SGOTM4 - Team Smackster

dmanakho said:
Bach's produces 5 cultural points i think. (http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3wonders.shtml)
And indeed it should be in the list of must have wonders to build, Sheakespeare is another must have wonder with 6 cultural points... Add to that list coppernicus (4 points) and Newton's (6 points) and we have the full list of MA wonders we must have to have.
I looked them up in the game, but have a feeling that civfantics is right and the game civolopedia is wrong :crazyeye:

dmanakho said:
It's not going to work really, on Monarch level AIs won't research for us much... We will be the ones researching and then trading them technologies for GPT... That what happened in my 5CC test games, If i remember correctly AIs only researched very few technologies ahead of me. (Nationalism, Communism etc...) But with trading we will be able to keep our tech slider at 100% and still have huge amount of gold flowing in.
It may well depend on the lay of the land, as my only other 5CC that is still in progress, the AI kept beating me to the MA techs. My 5 cities just could not keep up with them. But their land was good, and they, as you might have guessed was a certain Scientific civ, that is in this game. There is no reason to think they would not do the same here.

My general feel on scientific civs is that I want to have researched at least one MA tech before I allow them to enter MA, so that I can immediately get their free tech.

dmanakho said:
i do agree on the fighting part, but we have to make sure we still can trade, fight one AI at a time and make sure our reputation is good for GPT trades
And that is the trick we don't have to worry about rep until Rome can meet anybody else, which will not happen until somebody gets Astronomy.
 
smackster said:
It may well depend on the lay of the land, as my only other 5CC that is still in progress, the AI kept beating me to the MA techs. My 5 cities just could not keep up with them. But their land was good, and they, as you might have guessed was a certain Scientific civ, that is in this game. There is no reason to think they would not do the same here.

Trading, extensive trading helps sucking money out of AI therefore slowing down their own research... We should be very aggressive in trading in our technologies starting with Middle Ages (that is usually when they start givin good GPT bonuses for techs)
 
dmanakho said:
:sad: Nice thought, but i am afraid it won't work... There is an article i read somewhere on this web site. You can use this trick only if both sides don't know nothing aand haven't contacted other civilizations.... Because we have already contacted Persia and India it is too late....
Although it will ruin our peace deal reputation, i don't think it will have anything to do with our trade reputation. Am i correct here?
You may be right, reputation is a complex area. I tried setting up some test cases to see how it worked, but found that it was not consistent for me to do that.

Ainwood aluded to this in CivAssist as he tried to show some of the values, it appears there are many and we don't know how they work or interact.

So maybe we should not try to do that. Just keep our reputation in tact.

dmanakho said:
Trading, extensive trading helps sucking money out of AI therefore slowing down their own research... We should be very aggressive in trading in our technologies starting with Middle Ages (that is usually when they start givin good GPT bonuses for techs)
Yes, but if we take all their gold they wont research anything for us, and we would get a benefit if they could research for us, as we will be far from 4 turn research throughout this game.

Take somebody like Greece, they may well be the most likely civ to research something. So once we can generate enough cash from the other civs for 100% science, we might want to leave Greece alone, and let them research something. If we keep the others civs poor, they would not be able to buy the tech from Greece, so that only we could get it and sell it on for whatever we can get.

However, we don't want to get the research too far ahead of our wonder building. For instance if we have researched Theology and Invention, and are building Sistine, but have not built Theo's. I would not trade either tech, and would try to slow the AI down. But if we have no wonders to build, then we want the AI to speed up their tech pace to help us out :)

We are clearly not going to research Monarchy in this game, so will have to wait for the AI to do it.

We need to keep this discussion going throughout the game.

Right now we should do our FP trick, finish republic, and then research as quickly as possible to the MA, and then to Theology. I would gift republic to all that we meet. After the FP build colloseum, and HG if it comes up. GW only if we have spare shields/leaders.

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Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that the forum is joining seperate posts together right now? This part was a new post

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And another new post. How many Legions have we seen so far? I see that there is at least one left.
 
@Smackter, Aren't we two chatty boys today :D

I agree about greece, disagree on research times however...
(only the problem here Greece would probably be the one willing to give most GPTs for our techs and i'd rather take their money than let the use it)

With Libraries and Universitities built in all 5 cities and unit support at or below 100GPT we should be able to have 4-6 turn technology research time up until Modern Ages. (according to my personal experience in test games) In modern ages it is not possible to research tech faster than 9-10 turns even when research labs are built, that is when we will need Greece help but not for a long time.

@Team: Please keep in mind everything i and Smackter said in previous few posts is pure speculation that only shows a very broad idea :mischief: and we should adjust tactics during the game depending on situation.

I really like the way game has started. Wotan did a fantastic jobs getting 2 leaders. I hope other teams won't be so lucky.

@Smackster again: I am sorry, i haven't quite understood this phrase: "GW only if we have spare shields/leaders"
 
dmanakho said:
@Smackter, Aren't we two chatty boys today :D

I agree about greece, disagree on research times however...
(only the problem here Greece would probably be the one willing to give most GPTs for our techs and i'd rather take their money than let the use it)

With Libraries and Universitities built in all 5 cities and unit support at or below 100GPT we should be able to have 4-6 turn technology research time up until Modern Ages. (according to my personal experience in test games) In modern ages it is not possible to research tech faster than 9-10 turns even when research labs are built, that is when we will need Greece help but not for a long time.
I remember the time before when D-man accepted everything we said without fuss, now half the time he's disagreeing, next he's going to spot MM mistakes by Wotan and scold him for it :)

Our primary goal should be to get deals in place so that we can research 100% science. Obviously we'll maximise the research of our 5 cities, and beyond that not much we can do about our turn rate.

At that time, if we can stay in front (which will be hard with 5 cities) I would want to manipulate the AI to stop them from getting deals with each other. Although we can't see it you know it will happen, so we want all AI GPT deals to be with us. Any AI -> AI deals may be lost gold for us.

Only once we get into that kind of position, can we designate a researcher for us. So this will be a long time coming.

Tarkeel said:
D-man: GW is Great Wall...
Yes, I mean I'm not sure if we'll have time for building the GW. Lot of shields for little culture.
 
smackster said:
I remember the time before when D-man accepted everything we said without fuss, now half the time he's disagreeing, ...

Moi fussy???? :blush:, Nah never..... :mischief:

smackster said:
...next he's going to spot MM mistakes by Wotan and scold him for it :)
:hmm: That's an excellent idea, since i am playing after Wotan. :nya:
 
dmanakho said:
It superb we have LightHouse, that means until navigation nobody will be able to settle on our island so Carthage land is safe for a long time. :goodjob:

I am afraid this is not entirely true. I checked the map and found a spot where it is possible to move across:
smacksterpassage.JPG

When I downloaded the pic I saw a file named bedesgotm4lighthouse, I guess it means they have it too. ;)

We need to get a ship to one of the two locations to avoid any "intrusions". One Galley is fairly close, suggest moving it there and AVOID MOVING IT AGAIN!!! EVERYONE READ THIS SO IT DOES NOT MOVE AFTER ARRIVING IN ITS BLOCKADING TILE!!!!!
 
Good catch Wotan!!!! :goodjob:
I will make sure to put a galley over there ASAP....
I will also rename a galley so everyone know what it is doing there and won't move by mistake.

Oh, did i say i will play tonight???
 
dmanakho said:
:hmm: That's an excellent idea, since i am playing after Wotan. :nya:

This means war!!! :lol: I have to read through the whole exchange of thoughts you have had, before any official DoW though... :D
 
That must have been intentional by cracker to allow the AI to get across. That is a really good spot, I wonder if there are other area like that to get across.

Roster

Wotan (just played)
Dman (playing)
Tarkeel (on-deck)
smackster
Scoutsout
DH
 
smackster said:
That must have been intentional by cracker to allow the AI to get across. That is a really good spot, I wonder if there are other area like that to get across.

DH

I will try to check for other spots like this one, although it might be difficult to do without knowing where the other borders are...

I will check the map tonight, hopefully persians won't have time to move with settler to our ivory coast, but if they do i am planning declare war on them..
Any suggestions?

Sorry for double post but look at this
smacksterpassage2.jpg


Isn't there 2 passages one above each other??? or am i missing something?
 
Its two movement points for sea, and one for ocean, so it works in that first example as there are two sea and one ocean, in your example there are 3 sea so they don't get across.
 
@Smackster: Thanks! i am learning something new every day
 
We are Industrious and Commercial, we built Lighthouse with commercial attribute...

As soon as we build Hanging Gardens (it has industrious attribute) we will enter our Golden Ages...
It's probably somewhat early to be in GA but we really want to build HG for 4 culture and happiness...
 
dmanakho said:
I really like the way game has started. Wotan did a fantastic jobs getting 2 leaders. I hope other teams won't be so lucky.
Just remember it cost us 8 or 9 Archers, two of them elites. And it is all a matter of luck. Both leaders was generated from redlined Spearmen but one of the lost Archer elites was vs. a red lined Legion and the other vs. a vet.Archer. All Elite attacks were made at odds in our favour. Had we had horses I would have made bolder attacks since we really need leaders for GWs in this game as we did in last SGOTM...

EDIT: Going to bed now, looking forward to waking up tomorrow morning to a fabulous report from Dmanakho ;)
 
Preturn - Switched Utica to produce wealth, while waiting for GL to arrive


T1 530BC Roman Archer from Veii attacks our archer and dies; another archer leaves Neapolis I think I'd like to destroy Veii before making peace with Romans. Checked cities, assigned tasks to workers.

T2 510BC, Leptis Magna finished Galley -> library, Theveste - Library -> sword; rushed GL in Utica. Galley reached remote land; I can see dark green border, but no units or cities in direct view. Another Galley blocks passage to the Persian island.

T3 490 BC. GL is complete. Dark Green borders were Celts, not very advanced nation. I sold them math for 20 gold. That was all they had. Archer kills roman archer and gets promoted to elite.

T4 470BC Nothing much is going on, Indian galley appeared, but guess what, "passage blocker" worked. Our galley moves along Celts coast, another galley up north went east, crossed ocean and spotted a land. All AIs are broke... :eek: Can't make a deal with Xerxes any more... I waited till now hoping to get more money from him, but it looks like he went totally broke and sold his harbor... No trading with Persia is possible for some time. (I am not sure if it would affect our reputation if I made a deal earlier just to break it in a turn or two.)

T5 450BC Romans landed an archer from galley near Leptis Magna; I guess roman galley didn't have a settler after all. Sword kills that archer. I destroyed Veii, no losses on our side. With help of catapults I killed 2 legions, I think all they had. I had one elite victory this turn, but no luck this time. Will make peace with Rome next turn.
I haven't been given instructions what to do with Roman slaves, so I am sending some towards our land and left few to road southern shores and land for easy troop movements, There is one slave roads Jungle since beginning of my turns, I am not sure the purpose but I left it to finish.
Celts land is rich. Galley spotted horses, iron and 2 silks next to each other.

T6. 430BC Oops, Xerxes has construction that is where he must have put all his money. I offered him CoL, Lit and all our money but he won't take it. Our cash register is low only 90BC and +1GPT. More news - No peace with Rome this turn, I spotted Roman settler, we will have to wait until next turn to kill.

T7 410BC. Killed roman spear and enslaved settler. Two more workers. Making peace with Romans. They gave us 2 cities and 2 more workers. Rome is left with a single city. Here comes the problem, Xerxes can trade again...BUT… He would give me Horses for either wool and CoL or wool and 34Gold.... After long thinking and haggling with greedy Persian I am giving gold, may be we could use CoL to trade for construction in future... Switched to Horses in Theveste and Hippo.
The rest of AIs are still broke. We are paying too much of military overhead at this age... I suggest we scrap catapults and archers towards construction projects in our cities and build few Horses instead. A-ha... Galley spotted orange border... We will have to see who is that next turn.
Oh right, I forgot, I had a settler so we expanded to 8 cities, Utica switched to FP and I have abandoned 3 cities.
Last roman city has only one citizen and I hope they don't have spare settlers left.

T8 390BC. Orange border was Ottomans; Guess what, they have construction... Forget it Xerxes, Great Library will give us free construction next turn. Same galley spotted dark blue border.

T9 370BC. I surrounded Neapolis with Archers, although on a second thought it is a silly move, Neapolis will expand in few turns. (LATER EDIT: Actually not silly on the third thought, we need to restrain roman settlers some how until peace deal is over). Galley sees more of a blue border but no units no cities in sight yet. I sold CoL (good choice on trading Horses for gold previously) to Xerxes for furs and 49 gold. I thought I could moves lux slider to 0% but no, Utica people are not happy. I will add one more MP to Utica. I switched Theveste to build aqueduct.

T10 350BC Added horseman to MP in Utica, but people are still not happy. Dark blue border was Babylon. Quite backward nation. I sold them math for 26 gold. Also sold construction to Gandhi for 10 gold. The rest of AIs have no more than 2 gold in cash. One civilization is left to discover (LATER EDIT: actually more than one, i never looked up space race and haven't realized how many are there). Oops, I shouldn't really have traded on the last turn; I messed up my turn records and thought I still have one to go... Good think I looked at the date and it made my suspicious, had to recount... I've done.... Tarkeel is next.

Here is the map:
sgotm4smackster350BCmap.JPG


FrontPage palace has 11 turns to go. Firaxis score - 307, Jason - 407

After Carthage builds library it can start mass producing horses, Leptis Magna finishes library in 1 turn, we can start building aqueduct. I didn't start building neither library nor aqueduct in Hippo, since we might move this city and establish new one down south. This is opened for discussion.

I tried to MM my best, but i am sure Wotan will find something to complain about. :mischief:.


That's all folks! :beer:
Link to save - here
 
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