Short fun game (immortal)

[RRRaskolnikov]

About the farms, I'm not quite sure what you're meaning (though its no big deal :d). Might be because I have taken to farm more plains to make more use of GAs...

maybe it will pay off then... still before bio it seems weird
So if everyone agrees with gifting MT to Gandhi as well, I will do it (loving that move actually )
Not sure I can play today anyway... expect it rather tomorow morning.

Ras

 

[babybluepants]

Excellent progress! I should go away more often.
Plan sounds good to me.
Why are we gifting MT? We don't want Econ+110g?
What's our next GP? We could grind one in 7t with a GA. GS could bulb SM, speeding up Communism a bit...
Build some boats, for sure.

 

[Silu]

Man, hold your horses about gifting MT. When majority of our troops are Cossacks (or majority of his current mounted units are dead), then gift it IMO. Similar to how I'd rather bash Cavalry than Rifles, I'd rather bash Knights and HAs than Cavalry Shouldn't be that many turns until we start churning Cossacks (or most of his obsolete mounted units are dead) anyhow... I take it my GA Slavery dip idea didn't gather much support? Would give us a faster initial Cossack wave.

EDIT: If there's a useful trade then make that instead of gifting of course

 

[mystyfly]

@bbp: I suggested focusing on another GM for cashbomb. Doesn't rly matter though

 

[Silu]

@bbp: I suggested focusing on another GM for cashbomb. Doesn't rly matter though

One of the reasons I was suggesting we stay in Slavery I don't think any will be that useful. SM bulb probably the most useful of the lot, followed closely by a cash bomb.

 

[mystyfly]

... and probably the best reason to stay in caste is the boost on WS, not the specs closely followed by ras' scoreoptimization ideas

 

[Silu]

... and probably the best reason to stay in caste is the boost on WS, not the specs closely followed by ras' scoreoptimization ideas

Of course I just don't think that would be that worthwhile (esp. if we'd watermill the river), since Slavery would help production a ton in our worse cities (and St. Pete massively) while making our conquests useful. But I'm totally fine with Caste, it won't make that much of a difference.

 

[mystyfly]

Well, you may be right that slavery is superior to caste production-wise... "production-wise" meaning upt, units per turn Especially shortterm, slavery clearly outweights caste, however, I think after some time caste will catch up... Consider, we'll most likely workshop new cities (ras, try to pillage towns/villages/... wherever possible and sensible), and they probably only get whipped once. AI cities are in good shape infrawise so we likely won't need to whip many buildings there anyway. And, Caste is very nice in new cities for running artist specs... we don't need to build any culture building at all unless the city is in danger of flipping, which "saves" us hammers we can spend on cossacks instead.

Does my memory serve me right, we are not able to change civics twice during a quick speed GA?

 

[babybluepants]

Does my memory serve me right, we are not able to change civics twice during a quick speed GA?

I think we can.

For the record, I'm 50:50 on the slavery dip. I'd stay in Caste if this was solo, but a few extra short-term units may cut through Gandhi just a bit faster.

My main problem here is I'm having trouble estimating the timeline here, even very roughly. How long before we cap Gandhi and Bismarck realistically? I can imagine this going so fast, we don't even make it to where we need Communism or any further tech. Or, getting into a longish slugfest with Gandhi for a while. Do you guys have a good idea of where we stand?

 

[Silu]

Well, you may be right that slavery is superior to caste production-wise... "production-wise" meaning upt, units per turn Especially shortterm, slavery clearly outweights caste, however, I think after some time caste will catch up... Consider, we'll most likely workshop new cities (ras, try to pillage towns/villages/... wherever possible and sensible), and they probably only get whipped once. AI cities are in good shape infrawise so we likely won't need to whip many buildings there anyway. And, Caste is very nice in new cities for running artist specs... we don't need to build any culture building at all unless the city is in danger of flipping, which "saves" us hammers we can spend on cossacks instead.

Does my memory serve me right, we are not able to change civics twice during a quick speed GA?

You don't save hammers with artists after Music is researched... You put "Culture" in the build queue and it takes 5 hammers to pop borders.

Also I seriously doubt we will have time to further workshop much of anything. Even if we do, it won't offset Slavery benefits, pretty sure of that. Whipping those starving rioters is hard to pass up honestly If we aim to end this ASAP we won't be building infra either... Just whip what we need to finish the job.

Your memory is a tad on the short side, seeing how we changed civics 2 times during a GA mostly during your last turnset before this

I'm 99% sure Slavery will result in a faster win. That usually also brings the better score, though it might be cloes here Depends on how bad a whipping spree we'd go on I guess.

My main problem here is I'm having trouble estimating the timeline here, even very roughly. How long before we cap Gandhi and Bismarck realistically? I can imagine this going so fast, we don't even make it to where we need Communism or any further tech. Or, getting into a longish slugfest with Gandhi for a while. Do you guys have a good idea of where we stand?

Gandhi will take 5-20 turns, depending on 1) what he does with his stack 2) how useful our vassals decide to be 3) how the dice treat us wrt Cuirs vs Rifles and 4) our civic choices. With our MFG no way he survive against Cossacks for longer than that Biz will keel 1-3 turns into our war with him if he doesn't get Rifling, 4-5 turns in if he does. That's what my crystal ball says anyway!

 

[mystyfly]

Right, forgot about building culture; I somehow never use it. I've just been playing a deity game of mine where I'm killing AI after AI... and no city starved more than 2 pop or so due to long revolts... usually it's only 1 turn; the turn it takes to borderpop... which I do with specs, works fine dunno, I just got used to do it that way. I'm fine with slavery.

Abt GA and changing civics... I just had a faint memory of something concerning quick speed GA durantion... I was not sure what the result was back then but now I remember (yer right I even did it myself ) I just wanted to make sure we don't miss something like this that screws up our plans...

Looking foreward to the bloodbath ahead

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Looking foreward to the bloodbath ahead

UNfortunately I couldn't play this week end, so I hope it's oK if I play tmr (still no news of SGOTM11 ).
Seems we are heading toward slavery finally.
Ofc we will take techs if we can rather than doing giftings... and I take it we don't wanna boost Gandhi finally
I agree with Mysty about the next GPs, astro/chemestry are really the only thing we want anyway so I don't think a bulb is good.

Ras

 

[babybluepants]

With caste, we can average 2-3 cossacks per turn from here, even without the GA. We wouldn't whip Novgorod (which can actually do 1 per turn already) or Moscow, we can't even 2-pop whip in a secondary city without investing for a couple of turns, and some of the other cities (Rostov and the sugar/ivory for instance) will take forever to re-grow. The main advantage of slavery long-term is whipping captured cities, IMO... Honestly don't think it matters all that much, though. If you guys want slavery, go for it. We'll have more than enough production either way.

@Silu, I don't think it's a matter of horse archers vs. cavs for pre-existing units, but rather cavs vs. rifles for new and promoted ones. I think I'd just give MT away right now, but I guess we don't really have to.

 

[Silu]

@Silu, I don't think it's a matter of horse archers vs. cavs for pre-existing units, but rather cavs vs. rifles for new and promoted ones. I think I'd just give MT away right now, but I guess we don't really have to.

Well what I'm thinking is, if we gift it now, we might see 15 more Cavs. If we gift it in 1-2 turns, we might see 4 more Rifles. While our forces still are all Cuirassier I think the latter scenario is better right now. Both have their pros though

 

[shyuhe]

Indeed, no point giving him cavalry when we don't have a full army of cossacks. I'd just blaze on with what we have now. Still surprising to see Gandhi actually have a real SoD...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Playing now... will do a small burst of slavery at the beginning of GA then switch back in caste. (everyone will be happy that way )

 

[Silu]

Playing now... will do a small burst of slavery at the beginning of GA then switch back in caste. (everyone will be happy that way )

Except the citizens that are forced to work to death, I presume

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

... I am an idiot guys... was playing the set and had to stop to log in a pitboss ... and I forgot to save ... I have an 1420ad autosave apparently, I think I had played two more turns or so... is it ok for you if I replay? otherwise I need a skip... damn that's dumb

 

[shyuhe]

I don't mind a replay - it's not like we're submitting this to the HOF. Do you still want your turn or do I need to boot you to the back again Ras?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Nah I will finish then... (note to self: put that damn autosave setting to one turn!!!)