DJMGator13
Wondering why Builders can't build Roads
To simplify the voting/polling process why don't we have each team cast a single vote.
SGOTM4 A New Beginning - Maintenance Thread
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
MOTH
Emperor
On a topic related to spoiler info: Will there be spoiler threads for SGOTM4 and what will be the criteria for the first one? I'm just thinking ahead of writing up a team summary for the first spoiler...
jeffelammar
Space for rent
As the namesake for the current long pole (Sorry about that, we deliberatly started off with a slow deliberate pace, but we expect it to pick up as we get a bit farther along. )
1. I think that the 20 turn preview is just fine. There is really very little you can do in 20 turns to change your finish date. A change to a different condition would be difficult in this situation.
2. That said, IMO it is unnessary to restrain data that way. In almost every case, a team has selected a victory condition and is going to try to get their best date possible.
The only problem in SGOTM3 was NOT the information on the submission page. What went wrong was that a team failed to choose the optimum condition for getting the "high score." Then information was leaked out that caused a team to realize that it wasn't the best condition to go for.
All of the information necessary to decide on the correct victory condition was available before the game started. At any point that someone actually posed the question, "What victory condition makes it easiest to beat the best date?", the infomation was there. The only thing that happened in SGOTM3 was that teams that should have asked that question in the beginning, were prompted to ask it because another team finished.
Because of this, I think the only thing that should change is that we don't release the "victory condition" of finished games until we are done. This would be perfectly fair since anyone who is done with the game can legally go look at other threads and get the info.
1. I think that the 20 turn preview is just fine. There is really very little you can do in 20 turns to change your finish date. A change to a different condition would be difficult in this situation.
2. That said, IMO it is unnessary to restrain data that way. In almost every case, a team has selected a victory condition and is going to try to get their best date possible.
The only problem in SGOTM3 was NOT the information on the submission page. What went wrong was that a team failed to choose the optimum condition for getting the "high score." Then information was leaked out that caused a team to realize that it wasn't the best condition to go for.
All of the information necessary to decide on the correct victory condition was available before the game started. At any point that someone actually posed the question, "What victory condition makes it easiest to beat the best date?", the infomation was there. The only thing that happened in SGOTM3 was that teams that should have asked that question in the beginning, were prompted to ask it because another team finished.
Because of this, I think the only thing that should change is that we don't release the "victory condition" of finished games until we are done. This would be perfectly fair since anyone who is done with the game can legally go look at other threads and get the info.
WackenOpenAir
Deity
No, often you continuously have the choise between risky and solid.
Imagine:
You need to take one more city for victory.
It is most likely defended by 2 pikemen since every city you took last 20 turns were so as well. The city is on a hill.
You have 2 knights standing right next to it.
3 more knights are on their way to the city, they will arive in 5 turns.
Your battle calculator estimates a 17% chance your 2 knights will win. If they lose, the pikes will heal and you will be in a similar position 5 turns from now.
If you wait for the other 3 knights to arive, you will have over 80% chance to win.
Normally most people would choose the safe way and wait to win in 5 turns.
If however you know another team won in 3 turns, most people would take the guess and have 17% chance to be fastest rather than having no chance at all.
Imagine:
You need to take one more city for victory.
It is most likely defended by 2 pikemen since every city you took last 20 turns were so as well. The city is on a hill.
You have 2 knights standing right next to it.
3 more knights are on their way to the city, they will arive in 5 turns.
Your battle calculator estimates a 17% chance your 2 knights will win. If they lose, the pikes will heal and you will be in a similar position 5 turns from now.
If you wait for the other 3 knights to arive, you will have over 80% chance to win.
Normally most people would choose the safe way and wait to win in 5 turns.
If however you know another team won in 3 turns, most people would take the guess and have 17% chance to be fastest rather than having no chance at all.
fbouthil
Occasional Mercenary
There is another way to insure we get a longer part of the graph: 
the slower teams! 
the slower teams! 
chunkymonkey
Procrastinator
As a member of the slowest team - i say, yes please!!fbouthil said:There is another way to insure we get a longer part of the graph:
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The First spoiler for SGOTM4 has been posted.
If you meet the following requirements you may hit the link at the bottom of this post.
Rules for Posting in and Viewing this thread
1. Your team must be researching a middle age tech.
2. You must have the complete map of the starting landmass.
3. A nominated team member must have posted a summary of the teams game to the limit of this spoiler.
4. No discussion is permitted of any contact made from other continents.
5. No discussion is permitted of any Middle Age resource locations.
REMEMBER: Wait until your teams' summary has been posted before reading or posting in this thread yourself.
SGOTM4 - Spoiler1
If you meet the following requirements you may hit the link at the bottom of this post.
Rules for Posting in and Viewing this thread
1. Your team must be researching a middle age tech.
2. You must have the complete map of the starting landmass.
3. A nominated team member must have posted a summary of the teams game to the limit of this spoiler.
4. No discussion is permitted of any contact made from other continents.
5. No discussion is permitted of any Middle Age resource locations.
REMEMBER: Wait until your teams' summary has been posted before reading or posting in this thread yourself.
SGOTM4 - Spoiler1
MOTH
Emperor
Questions on spoiler info for spoiler 1:
If we enter the Middle ages but are researching Monarchy for a while should/can these turns be included in the spoiler summary until we start research on a MA tech?
Should images be modified so that they do not show locations of other continents? IE: the mini-map at the bottom of the screen shot shows outlines of other continents. Is this ok?
If a civ from another continent finds us or founds a city on our continent can I mention the name of the other civ?
If we enter the Middle ages but are researching Monarchy for a while should/can these turns be included in the spoiler summary until we start research on a MA tech?
Should images be modified so that they do not show locations of other continents? IE: the mini-map at the bottom of the screen shot shows outlines of other continents. Is this ok?
If a civ from another continent finds us or founds a city on our continent can I mention the name of the other civ?
WackenOpenAir
Deity
To save the busy people some work:
-Monarchy doesn't need to be completed.
-edit out the minimap
-call them Other civ 1 and other civ 2 or something like that. not the names.
-Monarchy doesn't need to be completed.
-edit out the minimap
-call them Other civ 1 and other civ 2 or something like that. not the names.
MOTH
Emperor
WackenOpenAir said:
Never mind. We will just include the turns while we were researching Monarchy as no real additional spoiler info occured during this time.
I understand that Monarchy dosn't need to be completed as its an optional tech. We chose to complete monarchy before researching any MA techs and the spoiler said we had to be researching a MA tech (not that we could be researching). So the basic question was: given that Monarchy doesn't need to be completed, can/should we include those turns when we were researching monarchy?
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You don't have to stress too much about this MOTH. The intent is that you do not discuss what techs the scientific AI get, which techs you research first, the location of new era resources and that kind of thing. If by describing stuff that happened some turns in to the MA you complete a story without spoiling the game for other people who qualify for this spoiler, then go ahead.
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Actually, I have both sets of dates - they are generated automatically when I upload a start to the server. I did consider publishing the new ones, but decided against it since having two sets of dates, however carefully explained and separated would lead to confusion and acrimony. After last month I have gone for simplicity. You will have to content yourself with my assurance that the differences do not materially affect the Gold Laurel competition, and since everyone is playing the variant, will not affect the Green Laurel competition either.
FWIW, apart from SGOTM1, the Jason "values" for the SG games have all been different to a minor extent from the original GOTMs, and I decided from the beginning to stick with the original.
In the future, where old maps are "revisited" it would of course be possible to play to the new parameters which take account of any changes I make. I would invite discussion of this.
FWIW, apart from SGOTM1, the Jason "values" for the SG games have all been different to a minor extent from the original GOTMs, and I decided from the beginning to stick with the original.
In the future, where old maps are "revisited" it would of course be possible to play to the new parameters which take account of any changes I make. I would invite discussion of this.
I would like to have the following rules:
- Publish all information until 10AD. I assume, nobody will win till this date and it gives a nice competitive edge to see how you perform relative to the other teams - meaningful for the final outcome or not.
- After 10AD, do NOT publish information about the last 2 posts of each team, regardless of whether it is a win/loss or not.
fbouthil
Occasional Mercenary
Or simply put NA as year of the save for each team pass the cutoff date.
The sort also shows that team offa has a lower "turns after Jason date" than us (team Bede). We can always know if a team has finished when the latest post is a week old. I think the sort should be based on the last score visible in the graph.
The sort also shows that team offa has a lower "turns after Jason date" than us (team Bede). We can always know if a team has finished when the latest post is a week old. I think the sort should be based on the last score visible in the graph.
fbouthil
Occasional Mercenary
Now that our team has finished, can we look at the threads of other teams?
WackenOpenAir
Deity
Yes you can.
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