SGOTM7 - Team jeffelammar

While railroads would be nice, I think that we'd better concentrate on winning before we get them, as they are a long way off.

I'm leaning toward cutting off research after astronomy and using the cash to rush sipahi and armies. I'm leaning toward mostly rushing sipahi as I don't think that we'll have great bunches of money and I hope we'll get a nice collection of great leaders to make armies with. However, when we have the cash and the sipahi to put in the army, I think we should go ahead and rush armies. While moving armies with 3 units in them would be really nice for safe invasions, magnetism is still a long way off and I'd rather have the cash for the 30 turns or so it will take us to research magnetism after learning astronomy.
 
I'm more inclined to head down the Astronomy->Physics->Magnetism path to allow for Galleons. A 3-Siphai Army would make the Indian & American landings (I think we'll already be on the Viking soil by then) much safer. Also it would make travel to the American island free of ocean based travel concerns.

Railroads would really help the production base on the home island, but I'm not sure the gains would be offset by the lack of cash rushing attackers that would be necessary.

Speaking of next, I'm assuming the Persian cities on the Arab island are our next target. The a landing on island Persia shares with the Vikings, that could be quite bloody. The good news there is that once we establish a beachhead, the quantity of Berzerk landings should drastically decrease as they'll now have a land based target (which the AI prefers). With the orignal Persian core secure, the rest of the cities probably won't be a major worry. It'll be those Viking units streaming south to our locations that will present the biggest obstacles.

I'm working from home today and will be a couple of days a week, so I'll have increased internet access for a while.
 
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/jeffelammar_SG007_AD1050_01.SAV

Alright, no turn log per se. I kept on finding it too annoying to keep one, so I stopped bothering.

Approximate (within a unit or two on wins) kill ratio was 31-3 for the turnset. Lost a couple knights and a galley which couldn't get anywhere at all safely.

jeffelammar_SG007_AD1050_01_arabia.jpg


Really slow progress in Arabia, which is my fault. I am thinking now that we send the artillery units back to guard Medina, and just let the three armies go wild. That would be a lot faster and more efficient than any other method, as the artillery unit stack just moves to slowly. Though we did manage to raze Arbela, the only thing I really did this turnset. The two unit Sipahi army is over there now, meaning...

We hit our GA in 1020, if I remember correctly. It might have been a turn earlier. You can check it with CivAssist if it really matters. Anyway, cities haven't really undergone any massive re-MM. Nothing is doing Sipahi at 24spt, but there is the possibility that by giving a high shield tile to one city and a lower shield tile to another, we could get two cities doing 34spt and 25spt instead of both doing 30spt. I didn't see it, but it took me a good ten minutes at the start of my turnset to find a way to get Bursa up to 20spt and the city just north of it up to 11spt (to balance the 9spt it had been doing) without slowing production of anything elsewhere. I got it, but it was exhausting.

I sort of had in mind an idea to make the cash you all want for rushing without slowing research. Because I cannot tolerate stopping short of a free shot at Steam Power while only four techs away.

jeffelammar_SG007_AD1050_01_science_tree.jpg


Railroads make thing so so so so so much easier. Look at Gr3 if you don't believe me. It means we need fewer units stuck at home guarding our cities, as we can move our defense when something calls for it. It means faster unit production, and considering how much fighting we have left, it will more than make up for the short term loss in the ability to cash rush. Railroads are the most important thing in AW except for armies. Anyway, my idea.

jeffelammar_SG007_AD1050_01_zululand_coast.jpg


We leave an open city for the Vikings to have. Lets just give it to them. It has no improvements, nothing but the food and shields in its box. The Vikings take it and rush a rifle to defend. Our knight army goes in, kills the rifle and berserk, and for capturing the city we get probably 400-500g, since the Vikings are rich. Every few turns, we repeat. Now, I chose Zonguldak so that our trading route to getting furs home is not broken. But for some reason, Zonguldak has not appealed to them, even while wide open. If the next player could find a trap for the Vikings, though, it would be great. Actually, they don't even have to take the city right off. If they drop a berserk and a cavalry right next to a city we are okay with them taking, kill the cavalry, and let the berserk walk right in. Retake the city and we now have the money to short rush a couple Sipahi.
 
They did something similar in Handy's last SG, crushing ships and bombers specifically.

The Vikings are stinking rich so that makes sense to me. What city are they focused on? Last I remember was Kafa.
 
bed_head7 said:
[
I sort of had in mind an idea to make the cash you all want for rushing without slowing research. Because I cannot tolerate stopping short of a free shot at Steam Power while only four techs away.

Railroads make thing so so so so so much easier. Look at Gr3 if you don't believe me. It means we need fewer units stuck at home guarding our cities, as we can move our defense when something calls for it. It means faster unit production, and considering how much fighting we have left, it will more than make up for the short term loss in the ability to cash rush. Railroads are the most important thing in AW except for armies. Anyway, my idea.
Click to expand...
Let's see where we stand after we get Magnetism... I think we can get it before our GA ends (maybe). Then will be the time to see how much longer it will take to get Banking and ToG.

It is probably obvious, but if we are going to be attacking with the armies, please to make sure that at least one of them retains full hitpoints to protect the others.

Remember that we have to win this one by Domination, so invading America may not even be necessary. Given that, and the fact that the Arab island is almost clear, we definately want to get it filled up soon so the places can build libraries for cultural expansion. (Or we could ICS it to maximize army support.) Either way we will need settlers.

Roster
CKS << UP
Jeffelammar << On Deck
Denyd
Whomp
DocT
Bed_head7 << Just played
 
At the moment the Vikings are focused on Riza-Zimbabwe area, for some reason. But losing Riza means losing furs for that turn, which we can't have.
 
Vikings do no longer build Berserks, so the amphibious threat should be over. Except for some left-over maybe.
Why? Cavs. 6.3 vs 6.2

I for one would capture Persepolis; it has a couple of semi-useful wonders (KT mostly, and Bach IIRC). Just don't station anything important in that city.

And something else: I was surprised how near the seemingly remote island colonies are in fact. With Mag, we should be able to do some serious island hoping easily. And that would be by far more efficient than invading the heavily defended Viking/Persia island, or India.
America is backwards as well.
 
I've played the first 4 turns and will continue tomorrow.

The Arabs are gone. I took Damascus and poofed about 20 pikes who couldn't get back in time. A cultural expansion will give us silks there, so I rushed a library.

The Vikings took Konya with a Berserk and then landed a bunch of units. We got about 450 g when we retook it. I have left it open again. They've landed a cavalry; I plan to let them take Konya again and then retake it.

I'm working on settling Arabia and Zululand, exploring some, and getting Persia off our third island.
 
Just a FYI. If you can get your turns in by about this time tomorrow, then I'll be able to play tomorrow night. Otherwise I'll have to skip or switch as I'll be heading out to the mountains Friday as discussed earlier.
 
Here is the save.
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm7/jeffelammar_SG007_AD1150_01.SAV

Turn 0: Move some citizens around, switch some builds to settlers. Send galley out exploring.

IBT: Persians take a worker. Indians land cav & crusader near Medina.

Turn 1: Kill Persian cav, Indian crusader and cav. Land some settlers in Arabia, move toward Damascus.

IBT: Berserk takes Konya, Vikings unload rifle and cavalry. Vikings sink a galley, Persian cav dies attacking Sipahi.

Turn 2: Bomb Vikings, but mostly miss. Load a knight into our home army. Kill rifle, 2 cavs, berserk, retake Konya and 482 g. Upgrade some galleys for more movement. Kill V cav, Persian cav.

IBT: 2 Frigates die attacking galleys, 3rd kills it. Uskudar starts a marketplace.

Turn 3: Bomb Viking ships, move, MM.

IBT: Vikings offer peace, then land a cav.

Turn 4: Leave Konya open for Vikings. Bomb ships and Damascus. Kill 3 pikes and a spear taking Damascus. Arabs are gone, along with 20+ pikemen and spears that were walking back to Damascus but didn't make it in time. Start a library, disband a worker, rush library - this will give us silks. Build Karabuk.

IBT: Learn Physics, start Magnetism. Vikings take Konya and pull 3 ships into the town. :)

Turn 5: 2 hits bombing Konya. Army kills rifleman, Sipahi kills cav, promotes, takes city and burns 3 ships, netting 488 g. Army kills Persian rifleman.

IBT: Persian cav kills sipahi. Vikings start bombing saltpeter, but miss.

Turn 6: E sipahi kills cav. Build Cankiri.

IBT: Vikings land by Medina and Konya. Persian Cav kills sipahi, Indian frigate dies to caravel. Vikings start Smith's Trading Company.

Turn 7: Kill 2 Viking Cav, 1 Persian cav.

IBT: Vikings bomb saltpeter, blockade medina, blocking 2 luxes from the main island, and land 3 rifles & 2 cavs by Konya.

Turn 8: Rush harbor in Damascus to help avoid the lux problem. Bomb and kill all but 1 cav by Konya. Disperse barb camp.

IBT: Vikings burn Konya - only then do I realize that it was size 1 and uncultured. :( Their cav then attacks again - this feels a lot like 2 attacks to me. Persians land by Urfa.

Turn 9: Kill Viking cav and 3 Persian cavs, generating a great leader near Urfa, which I send to Edrine to build the military academy. I don't put it in a local town, because we might want to build armies and some shields will help.

IBT: See Persian cav and Viking Privateer.

Turn 10: Use leader on Mil. Academy. Rebuild Konya. Build Sivas. Kill Persian cav. Army kills rifle at Pasargadae. In retrospect, I should have waited a turn before attacking, because of the MA.

I didn't manage the fighting particularly well, but we did make some progress. Magnetism is due this turn, so that will be nice.
 
Nice turns CKS :D

So the Arabs join Shaka on the sideline and we start lining up for Xerxes. I'm thinking as long as we can keep building armies we should, filling them with 3 Siphai. Being able to land a 3-unit Siphai Army in India, should be a priority to start pillaging them. If we can reduce them to Rifles & WE (no infantry or cavalry) that would help. Also removing their infrastructure would should put a big dent in Gandhi's economy & science. I'm still thinking we should plan on an Indian invasion Then on to America and the other islands, leaving the Vikings & what's left of Persia unless we need a couple additional tiles to win.

That puts Jeff up with me on deck. I'll be around this weekend and if I get the game tomorrow (as expected) should be done sometime Saturday.
 
Nice work CKS. 20 pikes = 20-0! :thumbsup:
I'm with denyd. I think the Indians have the largest landmass we need to work on.
I'm gone and will check in sometime Monday.
 
CKS said:
I didn't manage the fighting particularly well, but we did make some progress. Magnetism is due this turn, so that will be nice.
Click to expand...
Rock On. I'll play tonight before I start packing up for the weekend. Glad to see we got our Military Academy up an running :dance:

Won't have much more to say till I see the save. I'll just play unless there is something that needs discussion.
 
The Save File

QUick Summary:
Persia has been relegated to the far off island chain.
We have pillaging armies on part of the Vikings and in India.


Turn 0 - 1150 AD
Preflight. Looks pretty good. If I can get 1 or 2 more Siphi on the main Island, I'm going to take the

homeland army over to India to start the pillaging.
Perform some MM. Zimbabwe can build it's CH in 1 with mm and several corrupt cities are using shield

squares when they could be using food. Other than that, not much to change...
Drop Science 10% and hire a scientist in Mugla - Still Mag in 1.

IBT
Not a whole lot.
Vikes land a Guerilla.:(
India bombs our Saltpeter.
Discover Magnetism -> Banking
Zimbabwe Courthouse -> Marketplace (may switch)
Edrine Military Academy -> Knight (Siphi)

Turn 1 - 1160 AD
Attack Parsargadre
V. Siphi kills V Persian Rifle (1-0)
V. Siphi kills C Persian Rilfe (2-0) takes city
Waffle for a while, but decide to Raze

Possible assault on Persepolis (See how bombing goes)
Siphi Army kills Persian Cav (3-0)
Good Bombing attempt assault with a couple) 5/6
V Siphi kills uninjured R Rifle (4-0)
V Siphi kills 3/4 Rifle (5-0)
V Siphi dies vrs 3/4 Rifle (5-1)
V Siphi kills 3/4 Rifle (6-1)
Knight Army kills 3/4 Rifle (7-1)
Don't push attack as I can't guarentee safety...

V Siphi kills the Guerilla (8-1)

Do a bit of MM. Switch taxes to 50% science. Banking in 4. Switch all scis to Taxmen.


IBT
Americans land settler - musket pair on Arab/Persian Island
Indians land 4 Rifles north of Zulu island.
Saltpeter bombed again...
Indians Kill a Caravel (8-2)
Bursa Siphi -> Siphi


Turn 2 - 1170 AD
E. Knight kills Redlined Persian Cav

Second round of Siege a Persepolis
Bombing Trebs 3/6 Cat 0/1 leaving a 3/4 Rifle on top
Siphi Army kills 3/4 Rifle and 2/3 Rifle (10-2)
E. Siphi kills 2/3 Rifle (11-2)
V. Siphi retreats vrs 2/2 Rifle
V. Siphi kills 2/2 Rifle and takes city... Keep it 4 resisters... (12-2)

V. Siphi kills 3/3 Musket and captures the American settler... (13-2)


IBT
Lose Galley I stupidly left open (13-3)
Iznik Siphi -> Siphi
Uskudar Siphi -> Siphi
Aydin Siphi -> Siphi
Mugla Settler -> Settler
Rize Settler -> Cannon

Turn 3 - 1180 AD
Land Knight Army on Forest by Istanbul...
E. Knight kills redlined Persian Cav, but redlines (14-3)

IBT
More Bombings...
No Landings or losses though...
Istanbul Siphi -> Siphi
Sinop Galleon -> Frigate
Izmit Siphi -> Siphi

Turn 4 - 1190 AD
Knight army starts to pillage through India
Advance on Antioch
Taxes down for Banking in 1...


IBT
Viking Frigate kills our Galleon (14-4)
Discover Banking -> Theory of Gravity...
Get Crusader from Knight's Templar :crazyeye:
Edrine Siphai -> Army
Denzili Siphai -> Siphai

Turn 5 - 1200 AD
Knight Army kills redlined Indian Rifle (from the invasion a while back)
V Siphai kills 3/4 Indian Rifle (16-4)
Istanbul Switches to Bank
Taxes back up...

IBT
America wants peace. For kicks I check what they'll give us. Not even a tech, guess all 4 cities is out

of the question.
Couple landings on Arabia and Home...
Bursa Siphai -> Siphai

Turn 6 - 1210 AD
At Antioch Trebs go 4/7 Cat 0/1
E Siphai kills 2/4 Rifle (17-4)
V Siphai kills 2/4 Rifle (18-4)
V Siphai kills Immortal and takes Antioch, Keep it
V Siphai kills Viking Guerilla (19-4)
V Siphai kills Viking Cavalry and promotes (20-4)
E Siphai kills Viking Rifle at home (21-4)
V Siphai kills Indian WE at home (22-4)
V Siphai kills Viking Cav at home (23-4)
E Knight kills persian Immortal (24-4)
4K Army kills 2 redlined Indian Rifles finishing off invasion from several turns ago (26-4)

IBT
Not much happens...India bombs a few times
Our Golden Age ends...

Turn 7 - 1220 AD
No Combat. Prepare to land next to Gordium next turn...
Rush an extra galleon...
Run through and reoptimize now that GA is over...
Switch Izmit to Bank

IBT
Galleon kills frigate on defense (25-4)
Persepolis Galleon -> Library
Ankara Frigate -> Frigate

Turn 8 - 1230 AD
V Siphai retreats vrs Indian Rifle
E. Knight kills 2/4 Indian Rifle and captures Settler. (26-4)

IBT
Lose a Frigate to Viking Frigate (26-5)

Turn 9 - 1240 AD
Knight Army kills Indian Redlined Indian Rifle (27-5)
Knight Army kills Indian Longbow (28-5)
Knight Army kills 2/4 Viking Cav (29-5)

IBT
Viking Infantry land by Konya
Iznik builds Siphai
Get Another Crusader from Knight's templar

Turn 10 - 1250 AD
Siphai Army Kills 3/3 Rifle in Gordium (30-5)
Siphai Army kills 3/3 Rifle in Gordium (31-5)
V Siphai kills 3/3 Rifle and takes Gordium raze it... (32-5)
E Musket kills redlined Viking MI. (33-5)
E Siphai kills redlined Viking Infantry and produces an MGL. (34-5)

Notes:
1. We are 5 turns from Theory of Gravity
2. A we need a few frigates to protect our ships
3. I am using the ships in the area sw of Persepolis to bring units to the Vikings. They have Infantry,

so things will slow up.
4. Next turn we will be able to pillage the last roads to Delhi, ending any trades India has.
5. The MGL has yet to move since I got him turn 10. I think we want another Army, but feel free to

decide otherwise.
6. IMPORTANT: Per #3. The only safe way is to keep the galleons there. If they go west to the west end

of Persia/Arabia, they will be attacked by Viking boats that pass by every turn.

Possibilities:
1. We have 3 armies on the Viking Island. We could put one at the Iron Mountain chokepoint and then fill

in the east part of the island. The army would have to stay there, but no enemy troops would come in.

Then we would have staging areas to continue our slow advance. We could do the same thing further east,

but that would take 2 armies.

2. We can probably start moving on India now too.

3. DocT's idea of going east from Zululand to start down the other (presumably easier) end of the Island

chain is also very possible.

Other Thoughts:
Research: 5 turns from Theory of Gravity. If we get Steam as the free, then I think we stop research

right away, otherwise, I think we research Steam and then stop. We could go for Industrialization and or

Replacable Parts, but I tend to think this will be over faster by freeing $$$ for rushing than by

advancing. (Thoughts?)

Image 1 - The Indian Island

jeffe-1250AD-India.jpg



Image 2 - The Viking Island (Actually looks like a sub-island)
jeffe-1250AD-Scandinavia.jpg
 
And in case it's necessary

Roster
Denyd << UP
Whomp << On Deck, but may not be back in time to take it.
DocT
Bed_head7
CKS
Jeffelammar << Just Played
 
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
Looks good.
I really see no reason to exclusively fight the one Civ with Infantry. IMHO we should start with India, and keep hurting the Vikings; it's not that we will grab that much territory there.
Click to expand...
I already landed 3 armies and a bunch of Siphai on that island. Feel free to pull them back if you want to avoid fighting the Infantry.

It may be worthwhile to take that island (the more I look at the picture, the more certain I am that it is an island) even though we would have to destroy two cities that have infantry. The troops are in place, and the Siphai army should fare well against Infantry.

Either way is fine with me...

I'll check in in a few hours before I leave. Then the next response will be Monday night when I get back.

Have a great weekend.
 
Nice worrk on Persia Jeff :goodjob:

A couple of thoughts based on what is visible. It looks like that might be a detached island, so razing Oslo & Birka would make the entire island available to us.

What might be a good idea is to pillage the entire Viking homeland while razing targets of opportunity (size 5 citites defended by rifles). The key to success will be the size of the cities and the number of infantry defenders (and how long it'll take to disconnect the rubber when we can't see it).

On the mini-map I'm noticing that the Vikings seem to be on both sides of America. What seems possible there is to raze & replace the Viking outposts then start on America while taking on India. I think if we can pillage the Indian homelands, the cities will fall rather easily. Siphai against Rifles are really in our favor. Also if we can get a city or two on the Viking landmass, we might be able to slow their amphib invasions.

If the Vikings have Infantry, then they are probably getting pretty close to combustion, which I think means destroyers. We'll need to be careful of our ships once they appear. A SEA with Magellan's gives DD's quite a range in normal games, but with differential movement, they can really cover a lot of tiles.

[My location today allow CFC access, so I'll check again later to see what's going on]
 
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