SGOTM8 - Cutlery

[Tubby Rower]

I'm really interested in how in the heck Team Wacken has a score that's taking off so fast. We shall see.

Same way they did in SGOTM7. All out expansion.


It looks like the Greeks & China have horses connected. Gyathaar thought that he was funny by putting the horses just on the other side of the water.... We'll just go get the chinese horses. They won't help anyway right now due to all of the jungle.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

About the builds, would it be worth it to send a few towns over the mountains? If not we could have 2 or 3 towns going all out workers and make the rest prepare a military to go claim the continent eventually.

 

[Tubby Rower]

I would put 1 in the jungle tile or hill tile just north of the mountains just for resting purposes and then let China & Greece settle the jungle. By them settling it if we raze those towns, then the tile that the city used to be on will be grassland and already be cleared. Just settle within one tile of the former town and it should be able to grow a bit quicker.

Then just keep WSton for settlers & the rest either workers or archers depending on that town's specialty. We'll probably need 8 - 10 settlers after any war to fill the land with wooden utensils.

 

[jb1964]

I would put 1 in the jungle tile or hill tile just north of the mountains just for resting purposes and then let China & Greece settle the jungle. By them settling it if we raze those towns, then the tile that the city used to be on will be grassland and already be cleared. Just settle within one tile of the former town and it should be able to grow a bit quicker.

Then just keep WSton for settlers & the rest either workers or archers depending on that town's specialty. We'll probably need 8 - 10 settlers after any war to fill the land with wooden utensils.

I think this is a great idea. I have often wondered about the cost of using settlers and abandoning cities to clear jungle.

One modification I would consider would be to settle up to the dyes or settle the dyes w/ an open shipping lane.

 

[jb1964]

Another thing, I totally forgot to check for iron after the trades. I can't see the images at my current location, work.

Thanks for input (thread and PM) regarding the science rush for Philo. Is it against the rules, after posting the turnlog, to pick up the game at the decision point and play it both ways (science rush and 7 turns out) to see how things might have been as-well-as how they'll turn out in the next turn set?

 

[Tubby Rower]

Yes, I think that potential spoiler info could come from such an action. You could probably play it after we reach the MA but I would check with Alan regardless if you plan on doing such a thing before the game is over.

According to CAII, there is no iron currently visible or hooked up by Greece or China.

On the settlers, planting then abandoning is much too high a cost for clearing jungle. Basically you waste 4-6 turns & 2 pop in a productive city. But razing enemy towns in a jungle wouldn't be that bad due to the flip chance being squashed.

 

[Minute Man]

I don't know if letting the AI settle the jungle just so we can get free cleared spaces by razing their cities is worthwhile. I think we should try to settle whatever we reasonably can, and let our industrious workers deal with the jungle. In particular, we should at least make an attempt at getting the dyes.

And, as Tubby said, building settlers just to clear jungle is a waste. If we're founding a city anyway, though, putting it on a jungle space to get a free clearance is often a good idea.

 

[AlanH]

Thanks for input (thread and PM) regarding the science rush for Philo. Is it against the rules, after posting the turnlog, to pick up the game at the decision point and play it both ways (science rush and 7 turns out) to see how things might have been as-well-as how they'll turn out in the next turn set?

You must not replay in any way that would expose new information that is not currently available to the team. Since you cannot know what may be revealed by a replay, that makes *any* replays of history dangerous until your team has moved on well past the sequence you are replaying. And, of course, you must *never* play forward past the last posted date unless you are actually playing the turns for the team.

 

[Tubby Rower]

So, jb, NO replays please, just to be safe.

 

[jb1964]

OK, "no" on replaying any turns for "after-the-fact what if" scenarios.

I’m not sure who’s up next but I’m anxious to see the near term outcome of our Philo – Rep slingshot attempt. Anxious but not optimistic. If we get the free tech then my question is answered and we made the right call. If we don’t get the freebie then at a much later date I’ll play the research rush gambit to see if we could have won the race.

I wasn't advocating we use settlers to clear jungle it's just that I had offhandedly wondered about it in the past. I didn't think it through as is obvious by the responses.

Looks like there's no iron on our "lands". If that is truly the case then it will propose some unique problems if we cannot put a trade deal in place to acquire it from across the dreaded water.

With no iron on hand it seems like a good idea to gear all our production towards workers and veteran archers, march through the jungle and take out China and Greece. With the exception of getting a hold of the dyes the cities founded in the jungle will be of little value in the near to medium turn.

 

[Tubby Rower]

Roster check:

eldar - up
Tubby Rower - on the proverbial deck
soul_warrior - trying to cut back on processed meat product
Beorn - showing monkey how to type
Minute Man - sorting through cans of SPAM
jb1964 - wanting eldar to hurry

 

[eldar]

...because I can't justify waiting 'til the end of my ten turns to tell you all:

(We could've got Monarchy as well - I traded for Poly in the inter-turn - however we ain't religious, so just the one revolution, thanks.)

 

[Minute Man]

Excellent.

Which brings up a question (something I've been wondering in my solo games as well): is it better to switch to Republic right away, or to wait until we're more ready for it? I usually wait until after the expansion phase is over, because the anarchy tends to mess up my settler factories, but is it better to just go ahead and do it as soon as possible? Any thoughts?

Looks like there's no iron on our "lands". If that is truly the case then it will propose some unique problems if we cannot put a trade deal in place to acquire it from across the dreaded water.

Well, we don't absolutely need iron until railroads, and by then we ought to be able to trade for it from somebody overseas (if we have to).

 

[eldar]

>>> The Save <<<

Turn log:
0 1250 MM WSpton to a forest for a shield boost. Worker from Pearlton. Worker from Chicago. Barracks in WFCity.

IT: D'oh.. Wspton riots

1 1225 MM WSpton back, we lose research otherwise. Disperse barb camp with an archer, no loss of HPs. Switch WKBurg to a barracks.

2 1200 Fortify Warrior "Lookout Boy" in the mountains by the gems - no more barb camps there, thanks!

IT: Wspton Settler->Warrior, Idiot Academy Worker->Worker.

3 1175 This is the moment of truth… (had to say something, nothing else happened of note this turn!!).

IT: Philo comes in. Get Poly+1g from Alex. Hmm, Monarchy slingshot anyone?! If were religious, I'd say yes in a shot. However we ain't so I'll pass. Sell Philo to Mao for World Map+26g - he'll only demand it anyway, this way we keep him happy. But, does anyone else know it.... Republic Immediate revolt gets us 4 turns of Anarchy. Go MM cities for happiness, pull out enough scientists for a decent research rate on Literature.

4 1150 Iron is in the far NW tip of the island, beyond Greece. China have snapped up two of the three sets of dyes.

5 1125 Found Lawn Guy Land (pronounce in your best NY accent - I got this from my wife...). Another scientist is needed, Lit research is now down to 14 turns!

6 1100 Trash a barb camp right under Alex's nose.

8 1050 Republic founded. Go round selling excess reg warriors, then fiddle with the sliders. The end result is Lit in 8 @ -10gpt, but seeing as we have over 200, s'okay. HBR is available, not trading yet. I expect maths to turn up soon as well, then will be a good time to buy stuff.

10 1000 Not much in the last two turns. Pic attached shows Wspton, and the MM situation there. It works at +4/+6 food, and can crank out 4-turn settlers. Beeline towards the dyes, I reckon. Keep the Lookout Boy on station to prevent barbs popping up in the mountains, next play can probably start heading towards the gems - we need the luxes now.

So, the cycle is:
T1 (size 4, 4 food in bin) - work Lambs+FP+boths BGs+forest on growth+city tile = 8 shields, 6 food
T2 (5+0) - Lambs+BGs+plains or grassland+lake+city tile = 7 shields, 4 food
T3 (5+4) - Lambs+FP+both BGs+lake+city tile+forest on growth = 7 shields, 6 food
T4 (6+0) - Lambs+both BGs+plains+grass+lake+city tile = 8 shields, 4 food

There, should be 30 shields exactly, with use of the lake thrown in for the gold. Easy-peasy.

[Edit - the cycle above was, of course, worked out after I took the pic, though not before I closed the game. Feel free to work the lake instead of the grassland, next player!]

 

[Tubby Rower]

OK super. now jb doesn't have to go back and play those turns after the game is over

I'll play tonight after my daughter is to bed (~8pm EDT or in about 4 hours from now). Any comments post em in that time. I'll MM WSton before I hit enter.

I'd suggest everyone printout the order that WSton should work and put it up by the computer and check it for every turn.

For the future, we ought to trade republic to Mao (or Alex) the turn before we are ready to hit them. That way anarchy will limit the amount of troops that we will see.

 

[eldar]

For the future, we ought to trade republic to Mao (or Alex) the turn before we are ready to hit them. That way anarchy will limit the amount of troops that we will see.

Well, at Emp they have a max of 2 turns anyway. However it means they won't be whipping any spears.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

It is not *coughs* in my habits, but let me have a SPAM post of my very own to put this smiley to use: !!!

@eldar's sweeter half:

Ok some content: I guess now it is cats/archers, with a few spears, onwards to the horses source; let's put those forests to use and make tools of mass destruction

How many more towns do we need to make: 3, 4? We'll need a dotmap discussed for the north. I'll work on it.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I wasn't sure about yellow/pink at all, although it is of little consequence. Considering this map is small, we'll probably have a few viable towns in there but not a whole productive continent and this will have to have some weight, some time. We'll be on the road to heavy research and we'll want as many coastal science cities as possible by the sea, so that we don't have to build hospitals to have a maximum of tiles worked.

Red would not need an aqueduct on the dot but would be coastal and have an additionnal hill to work on, at the cross. Blue dot clears a jungle but the cross gives it more tiles. I guess those 2 will be our last "core" cities, so we might want to choose well there.

For the others, I kindof went randomly, trying to put them on coast and river. For that matter, I'm not sure if pink is rivered; if not, by all means, don't use it. We could also try to build a city on the dyes more directly, to have it faster, in case Xinjan finishes a temple anytime soon and denies us the light green spot in the immediate future. Otherwise, light gren would only require a harbor et voilà, Dyes everywhere for the ladies' pleasure.

Edit: I assumed we weren't going to give total absolute priority to getting Dyes ASAP here, so I only have 2 spots that would get them to us somewhat fast, and I haven't taken into consideration a simple rush-to-the-nearest-dyes strategy.

 

[jb1964]

Blue, Light blue, Light green – Dyes, Red “X”......blah, blah, blah

or maybe Blue, Light Blue - Dyes, Red X, etc.

So, we won the race to Philo! Very kewl. And only 4 turns of anarchy. That's a new low for me. Does that belie the difficulty level?

So what is primary, settling or conquering? With iron on the continent do we attack sooner rather than latter? I think so.

@eldar, thanks for the build order

Are the any wonders we want to target? Great Lighthouse anyone?

 

[eldar]

Catapults are a great idea, but for two minor problems:
1) All that jungle and those mountains make it impossible to get them anywhere without building roads.
2) Nobody knows how to build the damned things yet....

[Edit] Re: dotmap. Jungle tile west of the remaining unclaimed dyes - a must. We don't want culture wars over them.