SGOTM3 Rome - Team microbe

[ForTheEmpire]

Pre Turn 1050AD:
Set at 6.4.0 for Chemistry in 18 at +41gpt. I don't understand the temple in Cumae, but I leave it as is. Salt next to Syracuse will get hooked up.

IT:
Kill a cav in Cumae [1:0]
Rome Knight -> Library in 5 (we need more research power, and I'll only do one non military build at a time)
Antium Knight -> Knight, w/ mming to get it to 7 instead of 8 turns
Gonzonium Leg -> settler (stuck at 4 pop, might as well)
Caesarea Leg -> Barracks (regular leg???)

Turn 1: 1060AD
Move leader to our core and load 1 knight into army. Direct our northern pillaging squad towards the French salt. Some worker home improvement. Pummel a Greek galley with some cats. Kill a knight [2:0]. I have no idea where the settler I have been left with was heading towards, but I will fill out our north/east with it. Change syracuse for a settler in 2 with growth in 2. After all my mming for the sake of production, our income is down to +36gpt. Change Byzantium to Cat in 5 opposed to knight in 22, and Neocaledium to worker in 4 opposed to pike in 14. I have an idea... and start to move some units accordingly.

IT:
Lose leg to a knight and promotes [2:1]. Beat back an English cav with our leg, and retreats
Tarentum Walls -> Barracks in 10
Neopolis Knight -> Knight in 5
Viroconium Pike -> Worker in 4
Nicomedia Walls -> Barracks in 10

Turn 2: 1070AD
Kill 1 settler pair, a cav, and a knight [5:1]. Change Jerusalem from knight in 15 to Pike in 1.

IT:
Wow, the Aztecs land... 2 swords two away from any city... Um, that is a lot of French cavalry in one area (3).
Jerusalem Pike -> Pike in 10
Caesaraugusta Walls -> Worker in 10
Hispalis Knight -> Knight in 7
Syracuse Settler -> Leg in 10

Turn 3: 1080AD
Lose 1 knight, but kill a musket with another [6:2]. Lose a knight to an Aztec sword badly and I produce a leader for him... what the hell... Kill 2 cavs and a knight [9:3]. Remember that lib build in Rome? What was I thinking! Back to knight in 3. 2 more cavs in striking range of Byzantium, which has only 2 knights for defense. No chance of reinforcments, so let us pray.

IT:
Very bad... A Cossack comes out of nowhere and plasters a knight in Byzantium, A french cav eats a pike flawlessly, and an english Cav destroys another knight. We kill a german knight though [10:5].

Turn 4: 1090AD
That Aztec leader btw, is in a galley now. Priorities now changed to take out salt of Russia after French salt (in 2 turns). Kill a cav [11:5], and I upgrade our first musket. Science to zero and hire a scientist for some cash (107gpt) and upgrading power.

IT:
<Insert your favorite expletive> Lose 3 more units and kill 1 sword as a consolation [12:8].
Lugdunum Knight -> Knight
Neocaledonium Worker -> Leg

Turn 5: 1100AD
I'm about to punch a hole into my monitor, destroy my cd, and scream bloody hell to all the powers that be. What is with my RNG!?!?!? I lose another leg flawlessly to a 2hp sword, but I kill it later [12:9]. Seriously, my losses have been nearly flawless victories almost all the time for the AI, and a lot have been in walled hill towns. !@#$. Kill 1 cav pretty easily with a knight army, but then I lose 8 straight hp to another cav dealing only 1 damage... [14:13] 3 knights plus a leader. Kill another knight but takes off 8 hp off another army!!! OH COME ON! That army lives, barely... Rearrange our defense again, and I adjust our science back to 50% to get +21gpt with 145 gold in the bank. Funny how all our pikes died before they can get upgraded ... Our forces are down to almost nothing and I still have a lot more cavs and knights knocking on the door. Cumae's temple in 3 gets vetoed to a musket in 3. And I change some more builds to adapt to our dire situation. Add in a few more musket upgrades we are down to 15 gold. Finally, I build Artaxata in our FP core -> Barracks in 10

IT:
Kill a knight, lose a knight. This is starting to become a bad theme [15:14]
Rome knight -> knight in 5
Pompeii knight -> knight in 9

Turn 6: 1110AD
Kill a cav and a knight [17:14]. Remember that idea I said earlier? Well, I canned it a few turns ago. I was planning on moving 12 legions, 10 cats, 4 knights, and an army to our western most town to go out and destroy London and whatever else that is in the way. Obviously, that isn't feasible anymore. Sadly, I'm almost tempted to fight a musketeer on a hill with a musket. Build Aurelianorum in FP core barracks in 10. Lose 2 more legs in taking out a hoplite, and there is still one left in the greek town [17:16].

IT:
Kill a knight, lose 2 [19:19]. Those cossacks are pissing me off hardcore, as well as the numerous RoP agreements the AI have.
Neopolis knight -> knight in 5

Turn 7: 1120AD
Kill a longbow [20:19]. This would have been the ideal game to try out the longbow's defensive bombard, but oh well.

IT:
Sigh... sombody just shoot me now.

I lose total 10 units (7 cats), kill 1, I don't care anymore [21:29]

Turn 8: 1130AD
Well, then this happens

and I'm just backed to ambivelency minus the heartache. And wow, we have our cats back [22:22]. Lose another knight in attempt to dislodge a musket on our iron [22:23]. Again money raising must be done, science to zero, forget about the scientist, 141gpt.

IT:
Lose a musket on a forest, being attacked across a river to a cossack and only took off 1hp [22:24].

Turn 9: 1140AD
We do not have the troops to defend four different attack points, even if they are all on the same front. Byzantium cannot be reinforced, neither can any other hotzone. I will lose Veil to that musketeer because it is defended with an 1hp knight. Lose a knight, kill 1 cossack and a knight [24:25]. Also may lose Veil since it only has one 4/4 musket and has to contend with a cossack. Lots of musket upgrading, still need more cash (144gpt at 0 sliders).

IT:
Oh my god... We suffer one pillaged tile, and the musket retreats! However we have a lot more cavs in the area, and omg, we actually win a battle [25:25]

Turn 10: 1150AD
Come on, I'm not allowed to kill a 1/4 musket that moved, on a grass with a my 4/4 knight? That musket still lives [25:26].

The Empire:

Good:
2 more towns. Still haven't collapsed, and I pillaged the French salt.

Bad/Ugly:
[25:26] The RNG has left me for good. My own games have went to RNG hell, and now SGOTM. Overall this has not been a good week for me and the computer. I had about 4 different apps not work at all for various reasons, and now this. Seriously, the RNG, while we may accept it as we do when we go gambling, DID NOT go according to form for about 1/2 to 2/3 the time. I lost with good odds. Our cats are next to useless since I hardly landed hits. Fortunately we retook our Sistine's and did not have to raze it since there were no Russian born citizens in that IT. I am at a loss in terms of overall strategy now. Any attempt in me in trying to get something going was lost in the first few turns.

More stuff to say:
We need to talk, now, about how were are going to go about this. We have no game plan aside from staying alive. It's almost like we're playing hotpotato with a 40 megaton bomb, and we're all trying NOT to be the one that starts the downward spiral. Please, let's talk what we need to do. The western four towns are being swamped by cavs every turn, and we can not keep up in replacing our units.

 

[barbslinger]

That non pillaging army issue is killing us. In all my AW games pillaging is the key component.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

You're telling me. Our armies are nothing more than 12-20hp meat shields that are the only source of deterrent in saving our towns. I hope microbe can salvage my disaster set of turns.

 

[scoutsout]

The non-pillaging armies hurt, the inability to keep slaves hurts, and the inability to trade with the other continent hurts. This game does not play like a NOW game, it's AWE.

I do see a potential way ...though it's late. We've got to control the flatlands to the NW. The way it stands now we have to wait for the AI to close with our wester cities before we can do anything about it. Take a couple of armies and use them to protect stacks of workers to get some roads out into those flatlands... then our Knights will be able to do some good before the AI are on our doorstep.

Longer term, if we can finish of Greece and form a battle line from Brighton to Buffalo (after razing and replacing) then we might be able to hold them off until we get cav. But we've got to take those mountains, or we'll never be able to deal with the AI cavalry.

And please, hire a scientist somewhere... we're never gonna get cavalry at zero research...

 

[microbe]

I'll have to play this later. Why did we turn off research? We need cavs asap.

I agree the biggest problem is lack of game plan. We have had this problem from beginning of the game. I feel guilty as I myself couldn't have focused too well on this game for various reasons.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

we're never gonna get cavalry at zero research...

Fund raising was only for 2 turns, and with research at 50%, chem comes in 7 (or 9) turns. I needed the money to upgrade what little pikes we had left. Musket cost 60 gold. One scientist would NOT have made a difference for the few turns that I decided to raise cash.

 

[scoutsout]

What have we got up north of Paris? Is that an army?

 

[ForTheEmpire]

That is our pillaging army (12/13 leg army, 5 cats, and a horse).

 

[ForTheEmpire]

@scoutsout
I read your ideas on the west and thought about it for awhile, and I like them. In general the AI was constantly beelining towards our core from the north, northwest, and west. The English cavs can strike in 1 turn from their town of Brighton in the NW, however the rest of the AIs have no roads to utilize in that entire plains region. If we can somehow get some combat workers to network the roads in our territory, we might be able to skirmish with some positive results, even with our outdated knights. We are researching at either 11 or 12 civ prices (depends on where Greece is) and when I started off, I could have set the slider at 5.5.0 (I think) for chem in 15, but only at +18gpt. 4.6.0 put me in the red. So I'm guessing MT would be around that neighborhood. If we can just hold off for roughly 23 turns till cavalry, and set up our FP core by, maybe then we can think about getting an effective SoD rolling.

And I'm surprised no one has picked up the small details, but yes, the AI is in the industrial ages (examine those AI cities).

 

[microbe]

preturn: things don't look good. We are very short of units.

IBT We kill a knight and retreat a cav. England lands two cavs in the core. [0-1]

(1)1160AD: We lose a knight but kill two cavs. [1-3]

Knight kills a redlined cossack. [1-4]

I take a gamble and use the only defender in Neocaledonium to kill a redlined cav and promotes itself. [1-5]

I start building longbow as it's cheap and as powerful as knight as offense.

IBT we lose a knight. [2-5] More cossacks and cavs appear.

(2)1170AD: kill two cossacks. [2-7] Kill the French musketeer. [2-8] Knight kills knight. [2-9]

IBT we kill a knight and lose another. [3-10] Germany starts Newton's.

(3)1180AD: Leg army kills musketman in Rostov and reveals a redlined cossack. [3-11]

Leg kills a hoplite. [3-12]

IBT we kill a cav [3-13]. England starts Newton's.

(4)1190AD: Elite knight kills redlined cav. [3-14]

leg army kills 3hp cossack in Rostov and autorazes the city. [3-15]

Longbow kills redlined pike. [3-16]

Longbow loses to cav, but we finish off two cavs. [4-18]

Knight army kills cav. [4-19]

Rush a musketman.

IBT Lose an elite knight but kills a longbow. [5-20]

(5)1200AD: Knight army kills cav. [5-21] Kill 3 knights. [5-24]

IBT 3 longbowmen dies to our musket. [5-27]

(6)1210AD: Germany lands a settler/spear pair in the south tip.

Kill a longbow. [5-28]

IBT cav dies. [5-29] But there are 5 English cavs in sight.

(7)1220AD: Our elite longbow gets a leader [5-30]:

Leg army and knight kill two cavs. [5-32]

Knight army drops 7hp and kills a redlined musketman. [5-33]

Elite knight kills injured cav. [5-34]

Legions kill two hoplites and we capture Ephesus. [5-36]

IBT Lots more cavs appear. We lose longbow and knight, but kill one cav. [7-37] Chemistry -> Metallurgy in 10 turns with -5gpt.

(8)1230AD: two knights kill two cossacks. [7-39] Knight army and leg army kill two injured cavs. [7-41]

Elite knight kills redlined musketman. [7-42]

Two legs kill two hoplites and we capture Corinth. [7-44]

IBT we lose a knight. [8-44] Aztecs land two cavs.

(9)1240AD:
We lose one longbow and kill the two cavs. [9-46]
Kill two hoplites and we autoraze Mycenae. [9-48]
Kill cossack. [9-49]
Elite knight kills knight. [9-50]

IBT loses a leg. [10-50]

(10)1250AD: Elite knight kills cav. [10-51] The north is in danger. I rush a longbow.

Note: Greece has only one city now. Get some legs/cats and we should be able to takt it out soon. After that the next player can build some settlers to settle that area.

I have some workers and a settler fortified in Aesonesium (FP city).

Metallurgy in 8 turns. If we can survive the next 20 turns we'll be in a great position to survive longer.

The pillaging army has moved to England. It sends the most cavs to us beside Russia.

I haven't loaded knights into the new army - it's in Cumae. With the new army, I think we can do some offense toward Brighton and Liverpool. Need to road to the enemies.

I find longbow is surprisingly effective, with almost half price of knights.

BTW Cumae should build a market as it has happiness problems.

Also beaware of AI landing. I've seen multiple times of landing with 2 cavalry. Maybe we should build some navy.

Barbslinger
ForTheEmpire
microbe
gozpel - up
scout - on deck

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Good job microbe! And thanks for salvaging my set. I'm surprised how effective longbows are. I guess you just need to protect them. Maybe the poor man's army may be the way to go.

Let's get our western plains roaded up and make our way towards Brihgton. As scoutsout said, the next ring of cities will extend from Brighton to Dijon and follow along the mountians. This would relieve a lot of pressure off our core cities.

 

[scoutsout]

Are we getting the defensive free shot with the longbows? I didn't think that was implemented until C3C?

 

[microbe]

No defensive bombardment.

I absolutely agree to move toward England, but we need some settlers first. During my turns I didn't build a single settler because I had to build units. We are still short of units but at least we've got most cities defended. At beginning of my turns many of them are empty.

We also should put some legs in the north on those mountains. Constantly there are AI trying to trespass and pillage.

 

[gozpel]

Ok, I continue on the same path and try to get out a couple of settlers as well. Got it.

 

[ForTheEmpire]

Speaking of pillaging units, during your turns gozpel maybe the advent of AI riflemen, since microbe didn't mention them during his set. Good luck!

EDIT: And it's nice to see we now have a strategy to work for, even though we are still walking a thin line of survival and defeat.

 

[gozpel]

Sorry, I didn't have time to play until now and when I open the save I see we sit on 2 Greece towns, Ephesus and Corinth.

10. You will never retain a town that contains foreign citizens. Such towns must be razed and any workers spawned disbanded.

We just broke the last rule and this is too annoying. I just feel like call it quits.

Of course, I can abandon the towns, but it is as far away from a fun game as I ever been involved in.

What do you say, team?

 

[scoutsout]

Sorry, I didn't have time to play until now and when I open the save I see we sit on 2 Greece towns, Ephesus and Corinth.

We just broke the last rule and this is too annoying. I just feel like call it quits.

*sigh* That's a rule we shouldn't have broken.

Of course, I can abandon the towns, but it is as far away from a fun game as I ever been involved in.

Well...I can honestly say this is not the most enjoyable game I've played... but I would rather not abandon it entirely... let's take stock of our situation:

1) We broke another rule
2) We are completely out of the hunt for any sort of award, other than avoiding the Wooden Spoon. (I'd really like to avoid consecutive W.S. awards...)
3) If we just kept the towns and played, we would not be the first team to abandon a SGOTM variant. IIRC, one of the declared variant teams from SGOTM2 abandonded the variant and completed their game.

The way I see it we have three options:

1) abandon the towns and continue to attempt this variant.
2) abandon the variant, and continue to play the game... either as AW or a straight game.
3) abandon the game.

I would like to continue to slog through it. I think if we survive another 30 turns we will avoid the wooden spoon. So I would be in favor of either #1 or #2.

Now... since we're way out of the hunt for any sort of award... and since we don't seem to be having much fun... I suggest we try to figure out a way to make this game fun, and continue to play it.

 

[microbe]

Damn it!

I think I am just stupid to not be able to remember every rule. I guess I have to read the rules all over again at the end of every turn.

I am sorry.

My preference to scout's solutions: 1, 3, 2.

I really like to play this to the end with the variant. Not because I enjoy it, but we have already spent so much time on it (and suffered). These two towns are size-1 and didn't build anything useful for us (except for a couple of gpt as unit upkeep).

 

[gozpel]

I play civ because I like it and want to have fun. This game is a total disaster and it feels like going to the dentist.

We could continue in any of the above solutions, but I rather do something more interesting, like picking lint out of my navel or watching shop-channel on 2.

 

[scoutsout]

@Gozpel: I understand how you feel. This game has been a bit of a headache. Let's see what Barbslinger and ForTheEmpire have to say as well.

@Microbe: Just to be sure I am clear, you would prefer to abandon the game rather than abandon the variant and continue the game?