SGOTM7 - Team Wacken

[Wotan]

If we follow the plan submitted by Xevious and start with a Warrior we should have the citizen work the BG during the first two turns and then move to the Sheep we irrigate. That will land us an extra two beakers from the river commerce. The Warrior will still be built in 4 turns but with no surplus shields.

Just a reminder from the reference thread, so we do not end up with a corrupted game:
Note: For C3C it is necessary to decide on the setting for the game prior to opening the scenario file and to start a "standard" game using these settings. So you must start a game with world size, barb settings etc. all set, exit the game and then start the scenario. If you do not do this then the in-game tech rates and corruption parameters may be different to those intended.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Oh, i did not do that.
I also just checked the tech cost for pottery being ~66 (22 turns @ 3 science), but i guess then that can be wrong.

I did not play anything but build the city yet, so there is no problem.

Edit: i do not think that is related to this game and the saves we use. we don't use a scenario file, but a normal save file.

So i think we will have pottery on time

Ok, i think i'll get the game started tonight and play the first 20.
Few more hours for objections

 

[Xevious]

If we follow the plan submitted by Xevious and start with a Warrior we should have the citizen work the BG during the first two turns and then move to the Sheep we irrigate. That will land us an extra two beakers from the river commerce. The Warrior will still be built in 4 turns but with no surplus shields.

I have to agree with this. I don't think we have any plans to build anything other than a warrior first, correct?

As for the corrupted game, that was for initial creation of the saves, i.e. Mad-Bax' job.

 

[mad-bax]

Just a reminder from the reference thread, so we do not end up with a corrupted game:
Note: For C3C it is necessary to decide on the setting for the game prior to opening the scenario file and to start a "standard" game using these settings. So you must start a game with world size, barb settings etc. all set, exit the game and then start the scenario. If you do not do this then the in-game tech rates and corruption parameters may be different to those intended.

This is just for people who want to use the scenario. Once the game save is generated it holds the correct value forever. You don't need to do this therefore.

 

[Xevious]

Oh, i did not do that.
I also just checked the tech cost for pottery being ~66 (22 turns @ 3 science), but i guess then that can be wrong.

So i think we will have pottery on time

That's two gold in city and one from BG? Cause after we switch to using sheep we'll be down to just the two gold from city center for a good while. That means we won't have pottery in time for turn 16.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

That's two gold in city and one from BG? Cause after we switch to using sheep we'll be down to just the two gold from city center for a good while. That means we won't have pottery in time for turn 16.

nope, thats 3 from the city.
still indeed it is indeed a problem and we cannot follow the proposed build order.
I will make new excel calculations including science tonight.

can anyone tell me how many beakers are needed for pottery exactly ?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

So i got to this:

Requires enough thought that there is a good chance other teams will be a turn later with their granary. Good thing.

Also the road will be ready just in time for the first settler to use. If of course that proves to be a good direction for the first settler.

Edit: found a mistake at 13 we have 2 less production, no effect on the granary though.

 

[Wotan]

Looks good, go for it Wacken! With 66 Beakers needed and 66 beakers gained during the first 16 turns we will only have two tiles scouting going "out" with the Warrior before it needs to turn back to act as a MP.

Suggested roster:
Wacken
Xevious(or Dman)
Wotan(or Offa)
Dman
Offa
Grahamiam (away until 20th?)

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ok, i have started.

3700BC:
I see a zulu warrior on the other side of the water.
He has Pottery, warrior code and Ceremonial burial.
I give them our techs for pottery, Ceremonial and 10 gold. That is the only option to get 2 techs from him. Then i declare.

I move research to alphabet.
I take a good look at the excel sheet to see if things can be improved now that we have pottery. The road that costs one growth turn is built already. It doesn't really matter though, growth is not a limitation, the granary finish date is the limitation. The granary finish date cannot be improved, worker turns cannot be saved. I decide to proceed according to plan.

The warrior can go scout

3400BC:
I spot another goody hut. This one is at a safe distance from home, so i open it and get 25 gold.
Also saw a pink border around this time, but it was not enough to enable contact.
also around this time, i met the Indians from whom i bought alphabet for our techs. I then proceeded to research writing at max.

3000BC:
According to plan, the first settler is produced.
Our scout has spoted some interesting tiles providing food for the discussion on where to go with our settlers:
-wheat on floodplanes: 4-0-1
-Olives on hills: 2-1-1
-Goats on mountains: 2-2-1

Also did i find loads of jungle, this game will require lots of workers. The wheat on floodplain should become a worker factory, possibly with the goat mountain and (mined) alive hill to provide production.

Making a dotmap, we must think about keeping corruption as low as possible for that city.

 

[Offa]

Nuts. I have just wasted 90 minutes on my spreadsheet.

Anyway, getting pottery from Zulu's is good, as otherwise it looked like we would have to waste moves building roads, or did that happen anyway to some extent.

I think we should convert the capital to a 4 turn combi factory at some point:

 

[dmanakho]

Excellent start.... You really did your home worker Wacken.
Why don't you also as a captain put a roster together.
I suggest Xevious is next (if he can play) and put me after Wotan.
It is not that I don't like playing before Wotan (actually he wasn't at me much recently), it's just i am having an important test on thursday and after that i will be absolutely free to dedicate all the time to my fav game.

Few mid term ideas to discuss
Are we going straight for philosophy after writing is researched?
What do we get as free tech if we get to philosophy 1st?
Where would be a nice place for Gr. Lib city?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Nuts. I have just wasted 90 minutes on my spreadsheet.

Anyway, getting pottery from Zulu's is good, as otherwise it looked like we would have to waste moves building roads, or did that happen anyway to some extent.

I think we should convert the capital to a 4 turn combi factory at some point:

Ah sorry about your 90 minutes
Growth is reduced by 1 turn for building roads. But that didn't hurt the settler factory since at the moment the granary was build, the city was big enough to provide the production needed.

I really, really, really do not want to even think about a combi factory. Those warriors aren't remotely worth giving up a settler. Giving up a settler is what you do by making the city grow to the size needed for a combi factory. Really this is so damn costly, possibly even worse than missing a pyramids build.

Of course, by the time we have our core settled and we run out of settling space, do with the capital whatever you please

 

[dmanakho]

But dont't you afraid of losing settlers to barbarians?
We have roaming barbs and on diety level they will appear anytime now if not already.
sending settlers with no cover can cost us more than having a combo factory.
Unless we manage to get that second city to pump warriors right away to escort settlers.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Excellent start.... You really did your home worker Wacken.
Why don't you also as a captain put a roster together.
I suggest Xevious is next (if he can play) and put me after Wotan.
It is not that I don't like playing before Wotan (actually he wasn't at me much recently), it's just i am having an important test on thursday and after that i will be absolutely free to dedicate all the time to my fav game.

Few mid term ideas to discuss
Are we going straight for philosophy after writing is researched?
What do we get as free tech if we get to philosophy 1st?
Where would be a nice place for Gr. Lib city?

I haven't thought about what to do after writing yet. I would like to estimate our position at that moment. Estimate if there will be any AI getting philosophy before us, see how our pre build is doing etc...

So lets have the roster as suggested:

Wacken
Xevious
Wotan
Dman
Offa
Grahamiam (away until 22th)

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I am not afraid yet of barbarians. The new cities we build can very likely go warrior-worker with 2food and 2 shields.

A little note, obvious of course, but lets not run any risk of it not being obvious for everyone :
We should not really "escort" the settlers and risk losing both a settler and warrior, instead we should use the warriors we have to scout ahead, lure the barbs away and possibly try to kill them before the settler has to go there. That way, the settler is save even if the warrior dies.

We also have a bunch of forests and we are industrious in C3C meaning 3 turns to cut. We should plan these cuts very carefully to use them optimally in early game. With these forest cuts, we should be able to put out some extra units, maybe even some 20s units to fight the barbs.

For safety, a good start might be warrior->worker->archer/spear with forest cut for the city we are about to build.
Our current worker can then start to work tiles including roads towards where we will build the next city. It would be a great win if we can build both cities the turn after the settlers are produced. (due to the roads)

I am thinking about the spot north of the incense for the first city, the worker roading the BG west of him, then founding the next city there on the coastal plains there in the west.
This is just an initial thought though, i have not realy thought very much about the city placement yet. The wheat is of course also extremely interesting.

 

[dmanakho]

so... who dares to put a dot map together?

 

[Xevious]

Hey guys, I'm not going to have time to play this tonight, if you want to put me further back in the roster, that's fine with me, otherwise it will have to wait until tomorrow night.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

We now decided on the roster, i think we can keep the normal procedures and just wait one day. It doesn't look like we have a dotmap yet either

 

[Offa]

I am happy to go along without a combi factory for a while (at least until my turn , by which time we should have lots of towns ), but do worry about defence. The AI prioritise mapmaking, and we can expect our coasts to be crawling with Impi etc well before the end of the qsc. Perhaps a warrior/ worker then barracks and vet warriors from town 2? Town 3 could start on the great Library after a worker/warrior, and then town 4 as a worker factory by the wheat. If the capital was making warriors, I would probably prioritize the worker factory more.

Just to clarify, as I know Wacken likes republic: we are aiming for Monarchy aren't we?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Yes, we should go for monarchy.
Republic is nice in just about every game except AW.

About the cities, well you know me... I always want to get the maximum growth possible.

I think 1 worker until the 4th city is operational as worker factory really is too little. Therefore, i have the following ideas:

----------------------------------------------------
First city at wheat, our warrior is there now, it is free of barbs now.

Second city (4 from now) for unit factory. warrior-worker-barracks with forest cuts - units.
This will be more than sufficiently in time to defend against AI attacks. That first warrior should work to help scout for early barbs. If we do have early barbs, instead of killing them, we can just let them attack cities and take our gold. But really, we are very early with our settler factory. this second city at turn 24 is a good result. in many games, only the first city is build around this time.

Third city (8 turns from now) for the great library.
The AI simply doesn't go for literature, i do think this is safe.

In this scenario, we will have the worker factory 8 turns earlier. That will end up 8 more turns of having a granary with 5 food surplus. meaning 4 extra citizens. If you want, you could even add one or 2 workers to the library city to make up for the delay in that city and still come out better.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
or
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
First city unit factory with warrior-worker-barracks with 2 forest cuts-worker-units.

then the library and worker factory.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am a bit worried about production at our worker factory though. Can anyone calculate the corruption we should expect there?
Also should we make a pretty complete dotmap and aim to have as few as possible cities closer to the worker factory as possible. Most likely 3. The 3th of those cities (the other 2 being the unit fact and the library city) being built as late as possible.


Edit:
I am at work now, tonight i will see for some dotmap ideas i can come up with. Would be nice if anyone can tell me how to calculate corruption before then