SGOTM4 - Team Smackster

[smackster]

Nice progress, all the trading looks good, although I don't have much time to look and can't load the game.

FP in 11 from here is a real bonus. Not sure if there is just one AA tech to get, we should move our archers from the southern border and let some huts gather for the barb uprisings. This would be a nice easy elite training area.

I certainly think we should move Hippo to that high production area just as soon as we can. A leader there, and we can move the palace, although I'm not sure I'd do that as we'd probably want to use the leader for Utica.

Unit support is too high, but not sure I'd disband the archers. Rather why not send them over to fight India, or whoever we don't have a per turn deal with, get their neighbour to join.

 

[dmanakho]

You know fellows, i never looked at the space race to see an entire picture...
it looks like with exception of Russians we have the whole bag of scientific nations...
After all I doubt we will be leading research in this game .
I am afraid i am not going to give anymore stupid advices, I did not realize who we are playing against .

well, may be just one... We'd better be sure after FP we build colliseum (not build but buy or rush actually) and then HG... We must build HG before we build any MA wonder, even if that means researching monarchy ourselves (which i doubt we would need to do), for two reasons - 4 culture points and it is twice as cheap comparing to MA wonders.

Other than that on game strategy - I have absolutely no clue for to say.

A leader there, and we can move the palace, although I'm not sure I'd do that as we'd probably want to use the leader for Utica.

Since we have only 5 cities palace should be cheap to build if we wanted to.
Just lets make sure it is far enough to give us an advantage of palace exploit bug

FP in 11 from here is a real bonus. Not sure if there is just one AA tech to get, we should move our archers from the southern border and let some huts gather for the barb uprisings. This would be a nice easy elite training area.

I thought about that as well, we just have to make sure to protect colonys, if there is an uprising Barb horsemen can make quite a journey in one turn to mess things up. We are 2 tech away from MA - Currency and Poly.

Unit support is too high, but not sure I'd disband the archers. Rather why not send them over to fight India, or whoever we don't have a per turn deal with, get their neighbour to join.

Well we have horses now as well, why wait, lets start skirmishing them. Although i never built more galleys and those were built during my turns were sent to explore.

Oh, and for the Romans - lets wait 20 turns and kill them all.... It is just too messy trying to herd settlers they will be spitting all the time.

..and the last note... I wasn't able to increase spending on research, but somehow we have to make it happen... It's just taking too long researching on 10%, I want to be a free citizen of Carthage republic soooonnnner than later .

 

[Wotan]

Preturn - Switched Utica to produce wealth, while waiting for GL to arrive.

Good of you to spot this! It slipped my mind... That is what makes the handover turns so good, lots of eyes and minds to scrutinize them...

FrontPage palace has 11 turns to go.

Possible to have it in 10! Next turn(or maybe second turn but to be safe do it next turn and move back on the last turn if a surplus is discovered) move a citizen on a plains to the mountain that finishes next turn at Utica. We will lose some food but not enough to have it starve a pop.

After Carthage builds library it can start mass producing horses, Leptis Magna finishes library in 1 turn, we can start building aqueduct. I didn't start building neither library nor aqueduct in Hippo, since we might move this city and establish new one down south. This is opened for discussion.

I would put my vote on the tile SW of former Rome. 2 cows, iron after 10 culture and wool after 100 culture. And, take the settler from Hippo, so we allow the people of Hippo to have a new home. And a couple of Workers, until it hits 1 in size, so we only lose 1 pop when abandoning it.

I tried to MM my best, but i am sure Wotan will find something to complain about. .

Oh yes! Move a citizen from the BG in SW at Leptis Magna to a forest. That opens the BG for a citizen from Theveste, move one of it's citizens to it from a mined grassland and we shave another turn off the Aqueduct.

Finally move the Archers from within Roman territory since it has culturally expanded.

Re. Republic: Maybe, just maybe we should go Monarchy instead? Lets see if it appears before Republic from the GL...

 

[Wotan]

Unit support is too high, but not sure I'd disband the archers. Rather why not send them over to fight India, or whoever we don't have a per turn deal with, get their neighbour to join.

Maybe plan for a move of Leptis Magna too then, to horse/furs near India/Persia border?

 

[dmanakho]

@Wotan, thanks, I note all your MM comments everytime, hopefully it will get better and better...
We do need Monarchy for HG, but I think revolting to republic is better because of commerce and less corruption especially if we want to have remote cities....
I was thinking this morning on my way to work... When we get republic, don't sell it right away, we will have only 2 techs (or less) to go until MA, lets do it really fast, then gift our scientific neighbours into MAs and then we can use republic to trade MA technologies... Having so many scientific civilizations we might be able to get an entire 1st level MA techs in a turn or two.

And another thought on unit support: lets use those archers to eliminate Rome and disband them... We should build horses instead, archers are too slow. We can disband them on new southern city to rush some culture.

 

[Wotan]

I was thinking this morning on my way to work... When we get republic, don't sell it right away, we will have only 2 techs (or less) to go until MA, lets do it really fast, then gift our scientific neighbours into MAs and then we can use republic to trade MA technologies... Having so many scientific civilizations we might be able to get an entire 1st level MA techs in a turn or two.

The GL should give us those tech anyway in a turn or two after the scientific tribes get them.

And another thought on unit support: lets use those archers to eliminate Rome and disband them... We should build horses instead, archers are too slow. We can disband them on new southern city to rush some culture.

All but the Elites, lets use them for the possible leaders they might generate.

 

[dmanakho]

The GL should give us those tech anyway in a turn or two after the scientific tribes get them.

there are 2 cases: a) 2 and more sci. civs get the same free tech and it is good since we get it for free from GL. b) they all get different techs and then trade with each other - bad we lose gold....
In the latter case we'd better of getting tech using case a. or trading using republic and then sell it to those who don't have it.

All but the Elites, lets use them for the possible leaders they might generate.

Concur with that.

 

[smackster]

You know fellows, i never looked at the space race to see an entire picture...
it looks like with exception of Russians we have the whole bag of scientific nations...
After all I doubt we will be leading research in this game .
I am afraid i am not going to give anymore stupid advices, I did not realize who we are playing against .

Unless mad-bax modded this map further, only one of those scientists is actually scientific. This is to equalise PTW/Vanilla, where they are more likely to get different free techs in PTW over Vanilla, which is an advantage to us. We'll only know which when they get into MA.

 

[Tarkeel]

I see the game and will play tonight, waiting for some more comments

 

[dmanakho]

Unless mad-bax modded this map further, only one of those scientists is actually scientific. This is to equalise PTW/Vanilla, where they are more likely to get different free techs in PTW over Vanilla, which is an advantage to us. We'll only know which when they get into MA.

We will have to keep watching other civs entering MA, just to figure out who is scientific and who's not.

@Tarkeel, You are getting a set of somewhat boring turns. no wars, just exploring and building....
When do we want to settle new city? During Tarkeel turns or wait until later?

 

[Wotan]

I think we should take the settler from Hippo as its next build and take a couple of workers too until the Settler reaches its destination. The new city should build culture first to start it's expansion. That will give Tarkeel a mission...

@Tarkeel, since you do follow the thread (right?) I see no need to reiterate my comments from above. I have every confidence you will play your turns to our mutual satisfaction.

Re city placement, I have not seen any objections to my suggestion so I guess we are in agreement the city should be settled 1 SW of former Rome.

 

[smackster]

Yes agreed, to start our new city mission. Is it obvious where it should go or do we need a dot map.

 

[dmanakho]

I agree with plan

Build new city before disbanding the old one, this way we won't get penalized for an additional army support.
Build library in new city right away and sacrifice few but not all archers to speed it up.

and the last suggestion - rename new city to "Wotan's Dream come true"

Should we build workers in carthage again to populate that city faster????

Beware of barbarians, keep our colonies safe...
BTW, i forgot to mention that in my notes. I had a barbarian hut popped up once during my turns, right next to the worker roading jungle tile...
I thought barbarian's can't appear on visible tiles or can they???
I was lucky to have couple of units in reach to kill 2 barbs otherwise we would loose worker and possibly the iron colony.

 

[Wotan]

Just to avoid any risk what so ever of misinterpreting "1SW of former Rome"

@Dman, if we take a couple of Workers from Hippo that would probably more than satisfy the need to expand it. Let Carthage grow to 12 before harvesting workers again. They cost 4 turns to replace there now at size 7-12 but whe it hits 12 we can harvest them just to use the otherwise stagnant growth Carthage will experience.

 

[Wotan]

BTW, i forgot to mention that in my notes. I had a barbarian hut popped up once during my turns, right next to the worker roading jungle tile...
I thought barbarian's can't appear on visible tiles or can they???
I was lucky to have couple of units in reach to kill 2 barbs otherwise we would loose worker and possibly the iron colony.

This is important!!! Thankfully nothing happened this time but: Only military units with attack/defense can stop barbarians from appearing. Artillery, Workers and Settler do not stop this from happening. I have had a Barb.Camp appear right under a Settler in a game so beware!!!

(Beating myself over the head with a sharp instrument right now for not having thought of mentioning this in the thread, but was too sure it was common knowledge, sorry)

 

[dmanakho]

...(Beating myself over the head with a sharp instrument right now for not having thought of mentioning this in the thread, but was too sure it was common knowledge, sorry)

or to re-phraze - "Beating myself over the head with a sharp instrument right now for how much more stupid D-man can possibly be, he doesn't know things that are common knowledge for everyone else"

 

[smackster]

More comments.

Don't overdo the archer disbanding, I'd like at least some spare vets left, to deal with barbs and the Romans. All elites should be sent overseas. We have to keep searching for leaders.

Once the peace with Rome ends, don't finish them off, just keep that city there, they will continue to send out settlers and to give us slave workers. There should be a point where we can disband all our own workers to save unit support.

 

[dmanakho]

and more comments, lets send those catapults to Utica, as soon as FP is built switch to Colliseum and disband them to speed up production a little...
We are not going to use catapults anytime soon are we????

 

[smackster]

and more comments, lets send those catapults to Utica, as soon as FP is built switch to Colliseum and disband them to speed up production a little...
We are not going to use catapults anytime soon are we????

I know you used them in your turns, but do you think they were worth building. I agree that we should make them toast in Utica.

Score wise I note that team offa is increasing their score at the same rate as us although a few points behind. I think we'll find the scoring in this game to be much close that the last as we all quickly get to what is essentially the largest empire we can get. Which means we should to a large extent forget about score and simply get our fastest 20k victory, which is what I think we are already doing.

smackster

 

[Wotan]

I stopped one Roman Archer from attacking by wounding it with a Catapult, took one HP off a Legion and killed 1 citizen in Rome (6->5 so not important for the battle).

Shouldn't we send Archers too to Utica for "rushing" colloseum/(marketplace=happy faces))? Maybe more important than a few turns earlier library in new city?