Should we declare war on the Japanese as soon as we come out of anarchy?
- Thread starter eyrei
- Start date
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
We should Declare war once we are out of Anarchy 
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Plexus
Architeuthidae puericomedentis
If they get/ have samurais, we will most likely lose this war...
naervod
My current user title
Yes. Again I am emphasizing the importance of knocking out Japanese Iron or Horse supplies so they can't build Samurai.
Plexus
Architeuthidae puericomedentis
Horses are not needed for Samurai. That should make it easier for us.
FortyJ
Deity
Plexus
On the contrary, the fact that horses are not required will make it harder for us. If they needed both, we could simply eliminate one of the two resources. Now, we have to eliminate their source of iron and it will be hard to reach.
We are already outnumbered by the Japanese military and with Anarchy upcoming, we will be sacrificing another six turns of production. The only way we will survive this war will be through the forging of alliances with our other neighbors.
On the contrary, the fact that horses are not required will make it harder for us. If they needed both, we could simply eliminate one of the two resources. Now, we have to eliminate their source of iron and it will be hard to reach.
We are already outnumbered by the Japanese military and with Anarchy upcoming, we will be sacrificing another six turns of production. The only way we will survive this war will be through the forging of alliances with our other neighbors.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
Actually, our initial strike force may allow us to declare war while we are still enduring Anarchy. From this point on, I would recommend that we treat any Japanese threats for gold or techs as an invitation to invade. Remember, as we count down to Samurai, every turn counts.
Plexus
Architeuthidae puericomedentis
IMO: This war is comming way too soon. It is a mistake to go to war with our current military and national status.
Do I need to remind you that Japan is the first placed civ?
Do I need to say that their super-powerful UU is comming online within two tcs?
Do I need to say that the Japanese are like 3 times more powerful than the Aztecs ever were, we didn't exactly win that war as easily as we thought we would, did we?
What happens if the Americans get an alliance with Japan? We're dead.
Well, enough ranting. Let's reconsider this declaration of war, please.
Do I need to remind you that Japan is the first placed civ?
Do I need to say that their super-powerful UU is comming online within two tcs?
Do I need to say that the Japanese are like 3 times more powerful than the Aztecs ever were, we didn't exactly win that war as easily as we thought we would, did we?
What happens if the Americans get an alliance with Japan? We're dead.
Well, enough ranting. Let's reconsider this declaration of war, please.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Shame on the people who put this undiscussed, unproposed, left turn out in left field poll together. It's bad enough we don't plan for the future, but to make foreign/military policy like this the day before war and a government change, is a really bad move.
The question is undiscussed, the poll, because this is an undiscussed issue, should not be a YES, NO, ABSTAIN format.
We should probably declare war on turn one or two, and finish up any units we can before turn #4 or #5. Then descend into Anarchy and make the t/c last until we come out of Anarchy into Monarchy. The period of time between the declaration of war and the revolution should be used to analyze our foreign diplomatic theatre and secure any or all alliances we need or can get as supported by our discussions and polls on the subject.
If this war plan falls apart and we lose a lot of our troops, finger-pointing will not only be directed to the lack of a step-by-step walk through of the war/Monarchy approach, but also the Science Department (who would get the lion's share) for avaoiding Monarchy for so long and keeping us in Depostism until the birth of Christ.
Let's attack now, get what we can, take what we can, and revolt. Even if it seems like we would be purposefully shooting ourselves in the foot, it is probably the only way to approach the situation at this time under these circumstances. IMHO
The question is undiscussed, the poll, because this is an undiscussed issue, should not be a YES, NO, ABSTAIN format.
We should probably declare war on turn one or two, and finish up any units we can before turn #4 or #5. Then descend into Anarchy and make the t/c last until we come out of Anarchy into Monarchy. The period of time between the declaration of war and the revolution should be used to analyze our foreign diplomatic theatre and secure any or all alliances we need or can get as supported by our discussions and polls on the subject.
If this war plan falls apart and we lose a lot of our troops, finger-pointing will not only be directed to the lack of a step-by-step walk through of the war/Monarchy approach, but also the Science Department (who would get the lion's share) for avaoiding Monarchy for so long and keeping us in Depostism until the birth of Christ.
Let's attack now, get what we can, take what we can, and revolt. Even if it seems like we would be purposefully shooting ourselves in the foot, it is probably the only way to approach the situation at this time under these circumstances. IMHO
Cyc, there was a decent amount of discussion on this topic spread throughout several threads. Unfortunately, it would always die down after a few posts. Also, the decision has already been made to revolt and form a monarchy within a few turns. I do not think starting a war just before a revolution is a good idea (and I am pretty sure that most would agree with me here), so the war will have to wait.
I had to poll on this issue in some manner, because, if I did not, we would never declare war on Japan, and our time would pass. Most people seem to think Japan is our next enemy, and there is little I can do about us not having planned out this war. That is why I have asked that the turn chat stop immediately after we declare war.
Donovan Zoi
The Return
I agree with Cyc...we have waited long enough for Monarchy and finally have a decent stronghold to begin war. We must weaken the Japanese now or plan on emptying our pockets for tribute during the entire Samurai era without guarantee of continued peace. Would you rather we start this war on our terms or Japan's?
We can make a huge dent here. I agree that we must stop the turnchat before making any moves once the war starts. So let's plan on making Saturday's session about, say, three turns? Three turns of anarchy, then WAR WITH JAPAN.
We can make a huge dent here. I agree that we must stop the turnchat before making any moves once the war starts. So let's plan on making Saturday's session about, say, three turns? Three turns of anarchy, then WAR WITH JAPAN.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Cyc has a good point . We should get into anarchy, keep the order in our empire. Once Monarchy has come into play then it would be up to the DP to eather keep going and declare war against japan or the DP can stop the chats and Take it to the forums.
. We should get into anarchy, keep the order in our empire. Once Monarchy has come into play then it would be up to the DP to eather keep going and declare war against japan or the DP can stop the chats and Take it to the forums.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Edit: Double post Sorry 
, Stupid internet lag.
Please deleat this post
, Stupid internet lag. Please deleat this post
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Quotin eyrei:
Cyc, there was a decent amount of discussion on this topic spread throughout several threads. Unfortunately, it would always die down after a few posts. Also, the decision has already been made to revolt and form a monarchy within a few turns. I do not think starting a war just before a revolution is a good idea (and I am pretty sure that most would agree with me here), so the war will have to wait.
I had to poll on this issue in some manner, because, if I did not, we would never declare war on Japan, and our time would pass. Most people seem to think Japan is our next enemy, and there is little I can do about us not having planned out this war. That is why I have asked that the turn chat stop immediately after we declare war.
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Sorry, eyrei. I MAY have had too much coffee yesterday morning. In response to your above post, I disagree. There was some discussion scattered throughout the forums on the issue, but it was like, "should we go to war", "who should be are next target", vague subjects like this. I'm talking about a warplan. I don't remember when the last time I read a post from Falcon02 was. Why haven't we discussed the exact procedure to take in regards to putting our neck on the line and why it should be that way?
A decision to drop into Anarchy within the next few turns (whatever that means) wasn't made. The decision to revolt this t/c was made, and it was left up to the discretion of the Vice-President. " Excuse me, Octavian, but during the next chat, in between one of your doughnuts, can you lead our people into a revolt?"
I know this is not all your fault, eyrei, but War and agression on our neighbors does touch the F/A Dept. The window of attack that has been mentioned is being closed quickly (if it hasn't already). We need to get this thing moving. Tell us which countries you would want us to get an alliance with, prioritized, let's go to war with those allies (or the ones we could get) by our side. We can still bounce back from a move like this, if we wait a good 5 turns to revolt. Let's get this thing moving. Let's try to remember not to sell Japan Chivalry if we get it from the Great Library also. Are we money-hungry little gypsies, who will sell anything for a gold piece? We have done enough to willfully cripple our nation. Let's turn it around and do the right thing.
Cyc, there was a decent amount of discussion on this topic spread throughout several threads. Unfortunately, it would always die down after a few posts. Also, the decision has already been made to revolt and form a monarchy within a few turns. I do not think starting a war just before a revolution is a good idea (and I am pretty sure that most would agree with me here), so the war will have to wait.
I had to poll on this issue in some manner, because, if I did not, we would never declare war on Japan, and our time would pass. Most people seem to think Japan is our next enemy, and there is little I can do about us not having planned out this war. That is why I have asked that the turn chat stop immediately after we declare war.
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Sorry, eyrei. I MAY have had too much coffee yesterday morning. In response to your above post, I disagree. There was some discussion scattered throughout the forums on the issue, but it was like, "should we go to war", "who should be are next target", vague subjects like this. I'm talking about a warplan. I don't remember when the last time I read a post from Falcon02 was. Why haven't we discussed the exact procedure to take in regards to putting our neck on the line and why it should be that way?
A decision to drop into Anarchy within the next few turns (whatever that means) wasn't made. The decision to revolt this t/c was made, and it was left up to the discretion of the Vice-President. " Excuse me, Octavian, but during the next chat, in between one of your doughnuts, can you lead our people into a revolt?"
I know this is not all your fault, eyrei, but War and agression on our neighbors does touch the F/A Dept. The window of attack that has been mentioned is being closed quickly (if it hasn't already). We need to get this thing moving. Tell us which countries you would want us to get an alliance with, prioritized, let's go to war with those allies (or the ones we could get) by our side. We can still bounce back from a move like this, if we wait a good 5 turns to revolt. Let's get this thing moving. Let's try to remember not to sell Japan Chivalry if we get it from the Great Library also. Are we money-hungry little gypsies, who will sell anything for a gold piece? We have done enough to willfully cripple our nation. Let's turn it around and do the right thing.
None of the polls regarding war with Japan have been separated by more than one vote, and the last one did not reach quorum. Earlier polls show our citizens want a war with Japan, but some seem to want to wait awhile. While I disagree with waiting any longer, I cannot force us into a war, especially when we don't have a plan of attack. As far as alliances, we cannot have any idea how expensive they will be until after we start the war, so I have to wait for that to happen. I will not give vague instructions to pursue alliances without saying who or how much to spend.
I also have not noticed a post by Falcon in awhile. Who is the military deputy?
I also have not noticed a post by Falcon in awhile. Who is the military deputy?
Cyc
Looking for the door...
We agree, eyrei. I believe the reason we have such a split citizenry on the subject is due to lack of a good warplan (NO, CT we had something that vaguely resembled a warplan, that was kind a put together with Elmer's glue and then left on the bus). This lack of a warplan points to a lack of Leadership in the Military Dept.
Myartar
Yeah, I'm back
After looking over the save game, I'm also of the opinion we should not declare war on Japan right now. WAY too risky. Also, I see the point in "why are we talking about this now". A lot can happen by the time we get our monarchy, and we may shoot ourselves in the foot if we just focus on Japan right now.
My question goes to Cyc tho, Who is this Christ guy you were talkin' about? I'm just wonderin'...
My question goes to Cyc tho, Who is this Christ guy you were talkin' about? I'm just wonderin'...
