Should Civfanatics just make one "Civ V Criticism Thread"?

[Öjevind Lång]

one thing is that Civ V is a major dissapointment to the majority of the players... and you can be happy that there are so main complainers, as that suggests that the hope for the franchise is still running high.

It would be interesting to see tthe proof for your claim. The circumstance that a vociferous group in an Internet forum hate Civ V in a quite unhealthy way doesn't prove anything about what the majority opinion is. I'd say it is much more postive (and above all balanced) than the endless hate speeches here.

 

[Thormodr]

The opposite of love is apathy or indifference, not hate.

The fact that many people are still vocal about how bad the game is shows that people still care about the franchise.

That's a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

It would be easier to make it for the civ5 lovers, the thread would be much smaller.

That is because the Civ 5 lovers are happily plying Civ 5 instead of whining in Civfanatics.com. I too will go back to playing that very enjoyable game. Reading the forums here is pointless since every thread (at least in General Discussions) is poisoned by those who apparently can't endure the fact that many people like Civ 5. So I'm off; I'll let those who apparently enjoy summoning down the wrath of the gods on a game they don't happen to appreciate continue with their bizarre pastime.

Still, the strategy and tips section has some good threads, mostly left unmolested by the haters since the haters don't know the game. They played it a couple of times, discovered that it wasn't Civ IV+ and have never recovered their sanity after that traumatizing insight.

Mind you, of course there are real issues with Civ V; there were with Civ IV too. I don't mind judicious, balanced discussions of how the game might be improved. What gets dreary is the mindless, hating rants.

 

[SuperJay]

But apparently there is a group of sectarians who think that Civ IV is holy and who just can't endure the fact that a great number of people actually enjoy Civ V. So instead of going back to the Civ IV forums and discussing their favourite game there they keep posting whine threads here. By now, one of their chief complaints is that "Civ V lovers" insist on posting about how much they like the game.

It would be interesting to see tthe proof for your claim. The circumstance that a vociferous group in an Internet forum hate Civ V in a quite unhealthy way doesn't prove anything about what the majority opinion is. I'd say it is much more postive (and above all balanced) than the endless hate speeches here.

So, for the sake of discussion, can you show me or point out this shadowy group of villains that you keep referring to? Or give examples of "endless hate speeches?"

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to be snarky here. It seems a lot of the most impatient, upset responses in this thread make really, really extreme accusations about these horrible rage-filled people and/or threads. So it sounds like they everywhere. Given that ubiquity, I assume it'll be pretty easy for you to provide some examples, right? Because I honestly do not see what you guys are seeing or understand what's got you so incredibly angry and vicious on the forum here.

Most of the threads that I've seen come through here lately are pretty low-key, even if they express some disappointment about the combat AI, lack of hotseat, patch load times, or some other factor. I mean, I know there's a thread that says "I'm bored with this game," but is that really an "endless hate speech??"

 

[Öjevind Lång]

So, for the sake of discussion, can you show me or point out this shadowy group of villains that you keep referring to? Or give examples of "endless hate speeches?"

I'm just curious, I'm not trying to be snarky here. It seems a lot of the most impatient, upset responses in this thread make really, really extreme accusations about these horrible rage-filled people and/or threads. So it sounds like they everywhere. Given that ubiquity, I assume it'll be pretty easy for you to provide some examples, right? Because I honestly do not see what you guys are seeing or understand what's got you so incredibly angry and vicious on the forum here.

Most of the threads that I've seen come through here lately are pretty low-key, even if they express some disappointment about the combat AI, lack of hotseat, patch load times, or some other factor. I mean, I know there's a thread that says "I'm bored with this game," but is that really an "endless hate speech??"

Dude, read just abut any thread about Civ V (any aspect of it), and you'll find at least a couple of trolls who post things such as "Gee, are people still playing Civ.0.V?"

 

[SuperJay]

Dude, read just abut any thread about Civ V (any aspect of it), and you'll find at least a couple of trolls who post things such as "Gee, are people still playing Civ.0.V?"

I actually read an embarassing amount of threads in this forum, and while I've seen the kind of thing you're referring to here and there, two things don't jive with your accusations: 1) that it comes from both the Civ5 fans (see your two posts above) and the non-fans, and 2) that it's nowhere near the frequency that you seem to see it.

I want to believe I'm just missing all this venomous bile-spewing hatred that you guys seem to suffer from at every turn, because the alternative is that you're just being melodramatic, overreacting, and exaggerating for effect.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

I actually read an embarassing amount of threads in this forum, and while I've seen the kind of thing you're referring to here and there, two things don't jive with your accusations: 1) that it comes from both the Civ5 fans (see your two posts above) and the non-fans, and 2) that it's nowhere near the frequency that you seem to see it.

I want to believe I'm just missing all this venomous bile-spewing hatred that you guys seem to suffer from at every turn, because the alternative is that you're just being melodramatic, overreacting, and exaggerating for effect.

What an interesting debating technique you have. So you think a smiley means I have no right to react against an ad hominem attack? And don't bother trying to deny that your choice of words is anything else.

I like Civ IV. I like Civ V. I'm just terminally fed up with all the hate posts against Civ V, the sniping in almost every thread. I'll repeat what I've said before: Why don't those who dislike Civ V simply go to the Civ IV forums and discuss the game they enjoy?

 

[ezwip]

This game has been about as well received as Coke was when they decided to change their formula.

 

[Surgeon]

What's really sad is the 2k forums are currently a better source of civ5 info than civfanatics at the moment So the game is awful or whatever , I just want the awesome strat discussions to have a nice place to breed.

 

[Zechnophobe]

What an interesting debating technique you have. So you think a smiley means I have no right to react against an ad hominem attack? And don't bother trying to deny that your choice of words is anything else.

I like Civ IV. I like Civ V. I'm just terminally fed up with all the hate posts against Civ V, the sniping in almost every thread. I'll repeat what I've said before: Why don't those who dislike Civ V simply go to the Civ IV forums and discuss the game they enjoy?

So you aren't going to give him a link then? It doesn't seem like he asked for something all that ridiculous.

 

[KahunaGod]

What an interesting debating technique you have. So you think a smiley means I have no right to react against an ad hominem attack? And don't bother trying to deny that your choice of words is anything else.

I like Civ IV. I like Civ V. I'm just terminally fed up with all the hate posts against Civ V, the sniping in almost every thread. I'll repeat what I've said before: Why don't those who dislike Civ V simply go to the Civ IV forums and discuss the game they enjoy?

BECAUSE: We really really really wanted, and continue to want to like this new release, but, everytime we look for a glimmer of nuggetty goodness we are dissapointed. And by we, I mean the people called "haters" by all the vocal angry zealots shouting "down with the haters" so.....hatefully. (seewhatididthere?)

also, just for you Oj(sic), lots of smiley faces that you seem to like

On Topic: Fear of free and open discourse should never be subjected to "speech zones". Fear of discourse is what leads to such censorship. If the people who love Civ5 want the people who hate Civ0.5 to shut-up, they should drown them out with "Civ5 is the greatest game ever!" threads and posts. The unhappy posters are simply stating their own opinion, the knee-jerk reaction to move them all to one thread is a terrible thought. This is a general discussions thread. All general discourse should be welcomed.

and if you think I am wrong, then, then, ......................whyareusomean

arent you glad we dont talk about politics here.............

 

[charon2112]

On Topic: Fear of free and open discourse should never be subjected to "speech zones". Fear of discourse is what leads to such censorship. If the people who love Civ5 want the people who hate Civ0.5 to shut-up, they should drown them out with "Civ5 is the greatest game ever!" threads and posts. The unhappy posters are simply stating their own opinion, the knee-jerk reaction to move them all to one thread is a terrible thought. This is a general discussions thread. All general discourse should be welcomed.

...because that would be just as bad, creating an even more disorganized forum. Posts that are just blind love or hate and are duplicates of every other blind love or hate thread, should be relegated to one stickied thread each. I for one, am not singling out people who dislike the game.

 

[masterminded]

What an interesting debating technique you have. So you think a smiley means I have no right to react against an ad hominem attack? And don't bother trying to deny that your choice of words is anything else.

I like Civ IV. I like Civ V. I'm just terminally fed up with all the hate posts against Civ V, the sniping in almost every thread. I'll repeat what I've said before: Why don't those who dislike Civ V simply go to the Civ IV forums and discuss the game they enjoy?

You have the temerity to accuse him of an ad hominem attack when your entire last post was nothing but a sequence of exaggerated insults to critics? You have characterized every critic, including many of us who strive to make constructive posts in the hopes of at least a mod to improve the game, with one broad brush stroke as nothing short of vile and molesting cretins.

 

[UKScud]

What an interesting debating technique you have. So you think a smiley means I have no right to react against an ad hominem attack? And don't bother trying to deny that your choice of words is anything else.

I like Civ IV. I like Civ V. I'm just terminally fed up with all the hate posts against Civ V, the sniping in almost every thread. I'll repeat what I've said before: Why don't those who dislike Civ V simply go to the Civ IV forums and discuss the game they enjoy?

Get over it....It really is very simple. Don't open up the "hate" threads...read the title...it usually gives a clue (mostly)

It really matters very little if you don't read or participate in those threads. Is the real issue that you want your readable threads on that front page, rather than having to look through the first few?

Sorry if this post seems rude...but Civ5 "lovers" can get whiny too.

 

[gonzo562]

I think they should on another forum i browse

they have sticky's for

praising and criticism sticky for empire total war. I thought it was a good idea to do that less multi threads about how they like or hate civ 5

 

[Skwink]

BECAUSE: We really really really wanted, and continue to want to like this new release, but, everytime we look for a glimmer of nuggetty goodness we are dissapointed. And by we, I mean the people called "haters" by all the vocal angry zealots shouting "down with the haters" so.....hatefully. (seewhatididthere?)

Then why do you stay here to talk about a game you don't like?

 

[Vordeo]

What's really sad is the 2k forums are currently a better source of civ5 info than civfanatics at the moment So the game is awful or whatever , I just want the awesome strat discussions to have a nice place to breed.

The strategy board on here doesn't have as much mindless civ-bashing as the general.

 

[Xanikk999]

(To OP) If they did that the Civ5 forum would be mostly dead except for that thread.

 

[Vordeo]

We should just have a "Stupid or Annoying Opinion" thread where all posts or even entire threads that annoy the mods should be sent. Why should complaints about Civ5 be singled out for action simply because they are what annoy you? Many other posts annoy me and I think they should get sent to the junk thread too. We'll let the moderators sort it out, they seem to do a good job.

What annoys me are threads where Civ-bashing brings everything off topic and leads to interesting discussion ending. My position is that these OT posts should be moved to a megathread for discussing Civ5 quality. Take note, that's not bashing or praising or marginalizing anything: that's simply taking action to keep threads on topic. It'd obviously be up to the mods to decide what's OT and what's not.

Or we could be adults and realize that by supporting the stifling of one form of opinion, we make it much simpler to stifle other opinions by setting the precedent. It's easy to point the finger at others and demand action from the authorities. It's a lot harder to step away from such policies once the precedent has been set. Next time it could be you who is marginalized.

I've never advocated marginalization, and I'll thank you not to put false words in my mouth.

I get that you're trying to make some heavy-handed point about censorship, but it's directed at the wrong person, and it's very condescending. Somehow people complaining about the deluge of civ bashing wiping out most of the discussion on this board is now not acting like adults?

Whatever.

 

[KahunaGod]

...because that would be just as bad, creating an even more disorganized forum. Posts that are just blind love or hate and are duplicates of every other blind love or hate thread, should be relegated to one stickied thread each. I for one, am not singling out people who dislike the game.

OK Charon, but should we then break all mods discussion to a single thread, all strategy discussions to a single thread? Why we as players love or hate this game is the core reason of why we post in the first place. Also, the general discussion area should be a chaotic "disorganized forum". Its many poeple with many opinions that dont fall under any specific other forums and therefore fall under the "catch-all" of general discussion. Its like going to the "town square" and eavesdropping on all the other conversations. They are all over the place, and nearly everyone in some form or manner is simply someone expressing their pro/con feelings about something.

The game devs specifically want feedback from us, the players, to help determine how they go forward. If all they saw was one bad thread next to lots of "its all bunnies and unicorns" threads, they would be seeing a manufactured and disingenouos sample of peoples feelings. Free and open discourse within a free market model will give any business an honest report on their product. Business' likes this, it lets them continue to improve their product. Its why they conduct market research and surveys. A great example of this currently unfolding in the US is Domino's pizza. They have long been thought of as "cardboard with fake cheese on it". They recently decided to make major changes and went to the public directly and asked "why do you hate our pizza?" to ensure they got the real opinions so they could make reak changes and give the public what it wanted, continue to stay in the pizza business and make a profit. Which is why they are in business in the first place. Good for them.

I think moving all threads concerning unhappy players and banning all "this game sucks" posts from other threads is tantamount to Firaxis/Civfanatics Forum closing theer eyes, sticking their fingers in their ears, and loudly shouting "la-la-la-la-I cant hear or so you-la-la-la-la".

Lets not be thought police puppets, lets break the chains of information control and together help craft the game we all want to play by using our feeling, opinions and suggestions, for better or worse!