SGOTM4 A New Beginning - Maintenance Thread

I'm resisting issuing passwords for access to progress information, which seems to be the only way to allow teams to see selective information for slower teams. Of course, you could chill out and play a little slower :mischief:

I think Madame la Guillotine is already sharpening her blade in readiness for a swift and merciful end to SGOTM3. It will only have "dragged out" for about 10 weeks, which is not really so bad.
 
AlanH said:
I think Madame la Guillotine is already sharpening her blade in readiness for a swift and merciful end to SGOTM3. It will only have "dragged out" for about 10 weeks, which is not really so bad.

I will dedicate my prayers to those victims of Madame la Guillotine....
RIP :)
 
Well we have discussed how long the SG's should last, and I think 10 weeks for SGOTM3 was probably 2 weeks too long. The Guillotine will fall on Friday, but I hope the remaining teams will continue to the bitter end.

I would also take the opportunity to thank Alan once again for making this such a proffessionally run event. The recent changes to the downloads page are great. :thumbsup:
 
AlanH said:
I'm resisting issuing passwords for access to progress information, which seems to be the only way to allow teams to see selective information for slower teams.
How about a link placed in every team thread and selecting the shown information via the referer (or an id put into the link).
That would also allow lurkers to see the info when they go via the thread of the leading teams.

Just an idea, to think about if you're bored sometime and don't know what to do. It's fine with me as it is.
 
I want to raise a question bothering me:
Quite a number of us have played GOTM29 and thus have a varying degree of map knowledge in our brains.
  1. Is it o.k. to use the knowledge from GOTM29 in our exploration?
  2. In consequence: May players that did not play GOTM29 study the respective spoilers?
  3. In consequence: May people download final GOTM29 saves and study them for learning the map?
Assuming of course, that there are no small but significant changes ....
 
I'd be shocked if mad-bax didn't change the map a bit. We already know that he changed the civs and the resources.
 
Yeah, seems great fun to me, start a thread, watch people think, gaze and calculate for some days, then simply change the stuff around so they can start over again :goodjob:
 
klarius said:
How about a link placed in every team thread and selecting the shown information via the referer (or an id put into the link).
That would also allow lurkers to see the info when they go via the thread of the leading teams.

Just an idea, to think about if you're bored sometime and don't know what to do. It's fine with me as it is.
Good idea, thanks :thumbsup:. If a competitor tries going via a rival team thread they run the risk of being spotted by our ever-vigilant band of staff and mods. I think the referer is safer, as that can't be replayed from a bookmark, unlike an ID in the URL. And I already have the team thread references in the database to apply to this approach. I'll think about it some more and discuss it with MB.

Don't hold your breath, though. I have some other priorities. :rolleyes:
 
Hi,

I had to download and install the patches for vanilla in order to play.

I downloaded the test save and it looked OK, I saw the sheep.

However now I am playing for real, I still see sheep where I should but I see aluminium where I should see spices, and perls where I should see cattle!

Any ideas?
 
In an attempt not to be too predictable, the changes I make to previous GOTM games will be varied. It is allowed to use your previous map knowledge, and it is allowed to read the spoilers from the original game - since it is not a practicable proposition to prevent it. You are NOT allowed to discuss spoiler knowledge with your team mates, but you may only use it on your turns.

The risk that you take of course is that I have changed the map, resource locations, civs or awarded civs extra units at the start or some other mechanism to make the use of spoiler knowledge foolhardy.

The choice is yours I guess, and how you want to play the game.

The next game FYI will be a new map, but using this ruleset essentially, so the spoiler issues rased here may never surface again. The reason for this is that I cannot be convinced that having a "similar" game played twice does not affect gameplay the second time round, and I believe that this is probably a bad thing on the whole.

Looking to the future, I intend to have a single stable mod for SGOTM into which any "previously played" games will be imported. Some games will be based on previous games, but many will be completely new. But they will all be played with the same ruleset.

I am drawing up a proposal which I will put to the GOTM staff, and if accepted, will implement in the new year.
 
Grayarea: it sounds to me like you are using the resources from GOTM instead of SGOTM. I think you may have actually been looknig at goats instead of sheep. The additional zip file that contains the resources should be downloaded from post 2 of this thread. The instructions in post 2 should be followed carefully.

If this is not your problem, then please PM me, preferably with a screenshot of an area which shows the incorrect resources. Issues like these can always be solved - please don't panic and start playing about with your civ installation. We will fix it.
 
I PM'ed mad-bax about the changed civ trait.
He is refusing to post it, but said that I should do if I feel like it.
He used the argument that he didn't change it, but Ainwood. I don't see any point in this.
I think changed civ traits should be always mentioned in GOTM and SGOTM, especially now that Ainwood's CivAssist is out and everybody able to use it (not our Mac friends), can legally find out about it, after meeting the civs.
I don't want to mention the name of the Civ here, because I don't know, if everybody knows them already.
But I want to say that one of the scientific civs is not scientific.
I advise every team to have somebody look it up with CivAssist, as soon as they meet them.
 
AlanH said:
Good idea, thanks :thumbsup:. If a competitor tries going via a rival team thread they run the risk of being spotted by our ever-vigilant band of staff and mods. I think the referer is safer, as that can't be replayed from a bookmark, unlike an ID in the URL. And I already have the team thread references in the database to apply to this approach. I'll think about it some more and discuss it with MB.

Don't hold your breath, though. I have some other priorities. :rolleyes:

Here's to higher priorities! :toast:

Although I understand the intent in general, it does seem counterproductive to the goals of the game. In an olympic sprint, the runner clearly knows where the competition is, and knows whether or not he needs to kick it up a notch in order to improve his finish. If we are indeed going for the gold and green laurels, then shouldn't we also be free to know whether or not we need to try something different in order to improve our standings? (Perhaps a better analogy would be the Tour de France, since the start and finish times differ, and are compared relatively, rather than with a stopwatch finish as in a sprint.)

Also, isn't part of the intent of SGs to allow the players to learn? While most of the learning is from one's team, there are other more subtle ways to learn from the competition, and the primary of these is from comparing scores, and knowing that you need to do something different, with the more drastic score difference indicating a more drastic need to change something. By altering our style of play, we learn. If we don't know that we need to alter our style, then we don't have the opportunity to learn. In Civ, as in a track race, you don't win by tripping up your opponent (well, except maybe for Zola Budd). You learn by comparative scoring, and seeing that you need to get out of the blocks faster for certain variants, or try rushes versus certain of the AI civs. You can't learn the full details until the game is over and you can go back and review the other threads, but do many of us really do that? Then again, with these wonderful (SGoTM) games being back to back, do we have the time or interest to do so? (Then again, we've proven that we're a thorough and methodical - and slow - team... :mischief: ).

I for one, would like to see the scores returned to the chart. Otherwise, it does little for me. Although the graph is nice, you can only compare the extreme upper and lower lines, because of overlays in the middle. Also, restricting the turns to be relative to the most lagging team removes any value to the teams ahead of this bar. There is no reason for them to look at the page at all, except when near the end of the game to see who has or has not finished. In that case, you might as well just not publish it at all.

I would like to see the value of this learning tool returned.

Thank you for listening. :D
 
RAL: The one flaw in your example.. The ones behind will know where the competition is, the ones ahead (timewise that is), won't know... The problem is that one lagging team will keep it short.. So suggest it's changed to third lowest (timewise) instead of lowest, if possible?
 
suggest it's changed to third lowest
Today the window is held back by two teams, so you'd like it to be defined by the third slowest team. Next week it may be three, or four. Would you then ask for it to be changed again?
 
Alan: I thought it was 1 :) Maybe set it to a fraction? 20%? 25%? In my experience,there is usually 2-3 straggler teams, and 2-3 that are far ahead.
 
I thought it was 1
Grayarea just posted a save at turn 33 (they seem to be playing 11 turn sets :hmm: ). Jeffalammar had only reached turn 29, so they are now determining the cutoff date.

But why should *any* straggler teams get an advantage that others don't have? To use RowAndLive's analogy, they would have an opportunity not open to a runner in a race who is falling behind. They can wait for the race to play out, see how the race leaders perform, and run the earlier laps using a different strategy from that which they would have used.

Sure, the SGOTMs are a great opportunity to learn from each other. So take the time to analyse the piece of the score graph that *is* available to you, to see how earlier decisions might have affected progress. Don't use future progress information to take unfair advantage of a team who has played ahead in the game and shown you what's possible. This is a competition, after all :D

Remember the purpose of the page. It's there to make it easy for you to exchange saves, and to record history, that's all. Of course, the system we have come up with is still open to abuse, but we're just trying to reduce the spoiler knowledge supplied by the page. I recommend we see how this rolls out moving forward before we jump to conclusions about ways to change it.
 
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