agree on Despotism->Monarchy->Communism (if we ever get to IA)

I'd like to expand to the Greek coast and then north a bit (maybe to Rheems & the spices SW of France) and the fill in all of the southern lands.

As I see it, we have 2 main 'musts' in the short term if we want to make this an easier win.

1. Get the Great Library
2. Kill the Greeks

If we can do both of these we should be in pretty good shape. If we miss either, we'll be in for a long uphill climb.

I agree the Antium probably won't get the Great Library (A GL is are only shot). When I finished all that could be switched to without major shield loss was the palace. There aren't many other wonders we could switch to, given our lack of science. If we get a couple of more cities founded soon, the Forbidden Palace will come available and that would be fine. I thought about switching Antium to a settler on my first turn, but even then we'd have wasted over 80 shields.

 

[Bede]

Still looking for Alerum or G-man to pick up the game. Perhaps Brother Bede can jump in.

Won't be today. Busy killling Egyptians, Russians and Dutchmen.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

I prefer RCP 7 as I don't like to crowd cities when I'm commercial. (BTW, nice plan review by R&L )

That's in a normal game. This is going to be anything but a normal game. I think we need to figure out how we can best optimize the tiles available. Let's figure we won't be getting any aqueducts soon, and we won't ever get to hospitals. If a city is on a river we can plan for 12 tiles. If it isn't we can plan on just six tiles being worked. Cities at six or less will reduce our need for happy buildings.

What do you guys think?

 

[denyd]

Good points Bugs - Packing them in is probably better considering the variant.

Something I was thinking about regarding the team. The personalities on this team are more methodical and calculating. We seem to prefer to plan optimum city sites, build overwhelming attack armies, establish a dependable defense force and develop cities & terrain. We probably aren't suited for win the game as fast a possible (note our results in game #2 going for a fast win vs game #1 when we planned for a longer path to victory). We should probably consider that next game when we choose our variant. This team seems to be one that would do very well in a space/UN type game where we head for the domination limit during a series of limited campaigns followed by a science/production push to the modern age. Just a few idle ramblings from an overstuffed tummy (buffet lunch) on a warm day.