Sirian's Sand Box

[Sirian]

Early: Whipped temple at FP site. Swapped from 10% science to lone scientist. Redirected settlers so that ones farther out were sent to more distant locations, and ones following up were sent to nearer sites. This will allow me to found most of the cities on my turn and get all their temples built before 250AD. (Every one of these cities will be set to whip a temple immediately).

Middle: Workers improve lands around FP site. Progress on roads continues. I order up a couple more settlers and several more workers. I decide to road that one tile of jungle needed to finish the road from Delhi counterclockwise around the lake to the eastern cities. I had also redirected some settlers eastward.

America declares war on Iroquois. Hi signs Joanie to alliance and she joins the fight. Hopefully that will work out OK (stalemate). America has the Pyramids and is clearly stronger, but Iros have mounteds and will hit golden age -- apparently after a govt swap, too! Also, the latter wonders are all started. These yahoos could end up in the middle ages fairly soon, so we do need to keep an eye out. We HOPE they will waste time in wars, but don't go too much on the farming. I order up a barracks in Calcutta.

Late: Founded a gaggle of cities. BAD NEWS, the FP site at 5 shields loses 4 of them! That means we will probably need to build a courthouse first. I think we should just commit to that. We can whip progress toward it, plus chop some of those forests and make use of the shields. NEW PRIORITY: courthouse at FP site. Gather up those workers that are doing roads (when the current roads are done) and start chopping. Whip once (10 shields to 30) and get that courthouse finished, THEN do the FP. We'll get it done faster, I believe. More than 70% lost to corruption is just too much, all things considered.

I made a very bold grab with our southernmost settler and secured a grand spot in terms of strategic placement. The Americans have already grabbed one site behind that, though. I also made bold moves eastward, founding one good site and putting two settlers in place for very early next round. I also filled in the last first ring spot, on the lake. I drew up some "wishful thinking" dotmaps, to follow. Our settler/warrior pair southeast of Pune are standing on the site I want them to grab. It IS on the river and is perfectly positioned to avoid overlap with the Yanks. The other two settlers out there are each one tile away from their intended sites, marked with red dots.

 

[Sirian]

Sand Box - 50AD


- Sirian

 

[Dwip]

Uh, got it, I think, though I'll likely need a decent chunk of my 48 hours.

 

[Skyfish]

Sirian when I said "test" I did not express myself properly, I am not implying that this could not work, on the contrary I wanted to apply it to the letter...

 

[Ozymandous]

Since the FP has already lost all but one of it's shields to corruption do we still only want to settle past it, or do we want to get the forward city sites now and then fill in between the FP and palace as initially planned? I'd think we'd want to get the forward sites, but all my ideas seem worthless so thought I'd ask.

Just wanting to make sure I do only what I am supposed to, i.e. follow the dot-maps, not screw anything else up, etc.

 

[Sirian]

Every city added that is closer to the capital than the FP makes the corruption problem worse for the FP site. We are in a race to grab sites toward the AI's now, but we should still leave the FP's second core sites between it and the capital empty. The French won't be sailing along, they have tons of room left. The others are locked in war and we'd have plenty of time to react, including running moving blockades, to any push they make to cross our lands and go for our back lines.

There. Clear as mud. I don't have all the answers. There are too many variables to predict. Trying to avoid slowing the FP is an important consideration, but not the only important one. Just do the best you can.


- Sirian

 

[Dwip]

(0) 50 AD - Assorted familiarization. Empire sure has changed since my last term in charge. I'd like to do lots of settlement over my turn, but, uh, none of the settlers really come due on my turn. So much for that plan. Since I'm following Sirian, what really needs changing?

(1) 70 AD - Delhi Spear->Settler

Warrior/settler pair by Pune found New Madras, which starts a worker.

Brief pondering on why there's a worker in the middle of the desert by Lahore. Ah well.

(2) 90 AD - Bengal Temple->Worker, Chittagong Worker->Settler (can be vetoed later, but we could use a few more)

New Bangalore founded by Pune, starts worker.

New Calcutta founded by Jaipur, starts worker. Of extremely worrisome note, Lake Sirian is going to be totally cut off, as the Iros have founded Kente in the way. What's more our river spot over by Pune got stolen by the Americans. Any settler we get at this point is going to be rushed over to the east to cover ourselves, I think.

(3) 110 AD - Bombay Settler->Spear (have we been using queues on me?), Kolhapur Worker->Worker.

Worker near Punjab starts chopping wood to go into the courthouse so we can rush the thing faster.

Moving these assorted workers around is like realizing that whatever was going on with them, there was a plan there, and you've just totally destroyed it for something. Ah well. If I have committed the sin of , I'm sure I'll be properly :whip:.

(4) 130 AD - Whatever I said about settlers didn't take into account pop growth. Madras Settler->Settler.

Another worker goes to work on trees at Punjab.

(IBT) Salamanca completes the Great Wall.

(5) 150 AD - Hyerdabad Warrior->Worker (whoops. Shoulda caught this one. We don't need anymore regular warriors)

There's an Iro warrior running around by Madras, and I let him.

(6) 170 AD - Kolhapur Worker->Worker

(7) 190 AD - Delhi Settler->Spearman, Calcutta Rax->Spearman, Bengal Worker->Worker

(8) 210 AD - Bangalore Worker->Granary (er...), Lahore Settler->Settler, Indus Temple->Granary

New Bombay revolts. Some year, I will learn. Not much to do but give them a clown. The road is coming soon, so watch this.

Uh, ruh-roh. Abe is REALLY screwing up our settlement plans, here.

And with not enough time left in my turn to be productive and some decisions coming up on where to send settlers, I'll end my turn a bit early.

Save! Shiny!

 

[Sirian]

The worker out in the desert was building roads toward future settlement sites, to settle them faster and connect them faster. I thought that would be self-evident? OK, apparently not.

I didn't read any reports of temples being whipped??? Was left out of the report? Or left out of the action? Same question about new cities starting workers. The whip-temple-first plan to get them built for more 1000yr bonus (before the clock speeds up in 250AD) got vetoed? Or not understood? I did write that idea into my report. Too brief? (Too steep of a gradient? Not enough mass? Misunderstood a word there, maybe?)


As for that wasteful warrior, just the opposite! I had a hair-tearing moment on my turn when I realized all of our jungle towns (the ones totally immersed in vegetation) had NOT built a warrior and instead threw ten shields out the nearest window. All of them. I think the responsibility for that falls on both Ozy and Sky, but 20 or 30 shields in the form of units we could have had but don't is minor in the larger picture.

This is the way it works. New town in the jungle (or tundra) with no tiles that give more than one food, religious civ for the player, nonmilitaristic. Two options: warrior-worker, or warrior-temple-whip. Anything but warrior first blows ten shields, because you can't get a worker until the town grows to size 2, nor can you whip until the town grows. If you go temple first, you build up twenty shields, which means you only get ten from the whip, or else you DON'T whip and blow another ten shields AND ten food on top of the first ten shields lost. Only a militaristic civ can overcome the need for warrior first by building walls first, or an expansionist by building scout first (never happens). Non-religious civs can't do the cheap temple, so their only choice is warrior-worker, or else twenty shields and a partial whip, then twenty more shields, for the temple, but requires support of one unit sent from elsewhere to prevent revolt after the whip.

If your choices are train a regular warrior or get nothing, the regular warrior is a good deal. Yes?


- Sirian

 

[Dwip]

got vetoed? Or not understood? I did write that idea into my report. Too brief? (Too steep of a gradient? Not enough mass? Misunderstood a word there, maybe?)

Or read through the entire thread before playing, and totally didn't see you saying anything of the sort. Coupled with my severe eyestrain today, it may be time for this year's eye exam...

That or Important Concepts(tm) need to be in bold, flashing, bright pink text so my poor little brain can see them, or something.

I DID think about whipping the courthouse, at least, but it's a bit soon for that, so I didn't.

If your choices are train a regular warrior or get nothing, the regular warrior is a good deal. Yes?

Ah, another "New MM concept I shall now struggle to get my mind around until it finally overtakes me and I begin cackling like a madman, shooting lightning from my fingers, and performing said concept like I am the reincarnation of Julius Caesar or the like."

Righty. In defense of self here, I noticed that they could crank a warrior due on the same turn as growth, and I had enough free military around to cover it, which made the slightly-faster temple sort of irrelevant except for the culture, which I didn't actually think about because I rarely think about such things. Ah well. OTOH, we'll have all of that nice happy grassland uncovered that much sooner.

The worker thing, incidentally, didn't become apparently until like halfway through my turn, when I belatedly realized it. Until then, I was wonder why the worker was roading the desert and not the grasslands towards whichever other town it was. In any case, I built the road to the other town.

 

[Sirian]

I DID think about whipping the courthouse, at least, but it's a bit soon for that, so I didn't.

Erm... I take that to mean you passed up the chance to whip (in 90AD, I believe?) the partial progress from 10 shields to 30?

That was something else I specifically mentioned.

Ah... pink you say? LIKE THIS?!? Also BOLD? OK, I will see what I can do for you, but you can forget about the flashing.


- Sirian

 

[Ozymandous]

I *try* to build a warrior-worker when a city is surrounded by jungle just because of the slow growth rate. I can't remember if I did that or the warrior-temple because of the initial 20 turn growth but if I did neither it wasn't for lack of learning that lesson in the always war-rome game a few months ago.

I may have done neither on my turn here but I meant to if I accidentally left one in the wrong order.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Got it.

 

[Dwip]

Gotta be extra-clear on the whipping, too. I never whip, so I didn't think about partial at all. Whups.

<goes searching for a handy cliff>

 

[Sirian]

You've already found the cliff. The hard part is climbing it.

You don't want to throw yourself off the edge once you get up there, either. That won't spare you. I'll just crack out the and chide you for using BRIGHT BOLD PINK and expect you to climb back up there again. No getting off easy for you.



- Sirian

 

[Bam-Bam]

Yeah--I think they convey the mass.

yeah falling off the cliff will not spare you from the or the prod.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Belly up to the feast--

Ok--will be pushing to the absolute limit of my 48 (if not a bit beyond). Up in 3 SGs and about to be up in another.

This is not asking for a skip, just letting you know that my turns will likely not come prior to 8:33 EDT tonight.

Now--one question for our sponsor, and I have neglected to ask this in other SGs, since I usually have turns posted in less than a day: 24/48 rule--does that mean:

Post "got it" within 24 hours of previous players turnlog post and:

1) Complete turns and post within 48 hours of previous player's post

or

2) Complete turns and post within 48 hours of "got it" post.

From what I recall, it is #1. Just asking so that I have "clarity on the rules". Lack of sleep is taking its toll...

By the way--since Dwip left me 2 turns before 250AD--expect to see lots of action on the temples, even if we do not get maximum benefit of 20 shields (ok--another question on whipping--is it 1 pop for 1-19 or 1-20 shields? I haven't tested this enough).

Thanks in advance for the answers to my questions and for a few hours flexibility on completion of my turns.

Bam-Bam

 

[Ozymandous]

It's #2, 24 to post a "got it" and then 48 from that post.

One whip equals 20 shields. Otherwise the warrior-temple in a jungle city that takes 20 turns to grow wouldn't work as it does.

 

[Sirian]

No, it's 48 total hours. That's really 24 hours, but "got it" buys you another 24. Enforcement is not likely to become strict unless folks stop taking seriously the concept of moving things along.

- Sirian

 

[Skyfish]

By the way who's got it ?

 

[Bam-Bam]

I've got it--am playing right now. I'm *only * up in 3 games right now (compared to 4 last night).

Balance---yeah, that's it.