SGOTM7 - Team Obormot

[mad-bax]

SGOTM7 - Team Obormot

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Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Ottomans
World size - 80 wide by 80 high. (Small)
Difficulty - Deity
Landform - Archepelago
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game. The SGOTM Reference thread contains all the files and links you need to install the small mod for PTW/C3C and rather larger mod for vanilla. There are test saves too so you can check your installation.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
SGOTM Reference Thread.
Upload Save to Server
Download Save from Server


This Months' sponsored variant is Always War Deity (AWD) the rules for which are as follows.

1. You must declare war on each Civilisation by the end of the turn you make that contact.
2. You must remain at war with each Civilisation until the end of the game, or until that Civilisation is destroyed.
3. You may trade with a Civilisation on the turn you make contact and before declaring war, but you may not establish any embassies.
4. No turn based (gpt) deals are permitted.
5. You must win by Domination.

Note: PTW and Vanilla players are not permitted to leader rush Great Wonders Before the year 1000BC for this game.

 

[markh]

Hi mates,

Reporting in. I am ready to go. Looking forward to play my first SGOTM with this team.

 

[Obormot]

Hi everybody

Now it's time to discuss the strategy and some technical issues.

As i see it, the strategy depends drasticaly on whether we are alone on our island or not. If we are alone then we have time until other civs discover Map Making during which we can expand peacefully and just fill our island with cities. If there are AI civs on our island then we have to build only a few cities (3-5) and start building archers straight away. As the map is hand-made, i expect that we're alone, cause this case is definitely easier and i just don't think that they chose to make the more difficult map for a deity game. But i don't think that we can base our strategy on that anyway. If it was a normal game, i would suggest fast exploration to find this out, but in AW game we'll have to declare war on any civ we find, and if we find someone on our island without enough military units we'll be eliminated by the AI starting units. I don't know what we have to do here, maybe markh knows, cause he sais, that he is used to playing AWE.

In any case we'll have to build a few cities, so we can discuss the starting location. It seems to be pretty good, those strange animals seem to be equavilent to cows and that big seashell is useless on despotism and without a harbour, if i understood the thread about GOTM resources correctly. Since they are on plains, they'll give +1 food when irrigated. This means that we can construct a settler/worker factories with 4-3-3 growth cycle. Unfortunately the sheep is located in such a way that we can share only one of the two tiles. (But again, if we're not alone we better squeeze 2 settlers ASAP and start building barracks and archers.) Unless there are foggazers in our team, that see something extraordinary, i suggest settling in place and building second city 2SE so that we can share the sheep. If no other food resources around it'll have 3-3-2-2 growth cycle.

Another problem is that research will be very difficult, because we can only trade with each AI civ once. So it seems that the only way for us to get techs is to have the GL. We have to decide if we're gonna build it or capture it. I think building it is safer and we shoul do it. It is deity, so we have to start a prebuild ASAP. We know Masonry, so we can use a palace prebuild, but it costs only 100 shields at the beginning. (Anyone knows what does the palace cost depend on?)
Anyway we can start building Piramids and when AI builds it (surely before we discover Literature) switch to Palace that would hopefully cost more at that time, and switch to GL, when we discover Literature. We'll have to discover writing and literature for ourselves, cause if the ai knows literature before we build the GL our chances for finishing it first go down, and beside that we propably won't be able to trade for it. And since we cannot build curraghs when we don't know alphabet, i am afraid, that we'll have to discover alphabet for ourselves too.
So what tech should we research first? I think we should go for Alphabet, so that we can build curraghs ASAP and trade for Pottery and Warrior code with civs on other islands before declaring war on them (but we should check F10 first, of course).

Build sequence that i suggest: 2 warriors to explore (Not looking for other civs, but for good city locations. No MP, use the luxury slider!), settler (should be finished one turn after city growth to size 3 if the worker starts irrigating sheep without building roads), then curragh.

So here is a list of questions, please write what you think about it.

1. Can we assume that we're alone on an island?
2. Where should we settle and build second city?
3. Should we build the GL?
4. What tech should we research?
5. Build sequence.

Now about the technical part.

Following mad-bax's advice i'll now PM all team members (except markh, as he already checked in) so that they check in.

We'll have to decide how many turns should each player make and make up some roster. Does anyone want to play first? I suggest that we'll play for 20 turns at the beginning and change this number later. And if the player encounters some unexpected situation, he has to stop playing (even if he just made one turn), and post here what happened, so that we can discuss it.

Can anyone think of a name for our team? I don't like the idea of my nick being put on the list (propably somewhere at the bottom) as a team name. By the way, if anyone ants to be the team captain, i'll gladly give my place to someone else.

Post any suggestions.

 

[Obormot]

Recently there was an interesting conversation in the maintenance thread. Markh asked if the AW rules mean that we have to declare war as soon as we see someone in F4 screen, or that we can wait untill that civ contacts us.

Here is the answer:

Yes it is different. In SGOTM3 I tried to relax the rules a little because the map was so tough. This got me into hot water.

This game plays by the standard AW rules.

I haven't played SGOTM3, but it seems that there he had to relax the rules, because there were AI civs nearby, and he had to give players time in such a way. But in SGOTM7 the rules are standard AW, which means that we have to declare war on AI civs as soon as we see them in F4 screen.
I think that this means that we are indeed alone on our island.

 

[markh]

I expect one enemy civ on our island at max. I made some test runs with the settings of this game and it was impossible to handle two civs at AW on this level in the beginning. With a good starting location I could handle one enemy quite well, but if a second followed early I never had a chance. The tech race will be quite fast if the AI civs get to know each other quickly. I would also suggest to try to build the GL. As we are not allowed to trade after the first contact this will be the only way to keep up. Alphabet seems to be the tech to research first for curraghs. If we encounter another civ on our island then we should consider to switch to Warrior Code.
The starting position looks good, so settling in place will be ok in my opinion. For city spacing I would do CxxC, so we can shift troops from town to town in one turn. Where to put the second city we should discuss after settling as then we get to know the surroundings better. Two Warriors first would be my choice, too.
10 or 20 turns ? Both would be ok for me.

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

Hello, everybody.

1. Can we assume that we're alone on an island?
2. Where should we settle and build second city?
3. Should we build the GL?
4. What tech should we research?
5. Build sequence.

1. I'd say it depends on the size of our island. If it's rather large, I can see one AI being manageable if they're far away from us. This is only a small map, though, so I doubt our island is very big. I think it's safe to assume we're alone.

2. Probably on that river, but I'll wait till we've explored some.

3. I think it will be crucial in this game. If we didn't get it, we'd have to self-research in a war-time economy. That wouldn't be good.

4. I would say head straight for Literature. Unless, like markh said, we are not alone on our island, then switch to Warrior Code. But who knows? Maybe we'll get lucky and get a tech from a goody hut.

5. 1 warrior first, then if it looks like it's a large island, build another for exploring. If it's a small island, either build another warrior for MP or something else.

EDIT: Forgot about the turns. Usually in SGs, it goes 20 turns for the first person, then 10 after, until IA, where it's 5. However, if someone feels like playing more or less, that's fine too.

We can decide on turn order when everyone gets here. I'd prefer not to go first, but I will if no one else wants to.

 

[Obormot]

For city spacing I would do CxxC, so we can shift troops from town to town in one turn.

I never used this idea before, cause i usually don't keep any garrisons - all my units fight somewhere, but this game can be an exception, cause we're gonna be at war with everybody and they can unload units at any part of our island. (There is a trick here, but it doesn't always work: if you keep no garrison at one coastal city, the AI will send galleys to it, after that you pull some units into that city and pull some units out of another coastal city on the other side of the island and the AI will turn there, and so on). I don't think we should build any defensive units (i never do it),
*edit: we should build some to invade other islands if we don't get any MGL's* so if we're gonna fight with horses city spacing does not affect our ability to defend, and if we're gonna fight with slow units, then we'll consider this when choosing place for new cities.

1 warrior first, then if it looks like it's a large island, build another for exploring. If it's a small island, either build another warrior for MP or something else.

If we buld something big after the first warrior, we'll have to delay settler production, which is not good. If we pop Alphabet from a GH, we can build a curragh though.

 

[markh]

Hopefully we have some horses around the corner and our Island is not too small. Thought of this spacing as we are in a small world and if we are on Island alone we will not have too much space. We will definitely need a lot of production, so we have to have many cities, but I think we can take this up as we explored some more.
We could build barracks after the first warrior as we start with the respective tech and if we are not alone and the neighbour is near we will be in trouble anyway. In that case a second warrior will not help that much I guess. Obormot you play deity what are the starting units for the AI at this level ? Is it possible to get techs at deity from a goody hut ?

 

[DBear]

Reporting in. Nothing much to suggest except that on higher levels, it is almost always better to settle in place than look for a better site. On lower levels one can afford to look, but there's no time here.

I haven't played with the modded resources before, so I'll have to take a look at them before I can comment.

 

[Obormot]

Hopefully we have some horses around the corner and our Island is not too small. Thought of this spacing as we are in a small world and if we are on Island alone we will not have too much space. We will definitely need a lot of production, so we have to have many cities, but I think we can take this up as we explored some more.

I don't like too tight spacing. OCN at high levels is decreased, so if we build many cities we'll get very high rank corruption. Usually i space cities so that there are about 12 tiles per city.

We could build barracks after the first warrior as we start with the respective tech and if we are not alone and the neighbour is near we will be in trouble anyway. In that case a second warrior will not help that much I guess.

Barracks cost 40 shields, if we build warrior and barracks, we'll get our second city much later. I don't say, that we really need that second warrior, but we'll build him just not to waste the shields. Then we can use him for exploration if our island is large or as MP, if it's small.

Obormot you play deity what are the starting units for the AI at this level ? Is it possible to get techs at deity from a goody hut ?

1 extra settler, 2 extra workers and a bunch of defensive/attacking units (8/4 if i remember correctly). Maybe it is possible, but i only remember getting techs with an expansionist civ. Most common case is people in white and sometimes maps or gold.

I haven't played with the modded resources before, so I'll have to take a look at them before I can comment.

sheep=cow, oyster=fish if i'm not mistaken.

 

[markh]

I don't like too tight spacing. OCN at high levels is decreased, so if we build many cities we'll get very high rank corruption. Usually i space cities so that there are about 12 tiles per city.

Barracks cost 40 shields, if we build warrior and barracks, we'll get our second city much later. I don't say, that we really need that second warrior, but we'll build him just not to waste the shields. Then we can use him for exploration if our island is large or as MP, if it's small.

sheep=cow, oyster=fish if i'm not mistaken.

I din't know that the OCN is reduced on higher levels. Usually I use wider spacing, too. Let us see what island mad-bax gave us.

I agree, we should settle our island as fast as possible. The more I see the starting position the more I think we are alone. It looks like a settler factory.

There are dots beside the resources. The sheep have three green (food ?) and the sea shell has one yellow (shield ?) and two green (food ?), so the sea shell could be like whales.

 

[Obormot]

If the sheep gives 3 food then it's really cool, but i'm afraid it's only 2.
OCN at deity level is 60% in c3c, you can see it in the editor.

 

[markh]

Should we discuss on the opening ? I think the game starts today, isn't it ? I would do the exploration a little bit more cautious than normal as we are playing AW. If we have another civ on our island and we bump into them too soon it will be a short game. On the other hand if we delay contact too long we will have nothing to trade during the first contact.

Should the worker go south first to see whether there is a better spot or do want to improve one of the sheep or the bg right away ? I think settling in place would not be that bad.

 

[Obormot]

My suggestion:
Settle in place, worker goes to irrigate the sheep without roading.
We build 2 warriors, work sheep tile. First 3 turns we get +2 fpt, following turns +3fpt. Growth in 7 turns. First warrior built in 4 turns, 2nd in 3 due to growth. At size 2 we'll have +4 fpt, +5 spt. Grow to size 3 in 5 turns, and produce settler the next turn.
Warriors do carefull exploration, as markh said. There cannot be enemy civs too close, i think. If warriors find something good, send settler there. If they don't, then we can settle second city 2SE, and share one of the sheep tiles (The first city gets 4-3-3 growth cycle with a granary, the second 3-3-2-2. We gain only one turn for the second city, though, so maybe we should build the second city further.). If Alphabet is finished (or going to be finished in fewer turns, than needed for a curragh) start (pre)building a curragh, if we'll have pottery start granary, otherwise start another warrior-settler cycle. Of course that is for the case if we're alone. I suggest that whoever plays first 20 turns should stop playing if he meets any other civ on our island, and we'll discuss that situation then.

BTW, today i got Ceremonial Burial from a GH in GOTM43 on deity, not shure if that is possible in conquests, though.

 

[XoThErMiK]

Just checking in. this is my first SGOTM so please dont be to harsh. I agree with obormort that we should build 2 warriors followed by a settler. 2nd city placement could be discussed upon building the settler and we have a better idea of the surrounding terrain.

 

[Obormot]

The game has started, and some other teams already started playing.
So who is going to play the opening 20 moves?
And what will be the turn order after that? I suggest that in the first round anyone who wants to play from current situation can take the save, and in later rounds we just keep the same order.
The Adjudicator didn't check in yet, if he doesn't appear i'll put him last in the list.

 

[markh]

I would not mind to start, but I would be able to start today later in the evening only. Now I am at work. If I am starting I would post a screenshot after our first warrior explored a few turns to get comments.

 

[Obormot]

OK, if anybody wants to play first and can do it before markh, then he can do it. Otherwise markh will be first. It's a good idea to post a screenshot after first few warror turns.
BTW, can everybody post their timezones, so that we can see what is meant by 'evening' or 'morning'. Mine is GMT+4.

 

[markh]

I am in Germany, so GMT 0. I could start between 7 and 8 in the evening today at the earliest.
20 turns for the first one, 10 for the following ? From my side it is ok, I even would not mind to play only 10 in the beginning, too. Both would be ok for me. Anyway if I will be the starter I will stop in between and post sreens and ask for comments.

 

[markh]

If noone objects I will start it in about 2 hours. Older people need a little longer to get prepared, so all of you still have a chance to keep me from playing.