SGOTM4 - Team Grayarea

I don't think that we need more workers; we have 1 worker per city, and is more than enough, since we're industrious, so Carthage should build a library right away OR start the GL immediately there.

1 worker from the 2 that are near Utica, should go and start improving the land of Carthage; also, mine those irrigated grasslands as we don't need it anymore and the cattles give 2 shields when mined(like a BG).

Be carefull to improve the land which our citizens work(Leptis Magna).

Cut those forests near Carthage, Utica and Hippo; maybe there are more BG's above them(not the forests with the spices).

Utica should finish Colossus, unless we want to trade for Map Making to build the Great Lighthouse(though Ceasar wants almost all our gold if we don't trade Lit); if we built the Great Library, we'll need the Great Lighthouse to find contacts(until now, it seems that we're going to need the later).

We need 2 more units to block the road path for Rome to settle more cities:
- we could send 1 warrior from Leptis Magna and we have 1 more Hoplite on his way to the area.
- Try to "play" with the settler pairs; when they're 2 tiles away, "open" a road path with 1 of our units, and then when the Roman settlers come back to pass, move our unit to block it's path again. We're going to save some time if we're lucky, before they send galleys to settle in our area.
1-2 cities could build cheap units(warriors) to claim all the available settling-tiles in our area asap, before Rome send it's galleys.

Just some thoughts.

@Grayarea; we could farm Elite units, but only Holpites(and maybe archers?) could profit this, as in the next Age we'll use them as pikemen. Right now, though, we need to block all the settling-tiles; maybe we can leave the barb camp untouched and block the other tiles normally - then we'd have to "replace our Elite hoplites with veterans.

On pre-building; one can estimate how many turns he needs to get a tech with a Wonder, and pre-build the palace/colosseum/cathedral to be built 1 turn after he discovers the tech and/or to buy the tech from someone else if the pre-build is going to be completed sooner(you have to check a lot the Diplo screen).

By taking a big Roman city and disbanding a city from ours, it's not worthing at all: we LOSE ALL the culture the Roman city produced until then and Wonders won't add to our culture. Anyway, that city will have very few improvements, since most they'd be destroyed in a war, so it's not worthing it.
 
@ KA Sounds good strat- I like the idea of wasting the Roman settlers time. Never tried that before.
As for workers don't forget they are needed to build roads and become colonies on resource tiles- i.e. ivory. Also they can alway be added to slow growing cities if no longer needed.
 
We need to occupy all the tiles near the ivory with units; Rome couldn't "steal" our second luxury(ivory) by settling there, and we'd have 2 more ivories to trade with other civs, so the cost to maintain those units will pay back.

We could allow Carthage to build 1 more worker, and with the help of 1 of the 2 workers in Utica, start improving Carthage's terrain asap and mining all the irrigated cattles/grass.

1 other city could build a worker so we make the ivory colony.
 
975Bc - ok
950bc - ok
925bc - Ceasar ask Literature. I sad NO. He sad WAR.
Viking city of Nidaros has completed Colossus.
Carthage build library. Utica build GLib.

Now i want to speak with team about war.
Plan A.
I think we must send 2or 3 hoplite to the iron to pillage the road. I think that Ceasar is not ready for war. May be he building legions now. But other units stay near the border.
Plan B.
All units near the border go together to Rome.
 
I'd want to hear everyone's opinion about war.

I think that Hopites at 2-3-1 are expensive to waste them to offence; archers have the same offence, they're cheaper but we don't have any(?).

EDIT:
@Alex Top: Sorry, I read it quickly and didn't realized how things are. Can you post a save to estimate the situation? Just upload it in the server at the bottom of the page and paste the link.

It seems that we cannot avoid our GA as things are, but that is not that bad, actually as it may help us.
Legions are 3-3-1 and only the hoplites stand a chance against them.

I'd make this war to last long if possible( if things are going well):
- Our top priority is to pillage the iron hill near Rome ASAP; don't forget that if we fortify some hoplites in the iron hill, it'd be very difficult for Ceasar to defeat them, especially if he attacks across the river.
- do not attack with our hoplites; wait fortified to get attacked, preferably in a hill; once the iron is pillaged, Ceasar will have only archers/warriors to throw, no big deal for Hoplites.
- I'd continue to build hoplites and send them in pairs and I'd try to pillage every terrain improvement inside Rome's territory.
- When everything is pillaged and the Roman cities are starving to death, I'd build a lot of archers and with the help of the hoplites, TRY to take Rome cities at once: If this plan works, we could build our Forbidden Palace probably in Theveste, exterminate Rome once and for all, and maybe we'll get a Great Leader if the RNG Gods are nice to us :D

btw: don't forget that we can make a false peace treaty, take all the techs/gold Ceasar has, and attack again to finish him off. We don't know any other civs, so, our reputation will remain PURE :cool:

Just some thoughts.

P.S.: I'd suspected that Ceasar would declare sooner or later by demanding something :mad:
 
Rome might not appear ready for war but their UU- Legionaries are excellent defenders.

Edit- Hehe I did the same thing too KA.
Didnt read that Rome had declared war.

Well it's bad for us. In these early stages we should give Rome what it wants to leaves us alone. Too late now though.

I agree with KA- dont go on offensive except to pillage. Try not to send to many pillagers if it will leave us poorly defended.
I think Rome will be harder to finish off than you make it sound though but the premise is sound. Try not to break treaties unless you have to, because if and when Rome knows other civs, even if we don't, the bad reputation still spreads.
 
Hi.
This is save and picture with my strategy. I hope that Ceasar will lose a lot of Legions in the battles for iron. Then we can attack him but not before.

Also i think that Ceasar can change the production of Piramids. Utica will change GLib to Piramids. If you are think that GL is better than explain me.

I will play tomorow evening. I'd like to read the opinion of all players.
 

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This is what I'd do:

- The Roman warrior will make he's move when you'll hit "enter"; if he stays fortified and don't attacks, take him out with the Hoplite.

- change Garthage to Hoplite, and keep pumping Hoplites only. btw: I don't understand why we're roading the forest and not choping it to find more BG's. Forests have slow growth rate when worked. Also, I'd mine the cow to give us 1 more shield.

- I'd change Theveste to build archers only. Hippo can build it's barracks and then archers also, and make sure to work the BG's when mined(to change from non-BG tiles, that is).

- I'd use archers to attack only, and Hoplites to pillage and stay fortified when enemies approaching.

- I'd split the unit-wall to 2 groups; first group would be(from west to east) 1 warrior and 3 Hoplites and go to pillage the iron asap. Second group would be the eastern-most Hoplite/warrior to pillage Antium and stay fortified in one hill to make sure that we block units from there, or, if the first group fails to pillage the iron, go and pillage it.

- Utica should keep with the GL, as it's more important than the Pyramids.

Good luck.
 
The wisdom I can give is of a very very limited nature ;)

I hope it works out OK Alex, and I am glad it happened on your turn and not mine!

Whatever you do, know that you are doing a better job than I would have :goodjob:
 
@AlexTop:
Pyramids give 2 things: 1. Granary in every city on the continent. 2. Culture. When you have small amount of cities, it's usually more cheaper to build a granary in each city. As to the culture, GL will produce more culture per turn. If we will build GL, we could switch-off research for a while, but first we need some contacts.
 
My opinion is next:
Since our defense is better then offence - we need to make a defensive war. What I mean, we should win battles while we are defending. We should avoid to attack anyone who have def.value more then 1 not in forest/jungle/hill/mountain/river. Attack only on open place to units like warriors/archers, but no swordsmen/spearman. And pillage, pillage, pillage.
I'm sure that after not long time Rome will ask for peace, and this is a place where we could take Mapmaking. :)
 
I'd also like to add to what Sir_Ortin said that:

1) false peace treaty is something to BEAR in mind, and we definetly should do it, if things go well. Let Ceasar to enjoy his last minutes on this world by taking his techs and gold, and then... you know... :devil2:

2) If all goes well, this may be our only chance in this game to build a Forbidden Palace and if we're lucky Military Academ/Heroic Epic with a Great Leader(the last 2 also give culture).
So, if all goes well, we should strike simultaneously the Roman cities, assign FP in Theveste, form an Army and attack with it, if we get a GL.

Just check when we can build a FP when we take Roman cities, and don't forget to abandon them before you press "enter" at the end of the turn.
 
1. 975Bc - ok
2. 950bc - ok
3. 925bc - Ceasar ask Literature. I sad NO. He sad WAR.
Viking city of Nidaros has completed Colossus.
Carthage build library. Utica build GLib
4. 900bc - you now.
5. 875bc - ok
6. 850bc - Our warrior kill roman archer near Antium. Leptis Magna Built Temple - barracks.
7. 825bc - Roman warrior and settler came from Pisae. Theveste Spartan Hoplite - Spartan Hoplite. Our Hoplite killed warrior and took settler. Now ellite. Began golden age.
8. 800bc - Mathematics - Map Making. Hippo barracks-Spartan Hoplite.
9. 775bc - Our warrior killed archer near Pisae. Cartage built library - catapult. Ellite hoplite killed archer. Ceasar have no iron now.
10. 750bc - Roman archer landed near Theveste.

Roman archers are regular. Galley - veteran. Legionary - veteran.
Good luck for Matternich.
 
Good turn ATop.
I'll play mine ASAP.

KA- :( You cant build a Forbidden palace with only 5 cities.

I am not sure if you can build/capture 8 cities and trigger the FP and then abandon those cities but probably not as I think it takes a turn to trigger and as we are not allowed to finish a turn with more than 5 cities that's out.
 
@Matternich: you can build a forbidden palace if you have more than our 5 cities; just *select* to build FP from the city screen when it's availabe, assuming we own more than 5 cities(I don't know how many are required for this map), and simply abandon the captured ones before you hit "enter".

That's why I insisted on attack simultaneously the Roman cities, when we're almost sure that we can take most of them at once; I've done this in another 5CC game.

P.S.:Alex Top, it's good to know that you've pillaged the iron :goodjob: .

Beware that Ceasar will get some legions, if he was building them already.
 
(still playing)
KA-
I'm amazed that FP can be built. As I say I thought it was triggered a turn after having 8 cities and not upon having settled or capturing 8. What you're saying is we can, on one turn, simultaneously capture 3 more cities, immediately trigger the FP, queue it and then go back to 5 cities before ending the turn?
Will this only work with captured cities? Otherwise we could do the same with settlers.


If we're going for a cultural victory (now becoming more and more unlikely) FP would be good but at the moment will cost allot of shields.

FP would however be great if resettling a city on prime Roman land which as I have stated earlier would mean building up that as a new city. Not so bad at the moment but by the time we ever remove Rome it may not be worth swapping.
 
0- 750 BC
Noticed Carthage is building a Catapult- not needed. I took the liberty of changing it to granary. In cities which can grow above 6, granaries should generally be built before libraries, and before temples in capitals. Granaries help us grow faster. I know we are at war but it will be a long war and in the long run troops will be made faster with gran. Also a worker is chopping a forest which will be wasted on the 2 turn Hoplite.
Utica will finish GL in 15 turns but a bit of micromanagment and that's now 14.
Check how the tiles are being worked in cities just in case. After all there's only 5 to worry about so its never going to be a major micro-management job.


1- 730 BC
Our Warrior makes ELITE succesfully fighting off a Roman archer near Theveste. Our other warrior defending the road to Leptis M. defeats another archer but is now faced with two more.
'The Greek city of Athens has just built the Oracle.' - I hope this doesn't mean that other civs switch to build GLib, competing with us.

Same Warrior kills archer which is protecting Roman settler- 2 free workers. Our Hoplite kills the other archer. Some strategic troop movements.
Hoplite close to Rome stays fortified.
If Rome is hoping to build Pyramids it can forget it. Another civ is bound to get it.

Move lux slider down to zero as we are losing gold on map making and the garrisons/temples in the cities prevent disorder.

3- 710 BC
Move another warrior from Leptis M. Our warrior dies. Another Hoplite is built and move towards Rome. Move another warrior from Leptis M. into affray.
Hoplite kills a spearman in Pisae and another takes out Roman warrior. Other Hoplite take out archer and makes ELITE.
Bring down tech slider with MMaking still 2 turns to go.

4- 690 BC
Carthage- granary, back onto Hoplites.
Warrior kills Roman archer.

Checked in on Rome (seeing as we have an 8/1 kill ratio) and Ceasar offers Wheel, Philos, MapM, CoLaws and mysticism in exchange for peace treaty, Mathematics, Literature and 248 g. Or either Mysticism or Wheel for just peace.
It's tempting. War is slowing growth but there are benefits especially with Glib which will mean we don't have to trade tech with Rome till Ed. by which time other civs should be around. Besides we need that iron for our future protection during MAges.

5- 670 BC
Change Leptis Magna to Granary same reason as above. Researching Construction (12turns). Worker becomes colony- Ivory.
Change queue in Hippo to G. Lighthouse (28 turns). It makes sense to use the shields from the G.Age

6- 650 BC
The lone Roman warrior hiding in the mountians near Theveste is dead at last. Hoplite kills spearman in Antium.

7- 630 BC
Hoplite kills spearman in Antium.

8- 610 BC
Leptis finishes granary, onto Harbour. 3 Roman archers fall on road to Leptis. Our Warrior dies trying to take Antium. Hoplite suceeds and razes it for 19 gold. That's quite a few kills for that Hoplite it might make a leader soon. Rome will now give us 3 tech and 50 gold for peace. OR 333 G. & Wheel or Myst.
Now Antium is no more, colonies can be built on that wool there.

9- 590 BC
Add a Roman worker to Leptis M.
Theveste (on 6 pop) is now temporararily building granary instead of hoplites.


10- 570 BC- Final turn.
Warrior destroys Roman city of Pisea (with galley) for 20 g. and worker. That worker is heading to the wool.
Rome will now give us all its 4 tech and 267 G out of a possible 333 g. Or 333 g and 3 tech.
They will pay for peace well- but I'm not selling.
Great Lib finishes in 5 turns just before aqueducts appear with construction. Glight in 23.

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm4/Grayarea_SG004_BC0570_01.SAV


Conclusions/Suggestions

Annoyed I didn't make a Great leader but hey- the next player can have that glory.
(If you do before pyramids- hurry it)

We are doing well in war with 14 or more kills, 2 razed cities and only 2 lost warriors.
We can trade for peace anytime.
Use lake bottle-neck to our advantage.
Wouldnt raze Rome capital until there are 6-8 Hoplites even though 3-5 might do it, better to be safe.
Slowly grind them down city by slow city. No need to pump out a million Hoplites at once but always have at least 1 city building them. Let the other cities alternate by building- libraries, aqueducts, harbours etc. Leptis might be able to manage Gwall after harbour.

NB. We are on 0 lux slider but when cities move up to 8 pop they will be in disorder unless wool is colonized or lux pushed up.


I'm done. Write up a bit long but I am used to waffling on :)
 
Good job Matternich :goodjob:

Matternich said:
Will this only work with captured cities? Otherwise we could do the same with settlers.
Click to expand...
I don't know if it works only with captured cities, but you have a very interesting idea here ;)

I can't look at the save atm, but:
this is my "got it".
 
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