SGOTM3 Rome - Team Smackster

[smackster]

I think the GOTM spoiler thread is what it implies a spoiler, so we shouldn't look at it. I did play this GOTM, but its such a long time ago that I have no memory of any of it, and at that time I certainly didn't know what a settler factory was.

Once we have the lay of the land mapped out we should do a dot map for RCP position. I think RCP 3 might be good.

Building the GL on emperor is tough, I would never build it in a normal game, but in this game we can't even capture it, well we can but if I read the rules right, we'd have to abandon it before we got any benifit. We can't extort the AI for tech, hmm this will be tough. We really have to maximise the limited trade round that we get meeting each AI.

I was hoping to get a start on it last night, but at around 1.00am EST it was still not there, so I'll give it a go tonight.

 

[smackster]

We won't be able to build Granary for another 15-19 turns, so at the beginning we have to make sure we have some units to defend our single city...
I would still try to build a 1st settler before granary.... I am not insisting on this though...

My general rule is that if you can get +5fpt in the first city, then build a granary first, otherwise consider (I mean its not a clear decision, I could go either way) building a settler first. Of course in this game, all the general rules should be thrown out.

 

[dmanakho]

Building any ancient age great wonder on emperor level is extremely difficult task. Great library is the easiest wonder to build just because AI often ignores researching literature and our only hope to get it if AI switches to MA before getting literature as it is an optional tech.
Big problem though that it will tide resources of entire city that will have to build GL instead of pumping leggionaires. Well, if we have 3MGLs at the beggining of the game then i would use 3rd one to rush a wonder.
Good luck with starting the game smackster, take us to the victory.

 

[Tarkeel]

I suggest putting out an early settler if we can find a second spot cloe by that will give 5 fpt. Not likely though. I'd go with 3 warriors here, 2 for scouting and 1 for defense. We don't need to scout very far, no more then 10 tiles towards the center of the map, but it needs to be done before the AI scouts that area (and we meet them).

My idea: have the first warrior scout "far", we need to find a defensible line. The second warrior should scout close/to the rear. If needed (early contact) build a third for defense, but the first one might be back before contacts.. Then a settler if we have a good enough spot, else granary.

Hope that wasn't just rambling...

 

[Wotan]

In this game I would probably opt for only 1 "scout" since going beyond 5-6 tiles will put us in jeopardy of meeting someone too early. I would rather they find us than the other way around. Just scout enough to get a clear picture of where to place our 1st ring cities. Delay the first contact as much as possible. Sending a scout 10 tiles out from Rome will probably result in contact, unless we are on an island which I very much doubt

@Smackster: Capturing the GL is out, of course, it just take some time for me to adapt to the rules of the game I guess.

 

[Wotan]

My general rule is that if you can get +5fpt in the first city, then build a granary first, otherwise consider (I mean its not a clear decision, I could go either way) building a settler first. Of course in this game, all the general rules should be thrown out.

We will only be able to reach 4fpt (game forest when irrigated) at the starting spot.

 

[dmanakho]

Few more thoughts on the game... i don't think we should send warrior far away..
i am still convinced we need to build 4 before we start building anything else, and this is really the only possible way to go i explain why..
We won't be able to grow fast enough, and warrior can be build initially in 4-5 turns and then 3-4 and 2 turns as population grows to 3.... we even are going to be able to squeeze barracks building while we still growing and researching pottery...
Once we hit pop 3 and close to get a 4th citizen we can start building 1st settler.

IMPORTANT: I believe we don't have to declare war when we see AI scouting around. The only time we declare war when we open diplo screen for the 1st time, so unless AI contacts us 1st we can postpone war a little bit until we have more than 1 city. I suggest we build at least 3 cities until intentionally going to war.
So have we decided on getting pottery first and then trying to do writing -> literature and GL???? In my test game i was able to research pottery in 15 turns, but then writing even at max was giving me 40turns initially.
How many civilizations are total over there??? if we have many AIs we are probably going to be able to buy IW cheap even for nominal price.

 

[Wotan]

2. You must declare war on the first Civ you meet before leaving the diplomacy screen for the first time.

Help me out here. Is this to be interpreted to the letter? So as long as we do not enter the diplo screen, we are free to ignore them? And if they initiate contact by a pop up can we "ignore" it by clicking "the not-now" button? Or should we check F4 every turn to see if someone have spotted us?

 

[Wotan]

We won't be able to grow fast enough, and warrior can be build initially in 4-5 turns and then 3-4 and 2 turns as population grows to 3.... we even are going to be able to squeeze barracks building while we still growing and researching pottery...

Even if this is the way we go, clearing/irrigating the game forest should be a priority. Thus on the turn the forest clears we need to have something taking full advantage of the 10 shields gained. It could be a barracks, but should absolutely not be a turn we are building a Warrior.

 

[dmanakho]

Even if this is the way we go, clearing/irrigating the game forest should be a priority. Thus on the turn the forest clears we need to have something taking full advantage of the 10 shields gained. It could be a barracks, but should absolutely not be a turn we are building a Warrior.

nope we can not waste shields from forest on warrior build...
i concur with you here 100%.. barracks would be a better use of those shields

Help me out here. Is this to be interpreted to the letter? So as long as we do not enter the diplo screen, we are free to ignore them?

That is how we would understood it if we were lawyers
But i think if this interpetation is correct we should be able to postpone war at least to the point where we have a stuck of dozen archers to do some

 

[smackster]

No, if they contact us, then we are stuck, that is our one turn of dip and we have to declare war before we leave that contact screen. Obviously we should do everything we can to avoid that contact for as long as we can.

I'll make the first few moves in the next hour. Unless the start is obvious, I'll pause, take a screen shot and post that so we can openly discuss what we see. I don't know what is beyond the starting sequence, so not sure if we can get +5fpt or not, I haven't even grabbed the save yet. Cracker maps tend to have obvious settler factory starts, certainly GOTM20+ did.

 

[smackster]

OK I'm in

T0 4000BC
Worker south onto hill, reveals more grassland squares. East I see a river beyond the mountain, could be flood plains, or just plains. South the river ends and might be something there too. Nothing for it but to settle on the spot, and start on Pottery.

From this point we can only get +4fp, when the game is irrigated. As I really want that done soon, I'll start moving the worker over there to chop. I agree that we should build a settler as soon as we can, before a granary. So the forest chop should go to a barracks, that means, I think warrior/warrior/barracks, which is probably a sensible start as we are going to be fighting. I never build a barracks this early normally, but I don't think this is quite a normal game.

So I settle on the spot, start on Pottery at max. To the east we do see a river on plains.

Civs
Greek, French, English, Babylon, Russia, German, Aztec, Irroquois, India, Japan, America

T1 3950BC

Move worker over the game, and will start chopping.

T2 3900BC

T3 3850BC

T4 3800BC

T5 3750BC

First warrior, he will do a little scouting, just to peer over the hills.
East we see wheat on the plain.

T6 3700BC

T7 3650BC

T8 3600BC

Just a wall of moutains, two deep, to the NE

T9 3550BC

T10 3500BC
Second warrior, we grow to size 2 and expand our borders.

You will see an FP and a planes game to the north north west, which look like the best second city location so far.

Things I plan to do from here

Chop completes in 3, which I'll throw into a barracks, at least I think its a barracks, as its all in Latin. No time for any more units before that. We get Pottery in 7 still.

I'll send that second warrior south, and the northern warrior has gone as far as I want to send him out.

After the barracks, we'll actually be ready for a settler, so I'll build that before any more warriors.

That's all for now, will finish later. To do : check to see if I counted turn right.

Smackster

 

[smackster]

Oh, meant to say that I'll have to use the slider if I move that second warrior, I think its worth it, don't think we lose anything actually.

Also we are currently in the lead, not in score however, in posts this will be our 32nd.

 

[Tarkeel]

Looking good so far. However, I would have waited to chop the forest, and mined/roaded the BG on the way instead, to ensure that it went to the granary. We do need a barracks no matter what though

Send the warrior to investigate the wheat in the SE I'd say It's well worth running lux for.

You have counted the turns almost right, 4000 BC isn't turn 1 but turn 0 So that would put turn 20 at 3000 BC

 

[smackster]

I think that could be a legitimate way to do it. But I do want to get that first settler out before the Granary, and I really wanted to chop/irrigate quickly for the extra food it gives. The low cost barracks (as we are militaristic) allows us to build that without really effecting the time to the first settler (maybe a turn or two later). As it looks like the capital will be our warrior pump for a while then it might help us.

edit:Thanks for the turn hint, I usually put each turn in my log, but some of these turns just involved hitting space bar once. Now why would 4000BC be turn 0? Also with the submission page its easy to see if you have the right end year (from the other games), that is the final way I check it

 

[smackster]

I just remembered some of the logic for setter vs granary first production. I think it was a Quitai article last year that discussed this. The conculsion was that you should build a settler before granary, if you see a second close location to your start position that can produce at least the same number of food points (even if the first location has +5fpt). The theory being that the granary would essentially double your food production, and settling in a location that equals your fpt would essentially double your food production, but its always better to have two cities rather than one. As we can only get +4fpt, and we can sneak that barracks in this, I think it makes sense.

So far I can see that location north / north west that would have more fpt. Well, its too late now anyway

 

[Tarkeel]

Forgot one thing.. Send the northern scout 1 more tile, to see the end of that mountain, then off to the west (just a suggestion, east works too) to see how wide that area is.

Edit: Northern location won't have the shields for a settler factory though, but it can certainly pump workers.

 

[Wotan]

Had a quick look at possible sites for cities at RCP 3. All marked on map above looks as if they are on rivers. If so it gives us several good tiles to build cities wo need of aqueducts.

I am curious about the possibility of discovering a suitable location for a 5fpt city based near the wheat in SE. That might give us a reason to reevaluate a RCP3 and possibly go for a RCP4, that is if we can gain a Settler factory around the Wheat. The tile 3 SE from Rome could use the Wheat if supported by a RCP3 city on the plains 2 E of Rome

 

[smackster]

If the team agrees, I'll move the warrior one more north. I'm scared of meeting a mean looking Babylon archer or something, but its probably worth a look.

Thanks for the dot map Wotan. Problem with that fp/game location is the distance. Still there are more tiles to see, but we'll have to wait until I get home Note that wheat is on a plain, not as good as on a grassland of course.

 

[Tarkeel]

Looks like we might win the spam-award atleast! Closest competitors are at 27 and 19, while we are at 39 with this

The forest north of the wheat is distance 4 though, not 3.