SGOTM3 Rome - Team microbe

[scoutsout]

I suggest we suspend the game and hear what scout and FTE say about it, and Mad-bax.

Okay... let me see if I've got this straight... we slipped outside variant play, and we can't re-play to get back in bounds... and you want me to weigh in on this discussion somehow. Let me first see if I understand our options:

1) See if Mad-Bax can come up with a way for us to get back within the variant.

2) Continue to play the variant as best we can, regardless of whether or not we get credit for variant play...

3) Abandon the variant, and just play a friendly little emperor slugfest game.

Before I offer any opinion, does that sum up the reasonable options? I'm with gozpel on not abandoning the game...I'd prefer we don't do that.

 

[microbe]

@Microbe: Xenophobic has nothing to do with war/peace, just about not being able to own any foreigners at all. No peace is pretty clear from basic NOW in my eyes atleast, m-b just made it more detailed/complicated to avoid sand-bagging (keeping a tundra city/settler alive to avoid declaring on next civ).

But MB said this which you just quoted:

You are Xenophobic. If another Civ has the temerity to declare war, then you stay at war until one of you are dead.

It's obvious to me that "no peace" is tied with Xenophobic, not NOW.

I never played either variant before, so I have no comment on whether peace is allowed in normal games, which has little to do with THIS game, anyways.

 

[Tarkeel]

I think that was mad-bax posting in-character, as the audacious roman emperox mad-baximus. NOW is basically a relaxed AW game that allows for opening trades.

 

[microbe]

NOW is basically a relaxed AW game that allows for opening trades.

And where does it say anything about not making peace ever?

I checked Arathorn's variant guide and there is no such thing. In fact in the sample game they did discuss making peace, and they did make peace.

 

[gozpel]

"Continue when we agree to whether to proceed or correct the mistake, if possible."

microbe, I think you need a chat with M-B on this one. I can only correct it by declaring right away. Otherwise we're done with the variant.

 

[scoutsout]

microbe, I think you need a chat with M-B on this one. I can only correct it by declaring right away. Otherwise we're done with the variant.

I agree. Let's see if "option #1" above is an option at all. Either we can bring this game back within the variant, or we cannot. Only Maddimus Baximus can answer that question. Once we have his ruling, we will make a decision, and play.

It is not helpful to sit here and go round-and-round about the rules; what's done is done, and there's no sense getting excited about it. I know I stepped outside the variant by squawking about the slave workers, and didn't catch all of 'em... so I don't think any one of us is to blame any more than any other.... and I don't think this game is indicative of the sort of talent that we've got assembled here... this simply isn't going to be one of our better games.

Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield. It's our day to be the bug.

 

[gozpel]

And I prefer gozpelodium games, with rules I understand. microbium should agree.

 

[gozpel]

scoutsout: "I know I stepped outside the variant by squawking about the slave workers, and didn't catch all of 'em"

And so did I

 

[microbe]

I'm going to talk to MB. I wish he could say something like "it's my fault, I'll do better next time, do me a favor and here is what I think you might do to correct this problem.."

And I might then be in a better mood to go back and try replaying the last few turns.

The fault isn't ours. We shouldn't be punished for it.

 

[scoutsout]

And so did I

So I guess we're all just a bunch of warmongering fools... and you know what?!?!?!

I'm okay with that.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Wow...
When I first heard about microbe making peace with India, I didn't give second thought to it because I agreed with his explanation. However, since M-B did say (as pointed out by Tarkeel) that if someone were to declare on us prematurely, we can never have peace, I'm suddenly in the "oh well" mode . We all made a lot of mistakes when it came to following the guidelines towads these rules. I agree with ya'll and that we should hold off playing till M-B can give us a final verdict and go from there.

The whole DoW thing, I based that off of the the maintenance thread in what civ_steve and M-B talked about, and that 20 turns after each DoW is based from the very FIRST DoW made. So I added 20 turns from the DoW of Greece. I had to immediately declare on the Aztecs because they fell on turn 177, but Iroqouis should still be turn 192. But this is trivial since we have a bigger aformentioned issue to deal with.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Sorry for the double post, but I would like to offer a little more of my $0.02 cents of the matter. If we were declare this game as non-variant, then I feel all of our struggles and efforts to this point would be wasted and we basically just tortured ourselves for nothing. I hope M-B can somehow find a middle ground on this, like having microbe (if he's willing) to replay his turnset even though the results will now be dramatically different, just anything so we don't have to be declared non-variant. I would like to finish what we started, and not have our sadism be in vain for something imho can be corrected.

 

[mad-bax]

Since I have been completely unable to make the rules clear, and because the mistake was genuine and makes little difference to the result, just Re-declare war and carry on.

I think every team (including the staff team) have transgressed at some point. It is obvious therefore that it is my fault and not the players. You live and learn I guess.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Oh thank you most benevolent one! But one more thing, am I right about the DoWs, or is microbe's interpretation correct? Please see post #295 (I think, it's around there, on page 15)

EDIT: I changed it to the right post #.

 

[scoutsout]

So... the Xenophobic Non-Oscillating slugfest continues...

 

[gozpel]

Since I won't play until tomorrow, my time, who am I re-declaring on again?

I just have to laugh, I'm utterly confused But drunk.

 

[microbe]

Thanks Mad-bax, I'm feeling better.

For others reference, this is what I got from PM:

So long as you are at war with the civ continuously from the date you should officially declare then you are OK. My intention was that once you were at war with a civ you stayed at war with a civ, but since I have been unable to make myself clear, it would be unfair to penalise you or anyone else for a genuine mistake that has very little effect on the result.

So we carry on and just declare on India in turn 217, and Japan 237. We shouldn't declare on India now, as we still have deals with them.

 

[dmanakho]

Oh..... you guys really need to memorize every single message in maintenance thread to undestand the rules . We are lucky having Tarkeel in our team and he helped us not to make too many mistakes.

I really enjoy visiting your team's thread.... Everytime I check, there is something interesting going on...

 

[scoutsout]

@Gozpel: As far as I'm concerned, you can declare on whoever you want to...as long as it's war you're declaring, and not peace.

 

[gozpel]

So when is turn 217? My C3C thingie is corrupt.