Sid variant

[I. Larkin]

This variant is design to fill a flavor of research power of Scientific Civ versus Sid AIs. Also it is to see how modern age goes at Sid. To emphasize our scientific power we will not build The Great Library, as Education is our primary goal. The final goal is space ship; all other condition will be open so we have to deal something with Culture, Domination and Diplomacy not to loose this way. It looks hard, but I think simpler, than 5 CC Deity Space Ship, that has been done recently. Members of this team are especially welcome.
The best map, I think, is Archipelago Large (70-80% water), alone on Island. Possible civs are Byzantiane or Greece.
Opponent Scientific as well.
Please reply here if anybody interested.

 

[Whomp]

I think you're talking about the game Bucephalus, zerksees and I finished. If it was us that you spoke of thank you and I'm honored you'd ask. I've watched your play, as well, in SGOTM and I'm sure I'd learn a lot by SG'ing with you.

The problem is I just commited to another SG and feel that is my limit these days. A Sid game would expend all of my SG energy that I'm afraid I can't commit.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

To hell with time. Requesting permission to embark

Spoiler :

I like Greece because it's easy to engineer a well-timed GA - it is too with Byz but we lose some gold and shields to have faster ships, which we may or may not really need.

I just rolled a couple maps in the editor and with a large one we'll have enough space to build 5, in nearly all cases, at 80%. We'll be more likely to get overrun on 70%.

 

[vmxa]

I always say that Domination and UN are not a concern at Sid. The AI will be very hard pressed to take over that much land, before you get rolling. Even the worst civ have too many units to take out quickly.

The UN is a modern age tech, so if you are around that long, you can build it with a pre.

Space is easy to stop, no Ur, no launch.

Culture all you have to do is not let the second best culture die, before you get to half culture of the top dog.

So mainly you have to worry about be eliminated.

Not sure what your goal is with the research, but you pretty much cannot research fast enough until you have about half the land. Even a 15 city civ can match or beat your research most of the game.

Best of luck.

 

[Own]

Oh god this is tempting.... god this is tempting. I'm in two, and I'm planning on being another when one is about to end. I already promised myself I wouldn't go over 1 SG when school started and I've broken that... I try to justify joining this in my head by saying that an island game doesn't take long and stuff... while all the other SG's that I'm either in or will be in are either always war or defiant. To join or not to join. I love sid ... it's so much more fun than deity.

I can't do it. If later on you need more players, feel free to PM me and I might could come in as a sub, but that's it. Btw, I've won 2 sid games, one AW islands and the other continents, so I'm qualified.

Edit: btw, is this a self research sid variant game, or am I mistaken? What is the variant exactly?

 

[Bucephalus]

I may be able to play, depending on how strict you are with playing time - I can rarely play to a 24/48 regime.

If you can stretch to 24/72, I'm in.

 

[Aabraxan]

lurker's comment: I have just got to watch this one! Good luck.

 

[I. Larkin]

Thanks for reply, everybody.
@Bucephalus : really SGs never go like 24/48.
It is good, if something like (24+24)+48 goes. I mean 24 for “got it” 24 to discuss and 48 to play. At later stage, even 48 hours normally is not enough. So you are in.
@Beorn-eL-Feared: you are in too. My preference is 60/40 to Theodora/ Alexander. I like Theodora more, but recon that I go around her too much.
Third choice is England, Korea, Summer...
@ Own: Well, before wars starts (and normally it is middle of MA) it is quick. BUT: game mainly about "Optimal City placement for IA and MA". So "dot map discussion" has to be intensive. I count you in. Well, we will try to research ourself, as much as possible, but Tech Trade also "allowed".
@Whomp: Thank you for reply. Yes, I meant your Korea game gozpel et al. That's a pity you can't play "now". But game may be long, and you are always welcome if you re-consider.
@ vmxa: thank you for warning. My feeling, that UN is “easiest” option, but I want to see MA in “full scale”. If survive.

@ somebody who will not play: Can anybody generate “good land” for us? I mean “seed number” and list of AI opponents? It should be “we are alone” at the island, with some fresh water and 2 Lux, 3-4 wine and 5-6 silk preferably. Also if it is in the cener of minimap...

I think we need 1 players more. Or may start as sav will be ready as it is.
Now roster is:
1. I. Larkin
2. Bucephalus
3. Beorn-eL-Feared
4. Own
5. ignas

 

[Own]

To hell with time.

I should have listened to this advice earlier. Count me in. When you mentioned careful discussion about city placement, my mouth started watering.

About civ choice. The Byzantines would make this game a blowout. You can slow the tech pace with dromons by pillaging and by controlling the seas, which allows you to create phony wars all over. Even w/o the GL, we should be able to get to gunpowder quick enough, so that we're left with enough time to methodically dominate the world via baiting, stack hiding in musket army, etc. Greece would be much more interesting. Without the powerful seafaring trait, we wouldn't be able to contact quick enough, making the ancient age a bit more of a challenge. Seafaring and large map equals middle ages without researching or buying a tech, or maybe just one or two.

Korea actually would be a better choice than Greece, hoplies are just about useless early on, while hwachas would completely eliminate the need for bulding any units other than the few muskets we need to fill armies with.

My understanding of the variant is the following:
-We cannot buy a tech for straight up gold
-We cannot steal
-We must research techs
-We can trade techs, but can we throw in a little more gold if we researched a tech less expensive than the one we want to get for it?

I suggest copying LKendters rules in his deity research experiment games, something like you cannot chip in more gold that 1/3 the tech price.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

My understanding of the variant is: 5CC Sid, survive until we launch

 

[Own]

I missed the 5CC part. I only saw a comparison to the 5CC large pangaea game, but I think he was just comparing difficulty, not variants. huh

 

[ThERat]

5CC Sid, survive until we launch

insane....

I would like you guys to NOT play Byzantines. It has been done before and the dromons seem exploitive. Korea would be a nice choice.

 

[Own]

mark1031 has done this on continents as the Dutch, except he had a island of his own. Still harder than islands because the AIs contact eachother easier.

Yeah, no Byzantines. Too easy on the brain but too hard on the wrist.

 

[I. Larkin]

1) I should have listened to this advice earlier. Count me in. When you mentioned careful discussion about city placement, my mouth started watering.

2) About civ choice. The Byzantines would make this game a blowout. You can slow the tech pace with dromons by pillaging and by controlling the seas, which allows you to create phony wars all over. Even w/o the GL, we should be able to get to gunpowder quick enough, so that we're left with enough time to methodically dominate the world via baiting, stack hiding in musket army, etc. Greece would be much more interesting. Without the powerful seafaring trait, we wouldn't be able to contact quick enough, making the ancient age a bit more of a challenge. Seafaring and large map equals middle ages without researching or buying a tech, or maybe just one or two.

Korea actually would be a better choice than Greece, hoplies are just about useless early on, while hwachas would completely eliminate the need for bulding any units other than the few muskets we need to fill armies with.

3) My understanding of the variant is the following:
-We cannot buy a tech for straight up gold
-We cannot steal
-We must research techs
-We can trade techs, but can we throw in a little more gold if we researched a tech less expensive than the one we want to get for it?

I suggest copying LKendters rules in his deity research experiment games, something like you cannot chip in more gold that 1/3 the tech price.

1) I know, that it is temping... Glad that you are in from the very begining...
2) The Byzantines is “too simple” even for Sid. I read about OCC AW Sid with Constantinople. But there is no other SF Scientific civ, unfortunately. I have no experience with Korea and “Hwacha” , but may be... What about England? Sea/ Commercial may compensate expensive Universities.
3) Formulation of Variant is excellent!
It is
- No TGL
-We cannot buy a tech for straight up gold
-We cannot steal
-We must research techs
However I’d like to make last one easer for us:
-We can trade techs, if basic price of our techs at least 2/3 of techs we want to buy .
Table of basic price exist somewhere, I know. We may add “Sid penalty” and “monopoly penalty” by our gold.

 

[I. Larkin]

No, it is not 5CC! I want to survive for sure untill Modern age! We may loose by AI Domination, Culture, UN but after 1100AD...
I am not going to make something "un-do-able", I want just "normal Sid game..."

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

As much as I liked to think about the challenge of Sid 5CC, I don't think anyone here will be disappointed

Sid space as SCI it is!

 

[ignas]

I'd like to play in this one, it's going to be interesting.

 

[Own]

I can run mapfinder overnight and post some saves in the morning for non players to just scout with the settler and worker... just to see if playable, no spoiler info. I'll look for 2 cows and a lux, in my experience running it overnight should get you about 5 or 6 maps like that.

Seafaring of england may make up for cheap unis, but not cheap libs, unis, and the free tech of the next age. That is really helpful.

Should we go for philosophy first?

 

[I. Larkin]

I'd like to play in this one, it's going to be interesting.

You are in. Always have been looking for a chance to play with you.

 

[I. Larkin]

I can run mapfinder overnight and post some saves in the morning for non players to just scout with the settler and worker... just to see if playable, no spoiler info. I'll look for 2 cows and a lux, in my experience running it overnight should get you about 5 or 6 maps like that.

Seafaring of england may make up for cheap unis, but not cheap libs, unis, and the free tech of the next age. That is really helpful.

Should we go for philosophy first?

Good. Question for tester: River, Cattel, Wine and Silk, and alone on the island. Archy, 70-80%.
OK, Englad out. So Korea?
We discuss about reseach strategy when start the game. Phylo not always work at Sid.