SGOTM3 Rome - Team microbe

[scoutsout]

May I make a suggestion? Let's pick a single military objective, and work towards that goal. Whether it's to hold the line in the north and clean out the south...or drive for Paris... I don't care. One objective.

I think the play among the members of this team has been strong, but I don't think we're playing the same game... strategy wise. I'm as guilty (if not more so) than anybody...

A second core would be nice... the more I think about it, the more it might make sense to go that route rather than putting it where Paris is now...

 

[ForTheEmpire]

I vote for clearing out our northeast (Thermopylae and the new French town) and establishing our FP in that region. Of course, in the meanwhile, our north and west pillaging groups should do their things, but the concentration of offense should be in the northeast. That's my $0.02

 

[microbe]

@ForTheEmpire: you are right about the pillaging cats. I could have used them better.

I agree with one goal. I would like to see us passing those mountains. It's very hard to attack those units coming from mountains. That's why I didn't have a good kill ratio.

 

[gozpel]

ForTheEmpire: "Also, it is during your turns (turn 2) that you must declare on the Iroquois if they are not at war with us."

Affirmative! But if they are at war with us, do I need to declare on someone else? I really hate this Maths-game.

Can I make peace with another civ now, microbe? I wouldn't mind peace with Germany right now, one less to fight and less knights to counter. Then I could concentrate on Thermo...

 

[microbe]

This is from ForTheEmpire's turnlog:

172 / 177 / Aztecs
<We are at turn 190>
197 / TBD / Iroquois <at war>
217 / TBD / India <peace>
237 / TBD / Japanese <peace>

So we are already at war with iro. We could make peace only if we know we don't have to declare in 20 turns. I made peace with India this way so I could broker Education and Invention.

So you cannot make peace with Germany. You can make peace with Japan before turn 217 if it declares on us.

 

[microbe]

Just to clarify what I think:

We were supposed to declare on Aztecs in turn 172 but we met it in turn 177. I think this means we were supposed to declare on Iros in turn 197, not 192, according to the rule:

If you are already at war with opponent 6 you ARE NOT required to declare war on opponent 7 UNTIL you have been at war with opponent 6 for 20 turns, or have completely destroyed opponent 6.

So this means:

Turn 217: India
Turn 237: Japan

This is from ForTheEmpire's turnlog:

172 / 177 / Aztecs
<We are at turn 190>
192 / TBD / Iroquois <at war>
212 / TBD / India <peace>
232 / TBD / Japanese <peace>

So we are already at war with iro. We could make peace only if we know we don't have to declare in 20 turns. I made peace with India this way so I could broker Education and Invention.

So you cannot make peace with Germany. You can make peace with Japan before turn 212 if it declares on us.

 

[Tarkeel]

lurker's comment: As I understand the rules, you can't make peace with anyone, ever. Declarations are as follows (I think):
177 - Aztecs
217 - India
237 - Japan

 

[microbe]

lurker's comment: As I understand the rules, you can't make peace with anyone, ever.

This is not in the rules. Or did I miss anything?

 

[Tarkeel]

3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.

That's from M-B's starting post in the thread.

 

[gozpel]

Yeah, confuse me further. We need to consult M-B.

I'm going to read the frigging rules.

 

[microbe]

But there is a context:

2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.
3. You must stay at war with that Civ until one of you have been eliminated.

So there are two things:
1. It literally only says you cannot make peace with the FIRST civ.
2. It indicates you cannot make peace if YOU declare on the civ.

This rule is a bit ambiguous and I'm not going to exploit it. So my understanding is that once you declare on any civ according to the 20-turn rule, you cannot make peace.

But it's very reasonable to say we can make peace (20 turns) before the due declaration day, as long as we still declare according to the agenda.

 

[Tarkeel]

I found the clarification in the maintenance thread:

You are Xenophobic. If another Civ has the temerity to declare war, then you stay at war until one of you are dead.

 

[gozpel]

Can you state it so I understand it, please?

Who, what and when can I make peace with ???
And who, when and what to declare on?

I really dislike this variant now.

I better just continue bang my head against the knights and get on with it.

 

[microbe]

I found the clarification in the maintenance thread:

Thanks for the pointer, and I am pissed off.

It's not my responsibility to go through the maintenance thread and read all such scattered "clarification". I refer to the official rule and there is no such thing at all.

The Xenophobic part of the variant runs as follows.

7. You may never own a foreign worker. You must never buy or sell one, and if you capture them they must be disbanded on the tile on which they were captured.
8. All deals must be at face value. No haggling.
9. You will not establish embassies.
10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

The "Xenophobic" part of the rule doesn't even mention war and peace.

I already made peace with India and I cannot replay my turns.

 

[barbslinger]

I don't think this variant will make it into any SG's. This sucks right now.

 

[gozpel]

What Tarkeel said is how I understood it, so our variant is no longer a variant, I guess.

We already made peace at least once.

 

[microbe]

I suggest we suspend the game and hear what scout and FTE say about it, and Mad-bax.

Never had such a frustrating game, even in the ones that I lost.

I have no problem with continuing the game as it is, and I am afraid I cannot replay the turns.

 

[gozpel]

Let's just go through the motions then, I never abandon a game.

Even if this game particularly sucks.

 

[Tarkeel]

@Microbe: Xenophobic has nothing to do with war/peace, just about not being able to own any foreigners at all. No peace is pretty clear from basic NOW in my eyes atleast, m-b just made it more detailed/complicated to avoid sand-bagging (keeping a tundra city/settler alive to avoid declaring on next civ).

 

[microbe]

Suspend != abandon.

Continue when we agree to whether to proceed or correct the mistake, if possible.