SGOTM3 Rome - Team Peanut

It has been a very hectic week for me. But let me jot down a few of my observations for the team to consider. I agree with CivSteve that we need to concentrate our forces and set up kill zones. Use horses rather than other units for MP duty and don’t unnecessarily risk horsemen.

I am also in agreement with the Paris plan and the disconnecting of Iron after the upgrades and building lots and lots of warriors. As we are finishing off the French I will get back to my pillaging theme. The team seems to be in agreement, but as of yet it really has not been implemented. I believe we are at the point we can’t ignore the power of pillage any longer. Two areas it will be especially helpful. 1) Disconnect AI saltpeter. This will keep our knights effective longer. 2) Keep Greece without horses and economically weak until we can turn our attention to her again. We really have to make this a team effort if it is to be effective. 10 turns is not enough time to move the pillager to the place we need. The only effective pillaging we have done is my disconnecting of the Greek horses, but look how much pay-back we have gotten for that! I was only able to do this however, because the horses were reachable within my turn set.

The temptation is always to use the pillaging unit for something else. The tyranny of the urgent has kept us from the important. For example, our pillaging army has never left our territory. The waves of swordsmen seemed urgent, but what was really important was to deny the AI iron so that we would have been facing archers instead. If we had done this we might have some of those Legions we lost still with us.

May I suggest we rename any unit we send on a pillaging mission a name like “ACME Demolition,” clearly state the target tiles and the rest of the team honor those plans and follow through.
 
I can agree with you Keith, subject to pop-up emergencies (which a deep pillaging unit shouldn't be able to respond to, anyway.) Right now we are really short of units, but we should at least keep Greece from connecting either Iron or Horses. Pillaging Saltpeter is more of a problem; Babylon has a city on one source so we'd have to pillage all roads leading to this city. To compound the problem, this one city is sitting in the middle of English Territory.

With a large Knight force, pushing North, and reasonable favorable RNG results, we should be taking territory almost as fast as we can pillage it. Definitely plan to drive forward. BTW, there is a post in the Maintenance thread where its revealed that Armies can't pillage!! If we send it to an AI interior, it would have to be acccompanied by other units to do the actual pillaging.
 
Oh, bother! I'm going to have to pass my turns as I have a full weekend ahead of me. I'm building a fence and trying to get the house ready to sell so I'm not going to have much time. And in the time I DO have I'm probably going to be worn out and not focused enough to really do a proper job. Sorry all.
 
bigchief: just a reminder, America is due to be declared on in 420 AD, the 7th turn of the next set of turns

Peglegasus: its a shame we can't set some Workers on 'Automate - Build Fence' for you! ;) (but then again, the resulting product might not be what you want, knowing the way these workers do their job)
 
A brief report from the Scores and Downloads screen:

- Team Smackster has finished the variant in 1300 AD. So we have 100 turns to wrest the Laurel from them! (No sweat, right!)

- OTOH, we are 4th from the bottom for the Wooden Spoon; right now Team's Sesn, Microbe and Bugsy are in better position to receive that 'distinction'. We've hit a bit of an upward trend, and are gaining on Team Mistfit

- Except for Team Smackster, who's Pyramids-fueled performance has outdone all, the next group of games are all non-Variant games, followed by a spread of Variant games, in terms of score performance. This makes sense as not having to declare these early wars allows your empire to get established more quickly. Within the Variant games, the top-games are probably those who are doing OK vs the AI AND have changed to Monarchy, then those doing OK vs the AI but are still in Despotism (us), followed by those who are not doing well.

For score purposes and faster growth, we might want to switch to Monarchy at some point soon. Problem is we've fielded a pretty big army so the support cost will be high, about 30-40 gpt at our current rate; and I'm leery to do the change before we've gained the upper hand against the AI. We'll need to discuss this more.
 
Wow, I guess ALL of us were busy this weekend! I figured someone would be itching to play some civilization. My fence is done except for the gate, and I am sore and tired.
 
Sorry, I've had a bad weekend. I am playing today. I'll have my turns posted by this evening.
 
I am sorry guys, but things have been rough in real life this weekend, and there is no way I can play today. I thought I would be able to get it in. Please skip me this time.
 
bigchief: I'm sorry to hear about your bad weekend and rough real life right now. I hope things turn around for you real soon.

I'll post a got it for now and (hopefully) get a turn in by tomorrow morning.
 
Well I'm a few turns into the set, and I've gotten a GL!

I can make an army, or rush the Forbidden Palace. If the FP, where? Close by to increase the productivity of our distance 6 cities (in one area)? I've got the Settler Veii created up in the Hills just south of Paris; I could build FP up here; the culture would help to jam up the AI trying to come through, but there aren't any towns nearby right now.

Any suggestions?
 
Another core will be essential, it may as well be now as later. On the other hand, another legionary army may be handy to send off as escort for a pillaging party. A hard call. Once we get three armies we can build the Pentagon, can't we ? Would that be a useful objective ? I think I lean towards starting our second core.
 
Perhaps we should build the FP close to our core, and use a future GL to move our Palace to a 2nd core. We don't really have this 2nd core established yet.
 
I've finished the next set of turns. We got Chivalry from the GLib on turn 7, upgrading all our Horses. Paris fell the next turn :D. We've built 4 more cities, 2 up North, 1 on the Southern Tip and 1 to finish our distance 6 ring in NW. I rushed FP in Veii; it's pretty central to our current core, and will allow us to use a future GL to move our Palace to a new core, once established. 2 More Settlers have been generated and are heading North to assist the future invasions. Most cities are building Warriors for MP duty and future Legion upgrades; we had 30 Knights to start with (down to 26), and have built 6 more Horsemen for future upgrade.

Turn log:

Turn 0, 350 AD
Moves: 3/5 Elite Legion moved to Horseman/Worker Stack
Horseman in mtns (with Germ LongB/Sword/Spear stack adj!!!!) retreated
Elite Legion in Neocal. moved to protect 2/4 Horse in Hills adj to Virc
4/4 and 4/5 Horsemen in Virc moved to Horseman/Catapult stack
MP from Pompeii moved to Rome; MP from Veii moved to Neocal.
Research to 100%, Chivalry in 9

(IBT German Sword comes down road, but loses to our Horseman/Catapult stack
German units shift Right; Pike move South to Forest near Ravenna
English Sword, 3 LongB's come over mtns towards Aesonium)

Turn 1, 360 AD
Veii fin Stlr, beg Stlr
- 2 Greek Longbows done in by Horseman/Legion after Cats take 2 HPs off; another Longbow in mtns
- German Pike gets Catted, taken out by Bruce (5/5 Elite, down to 3/5)
- Regroup in Virconium; Army takes position in Hills just South of Paris, with Cats and some Horses


(IBT, Greek LongB kills Legion
Engl advance on Aesonium, another LongB appears in hills, Galley heading South
Germans - Sword/LongB adj to Ravenna; 2 Pikes/2 Stlrs adj to Army
St. Louis founded in Hill zone NE

Turn 2, 370 AD
Pisae fin Horseman
- 2 Legions kill 2 Eng LongB's; Vet Horse does in 3rd, retreating to Aesonium; Elite Horse does in Eng Sword; No losses for us; 1 Eng LongB all for this zone
- 5 Cats put 1 HP on German Vet Sword in Mtns; Elite Legion does him in; Vet Legion does in Germ LongB
- 3 Cats put 3 HPs on German Pikes; Army does in 1, but down to 5/13 (!)
- Greek LongB done in by Horseman
- reform in NE zone

(IBT Eng LongB heads towards NeoCal.
French Swords show up near army
German Spear, followed by 2 Germ Swords Advance, Germ Pike retreats
AND ... GL generated in Mtns by Horseman defending against Greek LongBow!!!

Turn 3, 380 AD
Rome and Cumae fin Horsemen; Lutetia fin Catapult
- Horse Pillages Mtn Roads near Greece, then retreats (no more LongBs getting the first shot); Anthony comes along and is adjacent to Brundisium
- Horse does in Eng LongB (2 more in Mtns, 2 turns away though)
- Advance towards France

(IBT Germans advance 1 Spear, 2 Swords; start on Sistine Chapel, so Theology is out!!
English LongB's advance, joined by a 3rd on the Mtns)

Turn 4, 390 AD
Antium builds Settler, back to Horses
Ravenna fin Horseman
Germany learned Theology, traded to England for Gunpowder; England also knows Chemistry
Palmyra founded in hills South of Paris, begins on Walls
- Cats reduce French Swordsman near Palmyra to 1/4; Vet Horse finishes
- Cats reduce Germ Spear to 1/3 near Pompeii, Reg Legion does coup de grace

(IBT we learn Theology
2 German swords adv adj to Pompeii and Virconium; 2/3 Pike retreats
5 Bab LongBs appear near Paris
Russian Settler/Pike and French Russian/Pike appear
Greek LongBow)

Turn 5, 400 AD
Virc fin Horseman
Jerusalem founded on Dover's ruins to South (by Antium's Settler)
2 Germans Swords done in by Legions (only 1 Cat hit)
Greek LongB killed by Legion
2 English LongB's done in by Horses near NeoCal
2 Bab LongB's Catapulted (4 hits in 6 shots), then taken out by 2 Legions; add defensive legion in Mtns

(IBT, Eng retreat; Babs Advance; Russians have 2 Settlers they are trying to maneuver around Palmyra; 3 French Swordsmen as well; our exposed Legions did not get an attack

Turn 6, 410 AD
Rome fin Settler, and 3 Horsemen added to the Ranks
Light Action near Palmyra; 1 Russian Spear and 1 Bab LongB done in; Legions returned to Roman soil

(IBT, lots of movement around the empire, from the East:
Sev spits out an Archer
Greek Hoplite advances
Babs have a healing Pike, a Sword, a 3LongB/1Sword/1Stlr Stack, and a lone LongB in the NE
Germans have Spear/Stlr and a lone Sword
Russians have 2 Pike/Stlr stacks, and a lone 1 hp Spear
France has a lone Pike, and 3 Swords
Eng has a lone LongB


Turn 7, 420 AD
Veii finish Settler, start on FP
Trade Engineering to America for WM, 14 Gold and Gems (his offer); Declare War!!
Rush FP in Veii with Anthony
3 civs hav Chivalry, so reduce Research to 0
Army takes 1 hp Russian Spear near Palmyra (exposed position, but I think he's safe)
3 out of 4 Cats hit on Germ Spear; Elite Legion kills him, generating Octavian (2nd GL!!)
Build Army in Palmyra with Octavian
1/3 Cats hits Russian Archer; Elite Legion finishes up

(IBT, the rest advance of course; Eng adds 3 more LongB within Visual range
We learn Chivalry; 30 Knights are instantly upgraded when Veii finishes FP
We lose 2 Legions; 1 Outpost Legion is overrun by Bab LongBs, and the Elite that generated Octavian also falls to a Bab LongB)


Turn 8, 430 AD
- 1 HP Bab LongB near our North Road is dispatched by Legion
- Bab Pike gets 1/3 Cat bombards; Knight gets first win against Pike; Legion takes accompanying LongB and kills off Bab Stlr
- Knights charge out of Palmyra, intent on destroying Paris: 4 Wins, 3 Losses, 3 Retreats, and Paris is put to the Torch!
- Cats put 1 HP on French Sword; Army finishes him, and is back on Roads
- Cats put 2 HPs on Eng LongB (Threatening North Road), 1 HP on Bab LongB (adj to Palmyra)
- Knights clear 2 Bab LongB's in Mtns near Palmyra
- Lose 1 Knight, while Killing 1 Russ Sword, and redlining a 2nd
- Pillage Iron, start on Warriors and Horsemen
- 2/3 Cats on Greek Hoplite; Knight does last HP

(IBT, lose 1 Knight to French Sword)

Turn 9, 440 AD
Several Horsemen are finished
1 HP Russian Sword finished
2 out of 3 French Swords done in
2 Cats put 2 HPs on Eng LongB; 2 Knights finish and return
Cats put another HP each, redlining, an Eng LongB and Russian Sword near Palmyra; Legions finish
Horses replace Knights as MP, where possible

(IBT Muskets (Babs and English) are starting to show up)

Turn 10, 450 AD
3/6 Cats hit Bab Pike/Musket/2Stlr Stack; Army finishes Musket (9/13); Knight takes Pike, and does in 2 Settlers
Tarentum founded on former French Plains; begins Walls
2 Cats hit Eng Musket in NW Plains; Vet Legion gets last HP
Elite Legions goes mano-a-mano with Bab Pike near Ravenna, and gets the last laugh
1/3 Cats hits Greek LongB near Ceaser Augusta; Knight finishes
Legion takes out Greek LongB near Brundisium

End of Turnlog

Picture of Empire:

Peanut_sg3_ad450MainZ.JPG


We're at war with everyone now; I traded Engineering to Abe for one more WM. Once healed our Knights should have no problem cleaning the rest of the Northern French cities out, making France a government in exile. The action has definitely shifted North, with some harrying side attacks; I've left some forces and catapults all around the empire, but our primary force is shifting North. If we get Chemistry from the GLib, we might want to consider reseaching Metallurgy and MilTrad, to get us Cav quickly; OTOH, losing 3 Knights assaulting Paris (pikes only) wasn't too bad. Could plan to lose 5 Knights assaulting Musket defended Capitals, and 3 to other cities and just build the forces up to compensate. And we'll probably get more armies as we go along, giving us a good initial shock attack with Knight armies.

BTW, we have an empty army sitting in Palmyra; I didn't want to fill it up (Knights I'd say) until we had a decent amount of other units; maybe I should have for Paris, this might have save a Knight or two to take out the first defender immediately (we hope).

bigchief
civ_steve -- Just Played
Keith Larson <--- UP!!!
Peanut
Peglegasus

450 AD Save
 
I can't believe how bad the timing is. I am leaving on a trip early tommorrow and can't get to the game tonight. This is two turns in a row! Could I ask the team skip me for now, but allow me to play the first turn set that become open Sunday or Monday?
 
Maybe it will be your turn by then ;)

I'm fine with postponing your turn set to next Sunday or Monday. In any case, I believe that brings General Peanut up for duty!!
 
Excellent progress CS. A hard act to follow. I like the MilTrad research path - the extra mobility and firepower are worth it.

Tough missing out twice Keith. I vote we slip Keith into the roster when he announces he is back on deck. Any objections ? Please speak up if you are unhappy with this.

In any case - it's a got it I suppose for the notoriously reckless General Peanut.
 
In retrospect, I should have loaded 3 Knights into the Army prior to assaulting Paris; however, I have had at times excruciatingly terrible RNG results with Armies, losing them on their first assault even though the odds should have been overwhelming in my favor. Peanut: the wounded Knights in Palmyra have spent a turn in the city, so on your first full turn they'll be fully healed; that would be the time to load the army in Palmyra, if you are so inclined.

I haven't seen any fast units from the AI recently, just lots of LongBows and Swords. However, with Chivalry starting to be common knowledge, we might start seeing Knights here and there, so be sure to keep some defenders in our frontline towns.

Most of the towns are finishing at least one round of Warriors each; these can replace most of the MPs, freeing up the Knights to move forward. I'd still keep a Knight or two in most zones for point defense, and a couple of catapults in these zones as well. I've seen about 4 Galleys floating around our Southern Tip, 3 English and 1 French, so either they're trying to reach undefended cities or looking for land to grab.

I founded Tarentum so that Lyons can be reached in one turn by our Knights; otherwise Lyons culture would require 2 turns by Knights and 3 turns by Legions to reach. Penetrating the AI culture with our cities like this is a good way to speed our forces forward.

England is the Tech Leader; they know Chemistry by themselves. Next is Germany and Babylon. Greece is missing a couple Techs, Russia, America and France are further behind. I'd suggest clearing the French away, leaving some Legions, Cats and a Knight or two to handle incoming from Babylon, Germany, Russia and America (we just declared on America so we should be seeing a wave of American units soon), and send the bulk of our Army against England. This will weaken our strongest opponent and protect our NW side reducing the amount of defenses we have to maintain there.

After building Warrior MPs, the core units should be building Horsemen. We're going to need more Settlers, so I'd keep building them in Veii, popping them out from Rome and Antium at size 7, and any other city that stops growing should pop out a Worker (size 4 or lower) or Settler (size5 or higher). Lutetia is also a good city to build Settlers with the irrigated Cow they have; we might want to get them a Granary.

That's my strategy thoughts. Keep the units tight and supporting each other; stacks are better than single units, and defense is pretty critical; if an AI unit wanders off, just keep track of it, don't chase it; eventually it will come back and then we can attack it (so it's the one that lost lots of turns), or it will be of no consequence; focus on moving forward against the AI cities; make plans for each assault, including a provision for defending wounded units, and execute your plan; and if attacking will leave vulnerable units exposed, don't make the attack unless your are certain that the AI can't reach the units; be wary of roads, and at the same time use them. Match potential attackers with one more defender (2 AI attackers, use 3 Defenders). We can't afford to give up any cities, or any of our zero defense units, and we'd like to minimize losses to our offensive units. With Knights, the Cats and Legions are at best followup units. Still, I'd have them following; that way you attack with a pile of Knights, raze the AI city leaving several 1HP Knights vulnerable in a stack, then several Legions and cats move in along the road (hopefully there's a road), providing a solid defense for our wounded Knights. Cats have worked pretty good in open ground to wound AI units, but not as well against cities, so I wouldn't delay a Knight assault to move Cats into position if I were reasonably certain of taking the city. (In fact, I wouldn't attack the city at all unless I had Overkill - it took 10 Knights to take Paris with 4 Pikemen, I had 14 Knights available.) Use the Cats more to defend stacks and ping on approaching AI.

Good Luck, General Peanut!
 
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