Sirian's Sand Box

[Bam-Bam]

Inspired by all the feasting--Mahatma Bam-Bam laid aside the teachings of Gandhi in favor of the !

Inherited Turn 210 AD

Fire musicians. temples in Ganges, Dacca. New Delhi, Pune,

230 AD (1)

Dacca temple -> worker. Same with Ganges, New Delhi, and Pune. Madras settler -> settler. Bombay spear -> settler. temple in Lake Sirian.

250 AD (2)

Lake Sirian temple -> worker.

260 AD (3)

Delhi spear -> spear. Calcutta spear -> settler. All the AI are in the Middle ages. Temple whipped in New Bombay and Madras.

270 AD (4)

Karachi court -> granery. New Bombay temple -> worker. New Madras temple -> worker. Temple whipped in New Bangalore.

280 AD (5)

Bombay setter -> spear. New Bangalore temple -> worker. New Lahore founded, starts on temple.

290 AD (6)

Hyderbad worker -> granery. New Karachi founded by iron mountain.

IT: America and France sign peace.

300-350 AD.

More settlers. Americans land settler pair right by where I want to settle up north--fortunately, I am in the right spot. New Kolhapur founded--there is too much overlap between it and New Lahore, but American settlements have altered our plans. Whipped granery in Jaipur. We get our first palace expansion, and America completes the Hanging gardens. Found New Jaipur. Courthouse whipped in FP city--it only loses half its shields. FP started, due in 100 (will drop as city grows. Whip granery in Bangalore. New York completes the Great Library. New Hyderabad founded. Whip granery in Karachi. And on me--I missed the riot in New Bombay--it needs some MP to be happy--IT is now our lone scientist. New Bengal founded. New Chittagong founded. Chittagong should have its granery whipped in two turns.

There, only one readily apparent, though I could have done a better job making settler pairs. There is a settler heading down to the lake or river SE of Bengal--it is closer than I would like w/Phoenix, but should be a good city site. Antoher settler, that I haven't figured a place for, is on the furs by Lahore. I used the 12 times.--is that enough? Republic due in 8, we have 1245 in the bank and are making 45 gpt. Should have lots of 4-turn research after we revolt. Try and get the max out of the whip prior to the revolt. The american settler pair is heading home.

Sirian
Dwip
Bam-Bam << Just played
Ozy <<<<< UP NOW
Skyfish < On Deck

The Game

 

[Sirian]

Temples, yay! Courthouse done in FP, and the govt swap will also help out a little more. Sounds good, Bam-Bam.

- Sirian

 

[Bam-Bam]

Thanks, Sirian.

My whip arm is sore today. Need a couple of days to recover before I start Epic 30.

 

[Ozymandous]

Early: Whipped four temples in the Eastern part of the 'Empire', and shuffled workers around to try to have stacks of three or four for clearing jungle faster. Iroquois asked for our world map plus 40 gold for their world map so I gave it to them thinking they might have a more up to date map from the French. They had the same map we did except for more coastline mapped, but now we know as much as they do.

Middle: America came to visit and after some curried chicken said this:

Since we didn't want to fall victim to the the same fate as the last "I" country that refused, we paid tribute.

Who said art doesn't imitate life? (Just thought that was funny, so had to share.)

A worker near New Madras is chopping the forest and should be done in the first turn or two of the next round, just wanted to let whoever follows know.

Late: Swapped to Republic and started to research. Lost a grand total of 7 GPT with the swap, and the FP site is up to only 50% corruption. With city growth the FP is now due in 44 turns, but we're having to run 20% lux to compensate for no markets there.

Researching math at a loss (-57 GPT with the lux at 20% and research at 30%) but due in three turns. After Math finishes we should be able to research currency before we go broke and the markets will help greatly. I had thought to research Horseback Riding, but figured since we're peaceful we need the money/happiness more.

America is beating the tar out of the Iroquois (art imitating life again) and the French are still expanding apparently. We're behind America in both culture AND military strength, which is why I gave in to their demand.

Hrm, what else... When we swapped to Republic I rushed all the temples that we couldn't do before due to lack of population. All of these temples were on the border south or east where I was trying to keep America from placing any more cities. Oakland was founded to our North East, in the gap where no dotmap has been made but we should get that through culture hopefully or maybe conquest if Abe act's up anymore.

There are 3-4 settlers in sentry mode on the spots they need to settle, but I am afraid if we settle more our FP will become more corrupt (we're a little over 30 cities now) so they are marking time for now. We're not doing bad now, but once the FP comes on-line we'll be doing *so* much better.

All the cities producing settlers can probably stop after their next unit is produced since we should have enough settlers already on their spots, moving to their spots, or in production to cover all the dot map locations that are left.

I've probably forgotten something, but these are the high points. Mainly moved workers and spearmen, started barracks in border cities after their temples, and spearmen out of our higher production cities. There are some units (mainly settlers moving to assigned areas and warriors from over by Joanie) on auto-move but nothing major.

Here's the save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/SSB-450AD.zip

 

[Sirian]

Yep, that American quote is funny. The scary part is that some folks around the world today don't see it as caricature!

Nice job with your results. Giving in was the right move for our current situation. We would like to get up to feudalism, at least, before having to fend off those ravenous Americans.


- Sirian

 

[Skyfish]

Got it !

 

[Skyfish]

Indeed it is difficult to evaluate the impact of those settlers waiting to found those sites...
I decide to leave the settlers as they are, as getting the FP asap is a priority I am pretty sure that founding 6 or 7 more cities in one turn would have a negative impact on Punjab but I am really not sure to what extent...

450 : all looks good

460 : Bangalore riots, I missed that one sorry. It can not use that 7th citizen yet anyway...

470 : math due next turn, we run a big deficit research, , the use of only 2 clowns allows for a the lux going down to 10%, we still lose 44gpt at 30% science.

480 : Math comes in, Currency due in 9 turns at 63gpt. Because of the whips, I have to high up the luxes back to 20%.

490 : Core cities start courthouse as prebuilds for Marketplaces

510 : Ok we have an issue in Punjab where it grows to size 5 but with 3 unhappy citizens and 2 happy...
Even if I raise the lux tax to 30% we still dont add a shield so forget it, we have to road forests before we can do something..

520: I have to found a site between Minneapolis and Pittsburgh before the Americans steal it.
Spices come online ! :jump: Punjab can now use that 5th citizen , still no 5th spt though...

530 : Chittagong builds Courthouse and is a real powerhouse with only BGs, loads of rivers and wheat. It's put on Palace as Marketplace prebuild.
By raising the science slider to 50% we can get Currency in 2 turns and save us 40g on how much it would be if we leave it at 30% due in 4 !
So I do it of course

ibt : America builds Sun Tzu

550 : Currency comes in, research set to Literature at minimum deficit (still -42gpt), due in 7 turns. Prebuilds switched to Markets.
Racing to get the Wines hooked up north, should be next turn.

I have unfortified the spears on top of settlers Sirian so that you see where they are. Your call on whether to found now or not.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/SSB-550_AD.zip

 

[Ozymandous]

I settled the spot on the East coast that was between two American cities as a test after I uploaded the game and the FP went from 44 to 59 turns to completion. This was on the river, on a plains tile if you look on the dot-map for that area.

Needless to say I am glad I didn't build that city during my turn!

I can't wait for the FP to finish, sheesh.

 

[Skyfish]

After I built that city there was no change to the corruption of Punjab so I was really glad I did not mess everything !

 

[Sirian]

Inherited Turn: Arrgh! We have almost sixty workers and none of them are in the core? We've moved to Republic, have not done much irrigation in some locations? Our economy is in the drink. We're losing cash at zero science?

We'll have some markets by the end of my round. I will go on a pop push: all food all the time. I'll raise our pop as high as I can get it. Most workers will be shifted coreward. I can't get them where I'd want them without wasting a lot of worker moves, but there is just no excuse for good tiles at Delhi and Bombay to sit unimproved (and not to have more ready for rapid growth) while we're out mining in fully corrupt locations.

Everything else looks good. Our road network is in great shape, and that is largely due to pushing so many workers outward. That was good, but sending them ALL was not. Settler situation is good. This is about as good as we could have hoped for in the land grab. Resources in good shape. I decide to leave the settlers where they sit, delay them some more, but how much more depends on what the AI's do.

I drop the lux to 10% and manage to redistribute some tiles to further lessen our economic burdens. I got the hemorhage down to 19gpt while keeping science at 20%. I must have spent most of an hour poring over this map. OK, here we go.


Early: Got the wines hooked up. Irrigated at the spices. Swapped some towns to courthouses, changed some border towns to walls. Settled New Indus in the Jungle. Sped up pop growth in many locations. Stopped the hemorhage in 570AD, bringing us to positive cash before the first market completed. I GAVE horses to the Iroquois to try to prop them up.

Middle: Our markets have started to complete. Irrigation efforts are taking hold in some locations. Pop growth is helping boost the economy. The French sailing along our west coast made me nervous and I settled two cities there, costing us a shield off the FP. The FP site was brought up to six pop, though, gaining back the shield I had lost. We researched Literacy and I started towns done with markets onto libraries. Our settler in the far north grabs an icy location where there were some whales and two grass it could poach off a neighbor site, which will allow the town to grow well past size 12 eventually.

Late: Some courthouses complete. Most markets complete. I got Lahore up from size 3 to 7. I got Madras up from size 7 to 11. I got Delhi to 8, others up a size or two. I grew some of our corrupt towns, too. Population is power!

Better repeat that in Dwipspeak: POPULATION IS POWER!

I finally got half a dozen workers back to the Delhi area, some started on irrigations. (See last comment about population). I also dropped our lax tax to zero. This may need to go back up soon! With Lux Tax at zero, the player has to watch for revolts in the core very closesly. Use F1 each turn to check for revolts. That won't take long.

Dwip: USE F1 EACH TURN TO CHECK FOR REVOLTS IN THE CORE!

If we get more than three specialists going in prime core cities, go back to 10% lux.

Our road past the spices was completed, so I built the city there to make sure it doesn't fall too far behind. I rushed its temple. Likewise on the shore at Botany Bay. The French settled in the area and I decided we should stop waiting.

Dwip: WHEN HORSEBACK RIDING GETS TO WITHIN TWO TURNS, SEE IF INCREASING SCIENCE WILL SAVE A TURN!

I kept hoping someone would offer us a deal involving selling us Mysticism, but it hasn't happened.

The Iroquois are so much melba toast. They have lost their capital and their whole core. I saw three Mounteds and two archers die attacking one stray American pikeman. Those darn Americans have all the luck! We are going to have to prepare to defend against them. I sent a worker onto the iron near the FP.

Dwip: HOOK UP THE IRON! TRAIN SWORDS OUT OF THE CAPITAL AND ANY OTHER SITES THAT HAVE BUILT BOTH MARKET AND LIBRARY (and barracks!)

Feudalism must be the top priority upon reaching the middle ages. We want to upgrade our spears and amass a force of midievals that can fend off any invasion. We also need to crosshatch our roads so that troops don't have to go back to the capital to get onto a different leg of the web. I have started on this effort, creating a "beltway" around the first ring. We'll want an "outer beltway" eventually, but we can't do everything at once. More important is getting those core cities up to size 12 with all good tiles!

I had the FP city at 5spt for a couple of turns, and 4spt for most of my round, but the settlements I had to do in the end dropped us to 3spt, and I went ahead and settled the rest of our settlers, which did not drop us any worse. We could even afford one more city somewhere without losing 3spt, I believe. The FP will complete shortly before 1000AD -- slower than I wanted, but we'll be in good shape once we get there.

I did manage to rescue the economy. What we need next is more military power. Lots more. I never expected a false pangaea with one AI civ missing in action and another dying out so quickly. This may be a builder game, but I'm now certain we'll see war. All we can hope for is the Americans to pick on Joanie next. What could really hurt is if the Iros are not eliminated, but allowed to linger around with a couple of cities for an extended time, driving up our research costs to no useful end!

Our reputation could be stained by my gift horses. I did not think the Iros were in that bad of shape, but they are. Too late to undo that now.

Dwip: IRRIGATE SOME AT DELHI AND BOMBAY, GOING SOUTHWEST WITH THE WATER. IRRIGATE SOUTH OF LAHORE SOME. TAKE A LINE OF IRRIGATION TO THE FAR NORTH NEAR EACH COAST. WE WANT SOME WATER ACCESS ALMOST EVERYWHERE.

Madras would be a good town from which to produce a couple more settlers to try to grab those last spots in the north. Keep it going on 10+ food per turn and it can produce settlers without dropping population. You've got to stay on it, though, as the governor will continually try to emphasize shields.

Dwip: MOVE WORKERS COREWARD! DO NOT WASTE WORKER TURNS MOVING LARGE DISTANCES, THOUGH. AFTER ONE TILE IS DONE, CHOOSE THE NEXT ONE TO WORK A TILE OR TWO CLOSER TO THE CORE. THIS WILL SHIFT MOST OF THE WORKERS ONE RING OR SO COREWARD BY THE END OF YOUR ROUND.

Whew. That was a piece of work!


SSB - 650AD


- Sirian

 

[Dwip]

Bold pink good. Help Dwip's poor brain greatly.


Got it. Will likely be a day or so as I'm also up in RBP10 and it's finals week, but I've got it.

 

[Ozymandous]

Erm, Iron wasn't already hooked up? I had a worker on connecting the Iron to the East at the end of my turn.

Strange.

Also, sorry if the FP area wasn't irrigated. I had started a line of irrigation from the river Northwest of Bangalore, but forgot to mention that in my report so I guess it wasn't continued.

 

[Dwip]

(0) 650 AD - Let's see. Goals for the turn:

1. Partaketh not of the

2. Increased peoplization of the empire (yes, I knew this one. )

3. Letteth not the cities revolt.

4. Save turns on HBR (knew this one, too!)

5. Hooketh up the Iron. Traineth swords.

6. Maketh lines of irrigation, moving the workers back into our core.

7. Watch the Iroquois. They're in danger of taking over the world.

(1) 660 AD - Bombay Library->Spear

Our iron-roading workers get iron-roading.

The stories of how some of our workers got to their current positions would likely make for an interesting book. A couple of roads in the middle of nowhere in specific.

(2) 670 AD - Calcutta Library->Spearman. Lahore Marketplace->Library.

France is building Sistine's in a totally pathetic desert city.

I might perhaps have moved one or two workers. And a spear. Let us not forget the spear.

(3) 680 AD - Bombay Spear->Spear. I may have moved more workers, and TWO spears. Also, somebody thoughtfully left me a warrior on longterm goto somewhere.

(4) 690 AD - We suddenly learn how to ride horses. Our scientists ponder the invention of Legos.

Jaipur Walls->Marketplace.
Calcutta Spear->Spear
New Bombay Worker->Granary
Blubber Worker->Temple

We gain a new second story on one of the palace wings.

Abe is building Sistine's in Washington.

I might also have moved workers around. And a spear or two. I might even have fortified a spear.

(5) 700 AD - Delhi Spear->Spear, Bombay Spear->Spear, Madras Library->Rax, Indus Library->Spear.

I even moved one or two of those spears. And maybe a few workers, too.

(6) 710 AD - Kolhapur Something->Rax, Chittagong Library->Rax.

And then, and I kid you not, I moved some workers and spears. Can you believe it?

For a moment, I also ponder why Golden Plains should be building an archer of all things before reassigning it to a granary.

(7) 720 AD - Delhi Spear->Spear, Bombay Spear->Spear, Indus Spear->Spear, New Dacca Worker->Temple.

The people add a second story to the palace.

Iron is hooked up. I build swords, you build swords, he/she/it builds swords.

In a total reversal of previous turns, I move some spears and workers.

(8) 730 AD - Construction rolls in, we start on Mysticism.

Pune Granary->Marketplace, New Bangalore Something->Marketplace.

I'm sure you'll never guess what happened next.

(9) 740 AD - Madras Rax->Sword, Calcutta Sword->Sword, New Hyerdabad Walls->Library, New Bengal Worker->Granary.

The people add a new lawn to the palace.

I'm sure you can guess the rest.

(10) 750 AD - Delhi Sword->Sword, Bombay Sword->Sword, Lahore Library->Rax, Botany Bay Worker->Library, Indus Sword->Sword, Calcutta Sword->Sword, Ganges Worker->Granary, New Indus Worker->Library.

Left about half the workers and such for somebody else to move.

Save the Rainforest!

 

[Sirian]

"I have to move units? Says who? What kind of lunatic game is this, anyway? I don't remember reading that in the job description!" - Dwip, speaking in utter tongue-in-cheek pseudo-astonishment.

Moving workers is most of what you DO in a builder's game, Dwip.

As opposed to moving military being most of what you do in a conqueror's game!


- Sirian

 

[Dwip]

But you forgot to mention that I moved the spear, too! You can't forget the SPEAR!

(never did move a sword, though. Funny that.)

(didn't even get to move that warrior, either. Fortified him, though. That'll show him.)

And I dunno about this. You want me to actually think, and to actually MOVE UNITS? Next thing I know, you'll want me to build buildings and do research!

Not sure about this "interacting with the game" thing. Seems awfully new and dangerous, to me. Why, in my day, if we got to stare at rocks all day, that was the most excitement we had all year!

And you've forgotten all about the pink text! If you use green, it blends into the forum background, and confuses my poor little mind and makes it miss all the newfangled thinking stuff!

*cowers in the corner*

---Dwip, who doesn't play builder games, and does not have a HoF that is 90% builder games. The spreaders of that particular rumor have been...dealt with.

 

[Sirian]

My Hall of Fame is currently almost empty. Civ3 didn't used to care if you edited the rules. PTW does, though. Clever? No. Only thinks it's clever. There is no distinguishing between changes that make the game easier and those that make it harder. (God forbid I actually want to record the score of a game where I edited the rules in favor of the AI! That's... that's CHEATING!)

90% builder games in your HoF? I'm envious. My, erm, two HoF entries cannot be divided into partitions small enough to be measured as finely as 90%!


- Sirian

 

[Bam-Bam]

I probably have a bunch of regent/monarch games in there, but the reality is that my hall of fame game (i.e., what I consider most glorious) was my only deity solo win where even the in-game AIs had higher scores after my victory! Epic 26, anyone?

Of course, now I have the opportunity to add two more solo deity games to the win column--OPPORTUNITY, that is. Not sure how well I will fare in your Epic 30, Sirian.

EDIT: And yes, I've got it. Expect more workers working and builders building.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Reminder (mostly for myself)

VARIANT RULES:

* We may not build great wonders. (Includes the UN!)

* We may offer deals involving RoP, peace, or sale of our own resources, but we may not offer deals involving AI resources, maps or techs.

* We may accept AI-initiated deals involving their maps, tech or resources, but only as-is, no alterations.

* We are discouraged from starting wars. Any wars we do start must be brush wars, fighting for control of border areas only, and only if the AI has stuck its neck out with ridiculous land grabs, or as minor punitive action against aggressor states. No heartland attacks against any enemy.

* If we end up in a war, we must accept peace if it is offered, as that means we've put enough hurt on the enemy that we should stop.

* We are not allowed to build the Intelligence Agency. (Don't even bother with Espionage tech).

One question, just to make sure my understanding is clear.

2nd rule--this means we may not ask the AI what they would take for their tech or what they would give for our tech, right? That's how I read it--not that I expect us to have a tech lead for a while (if ever).

 

[Bam-Bam]

Save file is not on the server--I found the 650AD save (Sirian's), but cannot locate the 750AD save. I am sure of this, since I listed by timestamp, and there is no ssb save on the server after Sirian's save.

Dwip, please upload.

 

[Dwip]

You know, I could have sworn I checked that. Ah well. It's up now. Sorry 'bout that.