jeffelammar
Space for rent
Good thing I checked this before playing. I guess we'll pause.mad-bax said:
SGOTM5 - Team jeffelammar
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
jeffelammar
Space for rent
That's right. I was going to do it very early Friday, but that was when I read the stop order, and by the time we were told to go to 1000 BC, I was on an airplane. I'm playing right now and will be posted in an hour or two.CKS said:
jeffelammar
Space for rent
OK here we go first I wanted to make a couple comments on things I didn't notice before, but are food for thought in your next game.
1. The Spearmen - I would not have built these. Given that we are on regent and are persuing a war type strategy, Offensive units are far more useful. Given our advantage when attacking barbarians, Archers are better for clearing them as well.
2. Worker moves - I didn't notice earlier, but it looks like we have been wasting some worker moves. By having both workers doing the same improvement on the same square. For example: At one point both workers were building a road. Normally a road costs 3 turns, so we wasted a worker turn by having 2 building it. Also, sending two workers to build a road wastes a turn for both of their moves. Not a big deal, but it delays the time till we can re-join the workers.
The Save
Turn Log
Turn 0 - 2550 BC - Switch to build temple
Turn 1 - 2510 BC - Workers chop forest. Scouts reveal fog.
Turn 2 - 2470 BC - Not much scouts move
Turn 3 - 2430 BC - Scout reveals the western city spot. Entertainment to 20% as Moscow grew in the IBT.
Turn 4 - 2390 BC - Scouts keep going. Will disband soon as we need $$ more.
Turn 5 - 2350 BC - Scouts still exploring
Turn 6 - 2310 BC - Chop complete. 1 worker irrigates, 1 roads.
Turn 7 - 2270 BC - Disband a scout. Other keeps going.
IBT - Moscow builds Temple -> Archer
Turn 8 - 2230 BC - Entertainment to 10% - no longer losing money.
Turn 9 - 2190 BC - Worker finishes road. Heads to build road to Horses. MM Moscow to use coast instead of forest. Extra commerce still get Archer in 2.
Turn 10 - 2150 BC - Disband second Scout. Worker moves to furs.
Notes:
1. The worker on the fur can either road or build a colony. We are ony 12 turns from the next cultural expansion, so it may not be worth the colony, but an extra lux right now might be nice, I leave the choice to the team and the next player.
2. The other worker should build a road to the horses.
3. When the archer completes, we should immediately switch to the Heroic Epic as a pre-build for Lighthouse. There were two reasons I didn't do pre-building in my turns.
A. I really wanted at least one offensive unit for fight barbs.
B. Given that we only have one city, the Temple allows it to produce more letting it grow bigger.
1. The Spearmen - I would not have built these. Given that we are on regent and are persuing a war type strategy, Offensive units are far more useful. Given our advantage when attacking barbarians, Archers are better for clearing them as well.
2. Worker moves - I didn't notice earlier, but it looks like we have been wasting some worker moves. By having both workers doing the same improvement on the same square. For example: At one point both workers were building a road. Normally a road costs 3 turns, so we wasted a worker turn by having 2 building it. Also, sending two workers to build a road wastes a turn for both of their moves. Not a big deal, but it delays the time till we can re-join the workers.
The Save
Turn Log
Turn 0 - 2550 BC - Switch to build temple
Turn 1 - 2510 BC - Workers chop forest. Scouts reveal fog.
Turn 2 - 2470 BC - Not much scouts move
Turn 3 - 2430 BC - Scout reveals the western city spot. Entertainment to 20% as Moscow grew in the IBT.
Turn 4 - 2390 BC - Scouts keep going. Will disband soon as we need $$ more.
Turn 5 - 2350 BC - Scouts still exploring
Turn 6 - 2310 BC - Chop complete. 1 worker irrigates, 1 roads.
Turn 7 - 2270 BC - Disband a scout. Other keeps going.
IBT - Moscow builds Temple -> Archer
Turn 8 - 2230 BC - Entertainment to 10% - no longer losing money.
Turn 9 - 2190 BC - Worker finishes road. Heads to build road to Horses. MM Moscow to use coast instead of forest. Extra commerce still get Archer in 2.
Turn 10 - 2150 BC - Disband second Scout. Worker moves to furs.
Notes:
1. The worker on the fur can either road or build a colony. We are ony 12 turns from the next cultural expansion, so it may not be worth the colony, but an extra lux right now might be nice, I leave the choice to the team and the next player.
2. The other worker should build a road to the horses.
3. When the archer completes, we should immediately switch to the Heroic Epic as a pre-build for Lighthouse. There were two reasons I didn't do pre-building in my turns.
A. I really wanted at least one offensive unit for fight barbs.
B. Given that we only have one city, the Temple allows it to produce more letting it grow bigger.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
your probably right, but i rarely play OCB regent, or regent at all, as it bores the piss out of me. however, i don't think i really harmed us at all as i did leave us with 1 archer as well. by 3000bc, we should be seeing barbs and we're not which is peculiar.jeffelammar said:
true, but improving tiles as quickly as you grow is what i was looking at. when i left the game, we are at size 5, working 4 land tiles (all improved) and the fish, growth in 3T. no other tiles were improved. by moving both workers to to game forest, we could improve it quicker and get better benefits sooner for our size 6 town (ie road it to get 2 gpt instead of 1). if i split them, i'd only be working a tile for when we reach pop 7, and that's 3+7= 10 turns away. i'd rather improve the 6th tile quicker so we can get the benefit sooner (extra gold for research) than wait. does it waste worker turns? yep, but it ensures citizens worked optimized tiles, which is very important given the fact we only have 1 city. once the worker improvement rate is faster than growth (ie, when we get to size 7 and need 40 food instead of 20 for growth), then i can see spliting up our workers.
also, i would not bother with colonizing the furs if we'll have them in 12 turns anyways. we can dither the lux slider instead.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
grahamiam said:
No problems. Your reasoning is fine. I might not have done it that way, but I did want to make sure everyone knew it.
Sorry for preaching to the apparent choir.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
ok, no problem (to jeff)
let's post a roster so we know what the order is as it's a little early for everyone to know thier spot:
Roster
denyd
grahamiam
jeffelammar
bed_head7 <- UP
CKS <- on deck
edit: xpost with JD
let's post a roster so we know what the order is as it's a little early for everyone to know thier spot:
Roster
denyd
grahamiam
jeffelammar
bed_head7 <- UP
CKS <- on deck
edit: xpost with JD
2150 BC (0) - I think I'll hold off on colonizing the furs.
2110 BC (1) - Move archer out towards mountain, then open up notepad because I remembered I needed to take notes, then my computer told me I was low on virtual memory and crashed. So reloaded, and both workers are roading in place. Olga is worth one person or forty food, so a colony just isn't worth it. Move Moscow citizen from coast to forest and Heroic Epic is due in 25 turns. Will change it depending on how long it takes to research Map Making. Drop science down to 50% for 3 surplus gpt.
2070 Bc (2) - Moved archer to mountain for lookout.
2030 BC (3) - Archer is now fortified on mountain, awaiting barbarians.
1990 BC (4) - Map Making will take 27 turns, and HE has 22 left on it. I hold off on switching citizens for now.
1950 BC (5) - Realize we have a lake in our territory, so we shouldn't have been working coast. Switch to lake for this turn to get growth without wasting food.
1910 BC (6) - Take a bit of a chance, and work two forest for 10spt to get Heroic Epic in 16 turns. Map Making is coming in 25 at -1gpt which we can afford until our borders expand to get furs. When it becomes necessary, we should be able to use the Pyramids as a prebuild. We are on regent after all, and I would be somewhat surprised at an AI getting it before turn 71, which is the latest we should learn Map Making. With growth and furs, we will probably get Map Making nearer to turn 66 or 67, which should make using the Pyramids for prebuild fine.
1870 BC (7) - Roads finish, and one moves to the hill with horsies to road, and the other moves to a forest we are working to get extra commerce.
1830 BC (8) - This shows my preference for using worker turns efficiently over getting the benefits of improvement faster, as it would take two turns to join the workers back into a team at this point.
1790 BC (9) - Well, I hit enter.
1750 BC (10) - Border expand next IT, so we can drop luxury rate down to 10%, I believe. I am not positive when it happens though, so I left lux at 20%. If someone knows for sure if border expansion happens before check for happiness, then we can drop it now. Only 1g difference, so it isn't really worth any risk, just something interesting for future reference I guess.
Moscow is working Pyramids, due in 32, with Map Making in 21. Not much else to say, as far as I can see.
2110 BC (1) - Move archer out towards mountain, then open up notepad because I remembered I needed to take notes, then my computer told me I was low on virtual memory and crashed. So reloaded, and both workers are roading in place. Olga is worth one person or forty food, so a colony just isn't worth it. Move Moscow citizen from coast to forest and Heroic Epic is due in 25 turns. Will change it depending on how long it takes to research Map Making. Drop science down to 50% for 3 surplus gpt.
2070 Bc (2) - Moved archer to mountain for lookout.
2030 BC (3) - Archer is now fortified on mountain, awaiting barbarians.
1990 BC (4) - Map Making will take 27 turns, and HE has 22 left on it. I hold off on switching citizens for now.
1950 BC (5) - Realize we have a lake in our territory, so we shouldn't have been working coast. Switch to lake for this turn to get growth without wasting food.
1910 BC (6) - Take a bit of a chance, and work two forest for 10spt to get Heroic Epic in 16 turns. Map Making is coming in 25 at -1gpt which we can afford until our borders expand to get furs. When it becomes necessary, we should be able to use the Pyramids as a prebuild. We are on regent after all, and I would be somewhat surprised at an AI getting it before turn 71, which is the latest we should learn Map Making. With growth and furs, we will probably get Map Making nearer to turn 66 or 67, which should make using the Pyramids for prebuild fine.
1870 BC (7) - Roads finish, and one moves to the hill with horsies to road, and the other moves to a forest we are working to get extra commerce.
1830 BC (8) - This shows my preference for using worker turns efficiently over getting the benefits of improvement faster, as it would take two turns to join the workers back into a team at this point.
1790 BC (9) - Well, I hit enter.
1750 BC (10) - Border expand next IT, so we can drop luxury rate down to 10%, I believe. I am not positive when it happens though, so I left lux at 20%. If someone knows for sure if border expansion happens before check for happiness, then we can drop it now. Only 1g difference, so it isn't really worth any risk, just something interesting for future reference I guess.
Moscow is working Pyramids, due in 32, with Map Making in 21. Not much else to say, as far as I can see.
Things sound good. I'll probably play this evening.
Border expansion _should_ come before happiness checks, but I have no idea if it does. I'll wait to drop the lux tax unless someone knows for sure.
I appreciate getting a turn when no major decisions are likely to be required, because this variant makes me a little uncomfortable - it is really far from my usual style. Easing in is better.
Border expansion _should_ come before happiness checks, but I have no idea if it does. I'll wait to drop the lux tax unless someone knows for sure.
I appreciate getting a turn when no major decisions are likely to be required, because this variant makes me a little uncomfortable - it is really far from my usual style. Easing in is better.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
We **** me. Sorry. I didn't even realize we had a lake. Stupid me. Once again Sorry.bed_head7 said:
Good job.
denyd
Emperor
Once Map Making & the Great Lighthouse is complete, we should build a couple of galleys and get them out exploring.
I'm always afraid when I'm alone on an island, that the rest of the tribes are busy trading techs and will be in the middle ages when I finally meet them. So I usually go Literature & Great Library and then go Map Making & the Lighthouse. Usually by then someone has already contacted me. Since we haven't seen any barbarian galleys yet, it seems no one else has researched Map Making. I don't remember the barbarian setting on this one.
After Map Making, I'd like to go for Literature then Iron Working. Any other opinions?
I'm always afraid when I'm alone on an island, that the rest of the tribes are busy trading techs and will be in the middle ages when I finally meet them. So I usually go Literature & Great Library and then go Map Making & the Lighthouse. Usually by then someone has already contacted me. Since we haven't seen any barbarian galleys yet, it seems no one else has researched Map Making. I don't remember the barbarian setting on this one.
After Map Making, I'd like to go for Literature then Iron Working. Any other opinions?
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
imho, we'll need to start with 3 galleys, then build more if required. 4 would probably be best since we have to go in all directions to meet anyone (assumed since we are on a blot in the middle of the minimap).
after Map Making, lit is probably ok, but we should time a library build with it's completion so we waste little and maximize the benefit of this optional tech. otherwise, i would go with IW so we know where the iron is located. swords will be helpful for capturing the 1st cities. after IW, maybe we go for a min run at math while we build up swords for the 1st victim?
after Map Making, lit is probably ok, but we should time a library build with it's completion so we waste little and maximize the benefit of this optional tech. otherwise, i would go with IW so we know where the iron is located. swords will be helpful for capturing the 1st cities. after IW, maybe we go for a min run at math while we build up swords for the 1st victim?
I like literature, then iron working. A library in Moscow will help our research efforts a lot, since it will be a while until we have any other cities to help. We need to know there the iron is to get swords for attacking another civ, but we don't need them until we actually have another civ to attack. For this reason, I like lit first.
After that, I think cash will be nice, so I'm currently in favor of a minimum run on something. However, this is getting pretty far in the future, so I expect we'll have other things to consider by then.
After that, I think cash will be nice, so I'm currently in favor of a minimum run on something. However, this is getting pretty far in the future, so I expect we'll have other things to consider by then.
grahamiam
In debt to Mr. Geisel
i know i mentioned we would need swords, but, after thinking about it, horses may be all we need for now. let's see what the galleys reveal before deciding on IW. horseman may be fine as it's only regent and fast units will probably pay off in spades
jeffelammar
Space for rent
grahamiam said:i know i mentioned we would need swords, but, after thinking about it, horses may be all we need for now. let's see what the galleys reveal before deciding on IW. horseman may be fine as it's only regent and fast units will probably pay off in spades
I'm with you. I would concentrate on Horses instead of swords. The only reason I woud change this is if every convienently located AI has a AA defensive Unique Unit.
Unless we have to face Hoplites, Numidian Mercenaries and the like, I think Horsemen are a better bet.
So I would skip literature entirely. I don't want to spend that much time building another wonder, so the main benefit is the library. After we get MM we should be able to trade for what we need anyway.
Edit: For what it's worth, the maintenence thread says that Barbarians are "I'll let you figure it out"
jeffelammar said:
You only worked it for two turns, losing two food, and I didn't work it in any of mine, so we lost two food total. The box would not have filled any faster with the two extra food or any other possible change for the better. So I would say that it isn't a problem, just something that we can all keep in mind in the future.
As for research, let's hope that once we have galleys out and about they quickly find us a friend or two to trade with, and aim for less researched techs. I don't quite remember what we have, but Literature is good for getting a Library and speeding up research. I am still very against Great Library on Regent. We could follow that up with Math, or whatever tech we judge to be least researched by the AI.
denyd
Emperor
If we aren't going to build the Great Library, then I reccomend we go iron working and then aim for one of the government techs (probably monarchy). They will have the most trade value when we finally meet someone else.
jeffelammar
Space for rent
My strategy on research would be this.denyd said:
After Map Making go for HBR then head for Monarchy. The rest of the tree is stuff we can trade for.
As soon as the Lighthouse is done start making Chariots or Horsemen (depending on if we finish HBR before or after the Lighthouse).
EDIT: After 3 or 4 galleys that is.
Given the conquest goal, I think Monarchy is better than Republic, but we should discuss and decide which one better suits our needs.
The other thing is if there are still no barbs when our current workers finish up, then we probably should go ahead and start building roads to the remoter parts of our island. It will facilitate getting units to whatever spot we decide is useful for crossing to other lands.
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