SGOTM8 - klarius
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
The save
Turn Log
Preflight 150BC:
Rush the spear in Caesaraugusta.
Change Newcastle to warrior and rush.
Don't want theses cities undefended.
Byzantium changed to worker. This city looks rather safe and there are lots of forests to cut.
Change MM a little.
IBT:
A Viking galley near Caesaraugusta.
Turn 1 130BC:
Declare on China.
Move troops in.
Trade wines from Greece for RoP+12gpt+change.
If the trade route breaks that's not our fault.
Trade mono to Greece for 32gpt + 106g.
Make RoP with Rome and England. Just to be nice. I don't think we can have war with them soon.
MM and assign worker tasks.
IBT:
Japanese archer lands near Caesaraugusta
Turn 2 110BC:
Make peace with Japan. He would still be insulted with giving towns. So I take a worker, 2gpt and 3g and give RoP.
Shanghai captured, only one spear in the city. We have horses.
Hangchow captured, there where 3 spears, lost one longbow.
Nanking 2 spears killed, there is still one.
I give invention to Rome for silks and change. I don't want to rely on Greece alone for research.
Turn 3 90BC:
Nanking falls. Langbow takes out last spear.
Turn 4 70BC:
Just moving around.
Turn 5 50BC:
Capture Beijing, there were only 2 spears and a warrior.
Turn 6 30BC:
Moving around.
Turn 7 10BC:
Theology->education
Capture Chengdu.
Trade Invention to England for a lousy worker.
Trade theology to Greece for 39gpt+41g.
We currently need all the gold we can get.
Turn 8 10AD:
Capture Canton.
Move around.
Turn 9 30AD:
Not much. Move troops.
Turn 10 50AD:
Beijing flips. Move troops to retake next turn.
Greece hasn't done what they should. They have chivalry now.
Okay, China is pretty down. They would give 4 small towns on two islands for peace currently.
But they don't give Tientsin instead. We will probably never get it (it cannot get much worse for China).
I recommend to capture everything on our home continent first. And starve the population down.
This will lead to Tientsin being the capital.
We can hope that they build a second town on that island that we can get later.
Our overseas towns need harbors so they can grow (they need the lux) and build settlers.
I built a worker everywhere to be able to plant and cut trees.
But probably we should rush the harbors at some time.
Vikings will be a problem. I didn't try anything with them and now it may be too late.
Note that even with helicopters they wouldn't be easy to reach.
We should try to get a town on their island, but they are growing all the time.
Would be nice if some other civ would capture a town on their island, but that's pretty hopeless.
We should probably try gifting 3-5 chinese cities to retake after the chinese campaign is done.
Note Denver is also a chinese city, because it's built with a chinese settler.
When we do this we should also have money around so we can rush units if there is an emergency.
In our core we need aqueducts and harbors. We have already more barracks than we need.
I set New York on a wonder prebuild. I don't like it really, but I also don't really like any other place.
This could still be changed to a marketplace, if we get another idea.
We have a lot trades going on with Greece.
I still see them as our research partner into the industrial age.
But they have already disappointed me once by researching chivalry. Maybe they continue to research the wrong things .
So war is also an option after the trades expire.
I would still think we need the high research course. But it's not as easy now that Greece hasn't researched gunpowder.
Somebody else will, but that will take some time.
I see two possibilities.
One, research banking after education. That should give the AI time to research gunpowder and later they can research astronomy for us.
Two, stop research until gunpowder is around and use money for rushing. Then research chemistry.
FP will complete IBT. Then we should assess what the towns north of the FP should really build.
But I don't think we need any more barracks on our home island.
Our north:
Turn Log
Preflight 150BC:
Rush the spear in Caesaraugusta.
Change Newcastle to warrior and rush.
Don't want theses cities undefended.
Byzantium changed to worker. This city looks rather safe and there are lots of forests to cut.
Change MM a little.
IBT:
A Viking galley near Caesaraugusta.
Turn 1 130BC:
Declare on China.
Move troops in.
Trade wines from Greece for RoP+12gpt+change.
If the trade route breaks that's not our fault.
Trade mono to Greece for 32gpt + 106g.
Make RoP with Rome and England. Just to be nice. I don't think we can have war with them soon.
MM and assign worker tasks.
IBT:
Japanese archer lands near Caesaraugusta
Turn 2 110BC:
Make peace with Japan. He would still be insulted with giving towns. So I take a worker, 2gpt and 3g and give RoP.
Shanghai captured, only one spear in the city. We have horses.
Hangchow captured, there where 3 spears, lost one longbow.
Nanking 2 spears killed, there is still one.
I give invention to Rome for silks and change. I don't want to rely on Greece alone for research.
Turn 3 90BC:
Nanking falls. Langbow takes out last spear.
Turn 4 70BC:
Just moving around.
Turn 5 50BC:
Capture Beijing, there were only 2 spears and a warrior.
Turn 6 30BC:
Moving around.
Turn 7 10BC:
Theology->education
Capture Chengdu.
Trade Invention to England for a lousy worker.
Trade theology to Greece for 39gpt+41g.
We currently need all the gold we can get.
Turn 8 10AD:
Capture Canton.
Move around.
Turn 9 30AD:
Not much. Move troops.
Turn 10 50AD:
Beijing flips. Move troops to retake next turn.
Greece hasn't done what they should. They have chivalry now.
Okay, China is pretty down. They would give 4 small towns on two islands for peace currently.
But they don't give Tientsin instead. We will probably never get it (it cannot get much worse for China).
I recommend to capture everything on our home continent first. And starve the population down.
This will lead to Tientsin being the capital.
We can hope that they build a second town on that island that we can get later.
Our overseas towns need harbors so they can grow (they need the lux) and build settlers.
I built a worker everywhere to be able to plant and cut trees.
But probably we should rush the harbors at some time.
Vikings will be a problem. I didn't try anything with them and now it may be too late.
Note that even with helicopters they wouldn't be easy to reach.
We should try to get a town on their island, but they are growing all the time.
Would be nice if some other civ would capture a town on their island, but that's pretty hopeless.
We should probably try gifting 3-5 chinese cities to retake after the chinese campaign is done.
Note Denver is also a chinese city, because it's built with a chinese settler.
When we do this we should also have money around so we can rush units if there is an emergency.
In our core we need aqueducts and harbors. We have already more barracks than we need.
I set New York on a wonder prebuild. I don't like it really, but I also don't really like any other place.
This could still be changed to a marketplace, if we get another idea.
We have a lot trades going on with Greece.
I still see them as our research partner into the industrial age.
But they have already disappointed me once by researching chivalry. Maybe they continue to research the wrong things
.So war is also an option after the trades expire.
I would still think we need the high research course. But it's not as easy now that Greece hasn't researched gunpowder.
Somebody else will, but that will take some time.
I see two possibilities.
One, research banking after education. That should give the AI time to research gunpowder and later they can research astronomy for us.
Two, stop research until gunpowder is around and use money for rushing. Then research chemistry.
FP will complete IBT. Then we should assess what the towns north of the FP should really build.
But I don't think we need any more barracks on our home island.
Our north:
Attachments
Nice move.klarius said:
I was thinking about that too the moment I saw the map. It sort of illustrates what kind of difficulty we would have had if we had chosen my original idea about stopping reearch in the MA. Note: it is a fact that they will not build another town on that island unless we raze Nanking.klarius said:
Definitely. But if we get a town on their island it needs culture asap or will flip.klarius said:
But Seattle should be changed to university prebuild or marketplace, or it will have a worthless aquaduct for around 14 turns. In fact the Houston acquaduct also seems premature, especially since the workers are currently improving a mountain tile.klarius said:
Good plan. Nice to see the FP becoming a reality. I doubt that I would have had the patience to nurture Miami if I had played this game alone. Edit: In case someone didn't noticeklarius said:We have a lot trades going on with Greece.
I still see them as our research partner into the industrial age.
But they have already disappointed me once by researching chivalry. Maybe they continue to research the wrong things
So war is also an option after the trades expire.
I would still think we need the high research course. But it's not as easy now that Greece hasn't researched gunpowder.
Somebody else will, but that will take some time.
I see two possibilities.
One, research banking after education. That should give the AI time to research gunpowder and later they can research astronomy for us.
Two, stop research until gunpowder is around and use money for rushing. Then research chemistry.
, I was being quite unclear. 
I mean that plan 1 is good. While we research chemistry/metallurgy the AI should get Astronomy for us. Stopping research could be an option further down the line but only if we use the cash on universities. Researching Astronomy shouldn't be necessary.
Ronald
Emperor
Nice play klarius:
I agree with capturing all chineese cities on our home continent (on a note: Beijing probably has already 2 spearmen, so additional forces might be needed) and get the 4 cities.
Research path: I would go astronomy to build copernicus and after that chemistry (gunpowder should be available) and then the path to MT.
As for the Vikings: We should try the gifting city trick when we have something good to trade available:
The plan would be gifting 3 chinese cities on the small island, line everybody up against the Vikings, retake the cities. Rome, Greece and England together could seriously weaken them.
I agree with capturing all chineese cities on our home continent (on a note: Beijing probably has already 2 spearmen, so additional forces might be needed) and get the 4 cities.
Research path: I would go astronomy to build copernicus and after that chemistry (gunpowder should be available) and then the path to MT.
As for the Vikings: We should try the gifting city trick when we have something good to trade available:
The plan would be gifting 3 chinese cities on the small island, line everybody up against the Vikings, retake the cities. Rome, Greece and England together could seriously weaken them.
I don't think we should delay aqueducts. Rather irrigate some mined grass to let the cities grow faster after the aqueducts complete. I should have started the irrigation campaign earlier, but was a little taken away by the war. 
And retaking (and hopefully keeping) Beijing with the pyramids will let them grow pretty fast.
We should also think about moving native workers back into the core and merge them into cities.
Totally corrupt towns in the north can build more.
One small point I overlooked with flipping Beijing is Houston. It shouldn't grow now, but only when Beijing is back online.
That will save another few turns on growth.
Edit (crossposted):
@Ronald
I don't see why we would need astronomy right away. It will take about 30 turns to collect 400 shields for Cops. Our coastal trade route to Rome is currently also fine.
And retaking (and hopefully keeping) Beijing with the pyramids will let them grow pretty fast.
We should also think about moving native workers back into the core and merge them into cities.
Totally corrupt towns in the north can build more.
One small point I overlooked with flipping Beijing is Houston. It shouldn't grow now, but only when Beijing is back online.
That will save another few turns on growth.
Edit (crossposted):
@Ronald
I don't see why we would need astronomy right away. It will take about 30 turns to collect 400 shields for Cops. Our coastal trade route to Rome is currently also fine.
I wasn't talking in a general sense. Specifically, how can you argue against building a marketplace in Seattle now when it is 14 turns away from size 7? The scarce workers may get it down to around 10 turns, but you'd still be throwing away 70 shields. In the getting-distracted-by-wars-department I am the biggest of suckers, but you have to take the consequences, and the way I see it these are the consequences. But I'll qualify my suggestion and say not university but indeed marketplace.klarius said:
Edit: Ok, forgot about the Pyramids. So that's more like 8-10 turns of a useless aquaduct.
There is an irrigation underway on a tile currently worked by Atlanta. If Seattle is changed to this tile in two turns, it will grow in 3 and then with the pyramids hopefully under our control in 4 again (another irrigation could get it down to 3). So that's 7 not 14, if micromanaged that way.
After the aqueduct Seattle needs a harbor urgently to grow further and to free tiles for other cities. I don't see any benefit of a market before it is size 8 or 9.
Generally I think we have much to low population in our core and put priority on growth, even if it's not really optimized.
After the aqueduct Seattle needs a harbor urgently to grow further and to free tiles for other cities. I don't see any benefit of a market before it is size 8 or 9.
Generally I think we have much to low population in our core and put priority on growth, even if it's not really optimized.
Ronald
Emperor
klarius said:
I agree. Aquaeducts, harbors, marketplaces. Population is commerce is research is money. We should get our core to size 12 cities as soon as possible. The war with China will not last very long, the we can concentrate on infrastructure and rushing some units, harbors, and culture overseas to ensure our precious cities there.
Build up of horsemen for the war with Greece is only second priority.
BTW who is up?
Ronald
Emperor
A few more observations/questions/suggestions at this time:
Detroit should build a courthouse to become a real productive city
Most probably St. Luis, Chengdu and Hangchow could profit from a courthouse as well (I am bad at calculating the actual corruption in these cities I would need to wait what they would do when more shields are available. Can anyone calculate their corruption ?)
North of them everything will be highly corrupted, so we should go ICS style with everything irrigated, harbors and lots of specialists
China has currently no gold, so there might be a chance that we prevent Beijing to rush a second spearman by moving our spear from Canton onto their cow (the most productive tile and keep the spear on their mined wheat)
There is a settler near San Antonio, any specific city site planned?
In order for China to build one more city on the Tientsin island we have to move Nanking 1NW (to keep it at the sea)
Detroit should build a courthouse to become a real productive city
Most probably St. Luis, Chengdu and Hangchow could profit from a courthouse as well (I am bad at calculating the actual corruption in these cities I would need to wait what they would do when more shields are available. Can anyone calculate their corruption ?)
North of them everything will be highly corrupted, so we should go ICS style with everything irrigated, harbors and lots of specialists
China has currently no gold, so there might be a chance that we prevent Beijing to rush a second spearman by moving our spear from Canton onto their cow (the most productive tile and keep the spear on their mined wheat)
There is a settler near San Antonio, any specific city site planned?
In order for China to build one more city on the Tientsin island we have to move Nanking 1NW (to keep it at the sea)
Ciceronian
Latin Scholar
I'm up and ready to play later today. Any further orders?
@Ronald
Maybe look into CivAssist 2
.
You will see that Detroit will not profit much from a courthouse, after the FP is complete (that's generally so for cities close to the FP). Cities a little further north could profit more.
For the settler I had no specific plan. Maybe settle where it is, or move a tile sw to squeeze in even one more town. We should just build ICS towns up here to provide specialists.
Maybe look into CivAssist 2
.You will see that Detroit will not profit much from a courthouse, after the FP is complete (that's generally so for cities close to the FP). Cities a little further north could profit more.
For the settler I had no specific plan. Maybe settle where it is, or move a tile sw to squeeze in even one more town. We should just build ICS towns up here to provide specialists.
Ronald
Emperor
klarius said:@Ronald
Maybe look into CivAssist 2
You will see that Detroit will not profit much from a courthouse, after the FP is complete (that's generally so for cities close to the FP). Cities a little further north could profit more.
Wow, CivAssist is more powerful than I thought. Any other cool things in there?
Lots, by haven't found everything.Ronald said:
Some unique features:
On the world map view there are a lot options in the context menue.
The economy tab allows planning corruption. You can put the FP somewhere and also can add buildings to cities.
Technology tab gives the tech cost for the current game without complicated formula evaluation.
Miscellanous tab lets you plan free palace jumps and also contains the resource locator.
From many places you can either directly jump to a location in the map view or also in the game.
You just have to play around with it.
Ronald
Emperor
I knew about the palace jump planning, but the whole corruption simulation was new to me. That's quite powerful.
Thanks for this info. I will play around with it and if I find something I will post it.
Thanks for this info. I will play around with it and if I find something I will post it.
Ronald
Emperor
AlanH made a new graph at the results page. It shows the territory. We are first 
, but only by a very small margin.
, but only by a very small margin.I am new to SGOTM but this doesn't sound right, Ciceronian. Please judge all suggestions yourself and play according to you own judgement. We are all here to have fun and I would feel miserable if you didn't think you can act on your own. Anyone who disagrees should stick to xOTM, but I don't think anyone in this team disagrees.Ciceronian said:
Another long term suggestion from me is that we should strive for the possibility of not having to research Advanced Flight but just Flight. It's fun to have an option with high odds as well as a safe but good option at the same time.
Consider:
* Advanced Flight requires 10 (ten) more techs than Flight.
* A sufficient number of bombers can easily reduce a city to size 1, thus making it possible to get such a town in a peace treaty. Town size is by far the biggest consideration when the AI considers giving away towns. I know that resourses in the 21-tile radius is another consideration, but not as weighty.
I think a real effort to get a town in Scandinavia is worthwhile. There is a risk involved, and some complications. We need to protect Caesaria and spend cash there. (Unless the Roman legionaries decide to take it the very next turn.
)This implies not giving away the towns until we have built warriors on the small island (no other way to get military there) which means a substantial delay. If the smallest Viking town is size 4 I think it will be hard to get a town. Why not give away some of the big Chinese towns? With Scandinavian citizens there, the flip risk will decrease substantially. We are starving the towns anyway so losing one citizen is no problem.Ronald said:
Ciceronian
Latin Scholar
I'm also new to SGOTM and I'm still somewhat nervous about making mistakes or doing stupid things that would hurt the team, like disbanding that scout. That's why I'm taking my turns at the game much more seriously than I do my occasional GOTM or COTM. It's similar when I play tennis: I'm pretty easygoing in singles tournaments, but I'm much more concentrated and involved in our team matches, and I'm far more disconsolate when I lose there. So I was being careful and asking if anybody would like me to pay attention to anything specific, rather than give me orders. 
One thing I didn't get though:
I don't understand why we want Tientsin to be the capital? If it's the capital then we can't get it in a treaty. And with starving down did you mean, klarius, before or after we capture the cities?
One thing I didn't get though:
klarius said:
I don't understand why we want Tientsin to be the capital? If it's the capital then we can't get it in a treaty. And with starving down did you mean, klarius, before or after we capture the cities?
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