Ronald
Emperor
I am playing this evening.
Ronald
Ronald
SGOTM8 - klarius
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Ronald
Emperor
I will trade literature since I want Greece to help us with our research. Does anybody have a problem with this trade?
I support it fully.Ronald said:
You can start some growth in Houston right away.
I can't believe that those purple couch potatoes haven't shown themselves yet. San Fransisco is scheduled to expand in 21 turns. A temple in 6 t would bring expansion down to 15 t. If borders touch each other, can we use CTRL-SHIFT-D to get contact? If not, a better chance to see one of their ships is all we get. Just toying with the idea.
Are you gonna wait the full 8 turns that are left of the luxury trade before the attack? We can still build plenty of horses before we get MT.
I propose Gunpowder as next tech for trading opportunities, but I'm not sure we should bee-line for MT. It's really a crossroads in our game. Do we go for MT soon so that we can (hopefully) have a powerful unit (cavalry) to rush in corrupt distant towns that we (hopefully) get in peace treaties. Do those tactics have a future - where the heck are all the other cics? Or do we need to go for long term research (universities) plus save a neighbour strong enough to discover the other nations for us?
I propose Gunpowder as next tech for trading opportunities, but I'm not sure we should bee-line for MT. It's really a crossroads in our game. Do we go for MT soon so that we can (hopefully) have a powerful unit (cavalry) to rush in corrupt distant towns that we (hopefully) get in peace treaties. Do those tactics have a future - where the heck are all the other cics? Or do we need to go for long term research (universities) plus save a neighbour strong enough to discover the other nations for us?
Ronald
Emperor
Depending where the overseas cities are that we are hopefully getting, we need astronomy to connect the harbours with sea tiles and navigation to connect for ocean tiles. So in order to rush good units and not just longbowmen, we will need these techs.
I was planning to research gunpowder and wait to trade for monotheism and maybe theology.
I was planning to research gunpowder and wait to trade for monotheism and maybe theology.
Ronald
Emperor
turn 0:
Change spearman in St. Luis to courthouse (I really don't like regular spearmen), some MM
turn 1: Greece made contact with the vikings major trading sessions to follow:
Greece: trade literature for TM + contact Vikings + 15g
Vikings: trade WM for TM + 44g with Vikings, mysticism for MW + 30g, polutheism for 15g + contact with the English
English: trade WM for 82g, currency for WM + contact with Rome
Rome: trade WM for 20g + contact with Japan
Japan: trade WM for WM + 44g
some more trading of WM untill we own every cent there is (we have now 569g)
Here is a picture of the world:
Since this is a major event, it seems appropriate for me to interrupt and get the opinion of the group:
1) Should we try phony wars right away? Or should we wait untill we have conquered our own continent and have the possibility to rush knights or cavalry?
2) If wars, with who? one or more wars? Possible would be would be against the English with Scandinavia as ally (scandinavia looks stronger than England) and against Rome with Japan as the ally or the other way around (I don't know who has better chances, Rome has some Japanese workers)
I also loaded the 330 BC file to the server (before somebody starts to complain it is before micromanaging
)
I will wait untill tomorrow evening (US eastcoast) for input, then I will resume game play.
Change spearman in St. Luis to courthouse (I really don't like regular spearmen), some MM
turn 1: Greece made contact with the vikings major trading sessions to follow:
Greece: trade literature for TM + contact Vikings + 15g
Vikings: trade WM for TM + 44g with Vikings, mysticism for MW + 30g, polutheism for 15g + contact with the English
English: trade WM for 82g, currency for WM + contact with Rome
Rome: trade WM for 20g + contact with Japan
Japan: trade WM for WM + 44g
some more trading of WM untill we own every cent there is (we have now 569g)
Here is a picture of the world:
Since this is a major event, it seems appropriate for me to interrupt and get the opinion of the group:
1) Should we try phony wars right away? Or should we wait untill we have conquered our own continent and have the possibility to rush knights or cavalry?
2) If wars, with who? one or more wars? Possible would be would be against the English with Scandinavia as ally (scandinavia looks stronger than England) and against Rome with Japan as the ally or the other way around (I don't know who has better chances, Rome has some Japanese workers)
I also loaded the 330 BC file to the server (before somebody starts to complain it is before micromanaging
)I will wait untill tomorrow evening (US eastcoast) for input, then I will resume game play.
First thing I would do now is build embassies everywhere, so we know what is going on between the others. There seems to be (or was) some action between Rome and Japan.
England has a weak military against us. I would try a phony war against them. But really with first gifting them a city or two and imediately taking back.
They have several size 1 cities, maybe we have a chance to get one when they talk.
Another candidate may be Japan.
They seem to have some problems with Rome. But they are currently militarily strong against us.
I don't think phony wars without gifting cities are of any benefit in the moment.
On our continent we should look to attack China soon. I would only look for a short campaign without alliances first.
Note an alliance with Greek would cut our trade route.
Another thing, we really should look to build harbors. Everything is coastal linked so we could trade. Many cities need also aqueducts, so it's a question how to balance this with military. But our core cities need to grow and work coastal tiles so we get our commerce up. When (if
) we get cities on other islands we will need a lot gold to rush things.
If we want research help, we have to gift invention to Greece. They could get us gunpowder, while we research the upper branch. Everybody else looks pretty hopeless currently. Nevertheless I would gift republic and currency around, so that the general commerce gets better everywhere.
I think we really have to research up to flight. Conquering all these islands by cities in peace treaties and rushed units looks a little much.
Bee-lining to MT ourselves and then having our cavalry stuck on our island will not cut it. So I'm for fast research with the help of the AI.
Another point: We still have to build a wonder for a golden age. I would currently plan for capturing the pyramids and build Cops. The question is where?
England has a weak military against us. I would try a phony war against them. But really with first gifting them a city or two and imediately taking back.
They have several size 1 cities, maybe we have a chance to get one when they talk.
Another candidate may be Japan.
They seem to have some problems with Rome. But they are currently militarily strong against us.
I don't think phony wars without gifting cities are of any benefit in the moment.
On our continent we should look to attack China soon. I would only look for a short campaign without alliances first.
Note an alliance with Greek would cut our trade route.
Another thing, we really should look to build harbors. Everything is coastal linked so we could trade. Many cities need also aqueducts, so it's a question how to balance this with military. But our core cities need to grow and work coastal tiles so we get our commerce up. When (if
) we get cities on other islands we will need a lot gold to rush things.If we want research help, we have to gift invention to Greece. They could get us gunpowder, while we research the upper branch. Everybody else looks pretty hopeless currently. Nevertheless I would gift republic and currency around, so that the general commerce gets better everywhere.
I think we really have to research up to flight. Conquering all these islands by cities in peace treaties and rushed units looks a little much.
Bee-lining to MT ourselves and then having our cavalry stuck on our island will not cut it. So I'm for fast research with the help of the AI.
Another point: We still have to build a wonder for a golden age. I would currently plan for capturing the pyramids and build Cops. The question is where?
Note: The unimproved grassland shield of Chicago is waste.
I'm not good at fake wars. But klarius suggestion seems good to me. We have to be careful so we don't raze towns by mistake.
Regarding long term strategy we must take into consideration that fastest date is the only goal. We can't use airports on the 2 tile islands anyway, only for bombing.
It would be good to know what Greece is researching. If they are going for Monothiesm then klarius suggestion could be dangerous. I don't think they are doing Invention; that would mean that they changed tech when we traded them Engineering, which would be dumb even for an AI. (I mean, they are not very likely to have been researching Engineering when we gave it to them.) It could be Monarchy - but they already have a better government. Hard to say, more thoughts please!
I'm not good at fake wars. But klarius suggestion seems good to me. We have to be careful so we don't raze towns by mistake.
Regarding long term strategy we must take into consideration that fastest date is the only goal. We can't use airports on the 2 tile islands anyway, only for bombing.
It would be good to know what Greece is researching. If they are going for Monothiesm then klarius suggestion could be dangerous. I don't think they are doing Invention; that would mean that they changed tech when we traded them Engineering, which would be dumb even for an AI. (I mean, they are not very likely to have been researching Engineering when we gave it to them.) It could be Monarchy - but they already have a better government. Hard to say, more thoughts please!
The most likely tech Greece is researching currently is monarchy. They had the opportunity when they enterered the MA and already had feudalism.
If that is true and they finish it (should be soon), their next likely choice is invention.
We can wait until they come up with their tech, but I would research monotheism now.
If we then trade or gift invention to Greece it's nearly sure that they research gunpowder. That's the only research help we can expect nearterm.
If that is true and they finish it (should be soon), their next likely choice is invention.
We can wait until they come up with their tech, but I would research monotheism now.
If we then trade or gift invention to Greece it's nearly sure that they research gunpowder. That's the only research help we can expect nearterm.
And here my devious plan (never tried really something like that ) for the war:
Gift republic around first, so that we don't have to deal with whipped cities later.
Move units one step on road out of San Antonio and St. Louis.
Gift the cities to England.
Declare war and take cities back. Cities will then be size one with one english citizen.
Next turn we could repeat with Japan. Cities will not be razed, because of the english citizen.
Wait until they talk and hope to get a town.
Concentrate on building and upgrading longbows in the meantime to get our military rating up.
I think we should try it right away. The longer we wait, the more they grow their cities and we may not get them.
Another possibility is to attack China first and do the gifting and retaking with chinese cities. But that needs some military build-up first.
Nice would be a similar thing with the Vikings, they are just a bit near to our core for my comfort in the moment.
) for the war:Gift republic around first, so that we don't have to deal with whipped cities later.
Move units one step on road out of San Antonio and St. Louis.
Gift the cities to England.
Declare war and take cities back. Cities will then be size one with one english citizen.
Next turn we could repeat with Japan. Cities will not be razed, because of the english citizen.
Wait until they talk and hope to get a town.
Concentrate on building and upgrading longbows in the meantime to get our military rating up.
I think we should try it right away. The longer we wait, the more they grow their cities and we may not get them.
Another possibility is to attack China first and do the gifting and retaking with chinese cities. But that needs some military build-up first.
Nice would be a similar thing with the Vikings, they are just a bit near to our core for my comfort in the moment.
Ronald
Emperor
If nobody has strong objections, I will proceed with the plan klarius described above (I have not done such thing either but sounds like fun to me)
I will start playing in about 3 hours.
I will start playing in about 3 hours.
Ciceronian
Latin Scholar
Klarius' plan sounds good. I also haven't ever done this before but it ought to work.
Ronald
Emperor
turn 1 (330 BC): Embassies with everybody. England and Scandinavia are building the Great lighthouse with 29 and 17 turns to Go. China is building the great wall with 3 turns to go.
Rome and Japan are at war. gift republic to England and Japan, gift St. Luis and San Antonio to England.
Declare war on England and Japan (I decided to declare on Japan right away. They seem to loose against Rome, so we might get a city without gifting. I will gift to Rome on the next turn.
Retake St. Luis and San Antonio, switch research to monotheism. upgrade first archer
turn 2 (310 BC): upgrade archer, gift St. Luis and San Antonio to Rome, declare war, retake cities, trade literature for 33g to China, trade WMs
turn 3 (290 BC): trade invention for monarchy, WM + 2g with Greece, trade WMs, switch Chicago to harbor
turn 4 (270 BC): china finished great wall, trade WMs, some MM
turn 5 (250 BC): atlanta LBM - harbor, New York LBM - LBM, upgrade last archer, we now have 8 LBM + 3 spearmen. Two more and I start war with China, trade WMs, England is ready to talk: We get Newcastle in peace negotiations Yes!!
turn 6 (230 BC): San Francisco harbor - aquaeduct, trade WMs
turn 7 (210 BC): Seattle LBM - aqueduct, Washington LBM - LBM, trade WMs, some MM
turn 8 (190 BC): Scandinavia declared war on Rome, our trade with gems ends, I don't renew since when we declare war on China we will destroy our trade route, trade WMs, luxury slider to 30%
turn 9 (170 BC): research monotheism, start theology, trade WMs, Rome talks, we get Ceasaraugusta on their main island and Byzantinum on the smal island, that's fine. There are lots of legions around ceasaraugusta, so we have to rush some military soon! Japan is ready to talk but does not give a city
turn 10 (150 BC): some MM, trade WMs, trade engineering for furs with Rome
For klarius: Two stacks with 5 LBM each are ready for war with China, target cities Shanghai and Hangchow or Chengdu, Washington is building another LBM this turn. If you want you could switch Washington to start copernicus
The flip probabilities of our new cities are very small, The city gifting trick worked perfect so far, shoud we repeat it with Scandinavia? That's the only major island where we have no city. We need to rush some troops in Ceasaraugusta since we are still at war with Japan. If we do the city gifting trick with Scandinavia, we need more troops there since Scandinavia and Rome are at war, so there might be some scnadinavian troops near by.
good luck!
Rome and Japan are at war. gift republic to England and Japan, gift St. Luis and San Antonio to England.
Declare war on England and Japan (I decided to declare on Japan right away. They seem to loose against Rome, so we might get a city without gifting. I will gift to Rome on the next turn.
Retake St. Luis and San Antonio, switch research to monotheism. upgrade first archer
turn 2 (310 BC): upgrade archer, gift St. Luis and San Antonio to Rome, declare war, retake cities, trade literature for 33g to China, trade WMs
turn 3 (290 BC): trade invention for monarchy, WM + 2g with Greece, trade WMs, switch Chicago to harbor
turn 4 (270 BC): china finished great wall, trade WMs, some MM
turn 5 (250 BC): atlanta LBM - harbor, New York LBM - LBM, upgrade last archer, we now have 8 LBM + 3 spearmen. Two more and I start war with China, trade WMs, England is ready to talk: We get Newcastle in peace negotiations Yes!!
turn 6 (230 BC): San Francisco harbor - aquaeduct, trade WMs
turn 7 (210 BC): Seattle LBM - aqueduct, Washington LBM - LBM, trade WMs, some MM
turn 8 (190 BC): Scandinavia declared war on Rome, our trade with gems ends, I don't renew since when we declare war on China we will destroy our trade route, trade WMs, luxury slider to 30%
turn 9 (170 BC): research monotheism, start theology, trade WMs, Rome talks, we get Ceasaraugusta on their main island and Byzantinum on the smal island, that's fine. There are lots of legions around ceasaraugusta, so we have to rush some military soon! Japan is ready to talk but does not give a city
turn 10 (150 BC): some MM, trade WMs, trade engineering for furs with Rome
For klarius: Two stacks with 5 LBM each are ready for war with China, target cities Shanghai and Hangchow or Chengdu, Washington is building another LBM this turn. If you want you could switch Washington to start copernicus
The flip probabilities of our new cities are very small, The city gifting trick worked perfect so far, shoud we repeat it with Scandinavia? That's the only major island where we have no city. We need to rush some troops in Ceasaraugusta since we are still at war with Japan. If we do the city gifting trick with Scandinavia, we need more troops there since Scandinavia and Rome are at war, so there might be some scnadinavian troops near by.
good luck!
Nicely played!
Yet, I think it is worthwhile to try the gifting trick with Scandinavia once we know they get the Lighthouse. An ROP rape could get us Trondheim with longbowmen and we are not playing for second place. If we could cripple the Vikings we could also avoid them getting berserks.
Furthermore I suggest marketplaces, not universities, as our remaining infrastructure.
Yes, it's important to have defence and later offence in the distant towns, so soon we will have to come to a decision of how long we should keep up the max research. It's my strong opinion that we should attempt to win this with cavalry as the strongest unit. On the upper part of the tree, we'll need astronomy - not navigation - or the Great Lighthouse. In principle, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility to capturing the Great Lighthouse with rushed longbowmen, but seeing how Scandinavia is likely to get it, I think we are on the right route researching Theology.Ronald said:
Yet, I think it is worthwhile to try the gifting trick with Scandinavia once we know they get the Lighthouse. An ROP rape could get us Trondheim with longbowmen and we are not playing for second place. If we could cripple the Vikings we could also avoid them getting berserks.
Furthermore I suggest marketplaces, not universities, as our remaining infrastructure.
Longbowmen will be fine to hurry. Later we'll need harbours on the big islands too but as a rule no undefended towns. In low-risk areas I suggest warriors first instead of spearmen, just so that the towns aren't empty.
Ronald
Emperor
@ Megalou:
I think you are a bit too optimistic. Probably it will be possible to get more cities from peace treaties and we should continue to try it, but there are too many small islands around. I cannot imagine we can get a city everywhere. To capture them we will need helicopters, so we have to do research all the way.
The more we can capture before, the less time will be needed after we have helicopters.
The game will become a delicate balance between max. research and rushing military.
I think you are a bit too optimistic. Probably it will be possible to get more cities from peace treaties and we should continue to try it, but there are too many small islands around. I cannot imagine we can get a city everywhere. To capture them we will need helicopters, so we have to do research all the way.
The more we can capture before, the less time will be needed after we have helicopters.
The game will become a delicate balance between max. research and rushing military.
I have a lazy sunday afternoon to come, so I will play now.
War with China and looking to secure our overseas colonies will be the goal.
I would also like to do something with the Vikings, but not right now. We are a little thin everywhere and one hot war at the time is probably enough for us (and Vikings could also get hot).
War with China and looking to secure our overseas colonies will be the goal.
I would also like to do something with the Vikings, but not right now. We are a little thin everywhere and one hot war at the time is probably enough for us (and Vikings could also get hot).
Ronald
Emperor
klarius said:
You are probably right, get us some nice chineese cities and the horses. As soon as we have gunpowder we will know if we can build cavs to conquer the rest of our continent.
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