Sirian's Sand Box

[Ozymandous]

Are we wanting to forward settle towards the other Civ's once we get the FP in place or not?

Do we want more than the max cities or not? Just thought I'd ask since the west side of the FP site seems a tad cramped compared to the east side.

I guess the Palace could be moved to Lahore later if we settle the whole top end of the area we're in, since that seems a little more central, but I could be way off like I was in researching to Republic too early.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Got it. Spreading our reach further into the sandbox...

 

[Sirian]

Ozy, we want to settle forward, but not too much. Enough to make sure we grab two maybe three rings worth of land, and other than down near the spices, in the direction of America, we should have time.

One thing to consider is that the lower down the corruption chain the FP site is, the longer it takes to build the FP.

* Grab the fertile sites near Delhi, anything within two rings that can be made quickly productive.
* Make sure not to lose out on known resources.
* Settle "extra" sites BEYOND the FP, to its north, to keep the FP site higher in the rotation.

The best total package would be to settle two full rings around Delhi (can't ignore the jungle, or AI's might jump in there), get a long road to the northwest under construction, then send the later settlers out up into the hinterland beyond the FP and fill that whole area in while the FP is being built, then rapidly fill in the gap between the FP and the main core later.


As long as we're not running communism, there is zero concern about going "over" the "max city" count. We want as much land as many cities as we can get, but it's best to be smart about how we do that.

Being a commercial civ, we can support 30 cities before we hit that "max" figure anyway, and with courthouses and WLTKD, third ring cities would still eventually become productive with a bit of nurturing. The main strategizing here involves corruption: making the most of the FP, both on location and in settling in a way that doesn't slow its construction, and also in going with less overlap, which hurts a little short term but helps for the late game. Being a builder game, we pretty much want to build as much as possible. This is a sand box. Spread out and enjoy.

As for moving the palace later... won't be worth it. You would just be moving it away from some of the more developed cities (Bombay, Madras, Karachi, and the coastal red dot) and toward less developed cities on the other side of Lahore. Don't worry. Our palaces will be located such that ALL of our cities will be able to build. Even ones on the northeast coast will be worth something, even with the current capital placement. Remember, the AI's will be sprawled out too, and they are not as good at managing corruption.

We shouldn't have problems grabbing our fair share of the land. The only question is whether or not we'll turn up missing resources.


- Sirian

 

[Bam-Bam]

Sirian and team--

I saw that you accepted Skyfish's request to join the team. As I am in SG feast mode right now, and know I will not get to this game tonight with the Cup finals, I propose that Skyfish be inserted into the order between Dwip (who has been skipped) and me, so that he can get into the game quickly and keep things moving. I will be able to get to the game tomorrow either way.

 

[Sirian]

Bam: If Sky can play a whole turn tonight, then OK. We'll do what you suggest. Up to Sky if he wants to take the opportunity.

- Sirian

 

[Skyfish]

Ok guys I am in Europe so I don't know what you mean by "tonight" cause that would mean probably "tomorrow" for me ?


I am ready to play whenever you need me of course

I can play this afternoon for me, which means I can report back around noon or 1 pm your time : is that OK ?

 

[Bam-Bam]

Skyfish--that is perfect. 1 PM EDT (or 6 PM GMT) is about the earliest I could get to the game.

 

[Skyfish]

Bam-Bam : I was sure I could do it but actually something has just come up this minute and I won't be able to play the game today (Friday) anymore.
SORRY !

The way I was inserted in the roster by Sirian is perfect because it gives me a bit of time to "get into the groove" before I have to play my turns, I'd rather keep that order...
Hope it's ok with you !

 

[Bam-Bam]

Very well--I repeat my "Got it".

Will play this evening.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Inherited turn 750 BC

Fire musicians.

730 BC (1)

Madras worker-> worker.

IT: French are building lighthouse.

710 BC (2)



690 BC (3)

Delhi spear -> settler. Madras worker -> settler. Kolhapur founded, starts on warrior. Jaipur founded, starts on temple.

670 BC (4)

Bombay spear -> settler. Dial down slider to get 18g, masonry due in 1.

650 BC (5)

Masonry learned, start on WC--due in 4 @ 2gpt.

IT: Iros building Lighthouse.

630 BC (6)



IT: French wish to trade maps--of course!

610 BC (7)

Calcutta granery -> worker. Sent one of the warrior scouts south of Joanie's lands on a long goto to the unexplored areas--forgive me--I know this is a SG faux pas, but it is just not worth messing with him until he gets to Joanie's lands.

590 BC (8)

Lahore worker -> temple. Warrior arrives in Karachi just as it grows

570 BC (9)


WC learned, Philosophy ordered up. Delhi setter -> spear. Bombay setter -> spear. Calcutta worker -> settler. Settlers sent on goto the yellow and pink dots per Sirian's request.

550 BC (10)

Madras settler -> settler. Bangalore worker -> granery. I left movement on the settler just produced out of Madras. I think it should go to get that wheat north of calcutta, which was in the area not covered by Sirian's dotmap. A taxman is needed in Kolhaper until the warrior build completes--Ozy please do this, I did not notice until after I created the save

The Game

 

[Ozymandous]

Early: Built settlers, workers and spearmen. I had thought to swap from Philosophy to something the AI had so we'd not pay full price for the discovery, but didn't. 3/4's o the way through my turn the time to research Philosophy dropped to 1 so we ended up researching something the AI did anyway.

Mid: Settled the yellow and grey dots south of Delhi. Sent a settler up to the wheat above Calcutta (which formed our 12th city, Chittagong). Also sent a settler to the East of Chittagong to the closer of the Iron sites. This settler is heading to the coastal, non-bonus grassland square next to the river and 2 squares SW of the whale and 2 squares SE of the iron.

Late: Build more settlers, workers and spearmen with occasional temples thrown in for good measure. There are three workers busting butt to build a road up to the FP site. The settler is finished moving and ready to form the FP site, I hope I didn't mess up with forming the other two closer cities around Delhi while waiting for the FP settler to arrive. I have Delhi making one last settler in case we want a city down south.

Do we want another city (third ring?) south of Delhi past where the white dot was and West of the yellow dot?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/SSB-350BC.zip

 

[Sirian]

Ozy: yes. We do want to push toward the AI's and grab a third ring. The more the merrier. What we don't want to do is slog the FP too much, so we want to try and grab DISTANT locations now, ones that would be farther from the capital than the FP is, or else grabbing sites we don't want to risk losing to the AI. Nothing built farther away from the capital than the FP will impact FP completion speed. You can go back and check the Epic Three reports for illustration if needed.

If we leave all the second hub cities (that will belong to the FP eventually) that lie between the FP and the capital for later, but continue to settle other sites, we can have our cake and eat it too. That is, we can continue settling without pause, but also get the FP built fairly quickly.

See my Epic 20 report for what it looks like if the FP ends up being built TOO slowly.


- Sirian

 

[Ozymandous]

I guess it shows that I never truly analyzed Civ3 as I probably should have, hence my questions. I know how a slow FP can put a LARGE dent in the development of a Civ as I have done that way to many times to count.

There are plenty of sites that are east of the Spices, and up from there that should be productive later on. Settling on the far side of the FP is good, but until we get a road there the settlers take a gawd-awful long time to arrive.

Who's up next?

 

[Skyfish]

OK
I got it guys

 

[Skyfish]

No change except 2 workers clearing Jungle by Lahore while improvements are still needed are taken off duty.

330bc : FP site Punjab is founded and put to Temple. Spear sent towards it. Need....more....workers
Some units on auto-move and I notice that a settler is heading towards the "wrong" Iron site
The one Sirian mentionned was right above the FP, I redirect the settler to go towards Punjab, we lose some turns but we
already ahve settlers on the move and it's not worth settling outside our FP region.
ibr : americans demand 25g plus territory map, I give in
310: calcutta Settler-> worker, Chittagong changed from Temple to worker
290 : Delhi Settler -> settler, Bangalore worker-> worker
Delhi settler sent South with a Spear.
270 : Madras settler->settler, Jaipur worker->worker Bombay is our garrison city of course.
210 : Calcutta worker-> worker
190 : CoL comes in, start Republic at min science, we make 25gpt per turn. Delhi Settler-> spear Chitta worker-> worker
Forest chop in Calcutta to make use of the bonus food of game and Kolhapur to speed up the granary, help roads and irrigation.
Bomaby hits size 6 and would riot next turn no I shed a settler out of it. Karachi gets to size 4 and needs a clown to not riot.
Luxes need to be upped to 10% because of Bombay but it won't last.
170 : Granary in Lahore rushed.
150 : Bomaby Madras produce settler and Bangalore a worker.

We have 7 settlers on the move, 1 already down South, 2 on their way down there and 4 going up North towards Punjab.

Fingers crossed for not too many weeds, concentrated on settlers and workers.

Keep building

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/SSB-150_BC.zip

 

[Ozymandous]

Hi Skyfish,

Two questions:

1) The workers you stopped clearing jungle, where did you send them? The reason I ask is it's more efficient via worker time to clear jungle then road, which is what I was doing to try to connect the cities on the far side of lake with the rest of the empire.

2) The Iron settler: How many turns will it take that settler to move all the way up past Punjab? As mentioned in my write-up I sent that settler there because it is closer to our core, thus iron will be conected sooner, and the city site was still decent since it was third ring, or maybe a little outside third ring, for a city site..

Just curious because I know I make weedy decisions, but didn't think those were that bad. Not trying to second guess you, just wanting to know the reasons why so I will remember not to do that in the future.

 

[Bam-Bam]

Ozy--IIRC, we want to settler beyond the FP site while the FP is being built, so that it can get built faster. Every city we plop down closer to our core than the FP site will make the FP city more corrupt.

That's why Skyfish's move did not surprise me.

 

[Tsukemono5]

[/lurking]Wow. This is looking cool. I'll be interested to see how this turns out . And Sirian, in case you couldn't tell from the sig, you are my idol . Good luck to y'all.[lurking]

 

[Skyfish]

Hey Ozy
Sorry if my remarks were a bit harsh, I did not mean to imply you did anything wrong, we all have different ways of playing.
You are totally right about the workers it's not a good idea to have them road on jungle. I stopped clearing jungle which was going to take 8 turns or so to have the workers improve the tiles of the towns on the other side of the lake, that would help out those cities much faster than by having a road to the capital (which is true helps with the corruption). It 's just a question of priority, I would play it like this so I did it, does not mean you were wrong to have them clear jungle...
As for the Iron site, well I find Sirian's suggestion of settling PAST the FP site extremely interesting and want to test it out for sure. Settling the Iron was priority but not urgent as we were not competing with an AI for the site.
All I make a bit of sense...

 

[Sirian]

Vetoing workers on jungle with only 8 turns left to go sounds weedy from here. Throwing away invested worker turns in the name of efficiency doesn't strike me as ideal. Sometimes even when you disagree with what others have done, you have to play along so as not to waste important investments already committed. I vetoed the philosophy research on my last round, but there were all of three light bulbs lost there. The answer I would have chosen would have been to let them continue and to press on with training more workers. We have a LOT of jungle to clear and need to get a cleared path south to the spices and a road down there in case the Americans come knocking at some point without asking. There is more to weighing strategic value of worker jobs than just the local benefit to the immediate city. You have not yet begun to see the number of workers we're going to have!

I would prefer that we delay iron hookup for a while, unless we get into a war. Yeah, two sources is fairly secure, but I have seen two sources dry up before. Iron is THE most expensive thing to buy, so we'll be much better off if we have our own come rail time. It's not like this game's rules allow us to "go get some" if our own sources disappear. If we do hook one up, don't connect the other. Secure it, but don't connect it, even if the first one dries up, unless the need is very high. Cash for upgrading troops at any time should be plentiful at least through the early middle ages.

Also no need to "test" the "theory" about more distant cities having no effect on corruption at closer cities. Arathorn first made that observation over a year ago and I confirmed it. It's a fact. What to do with that understanding is open to debate, but I think the pros of an earlier FP will outweigh the cons of slowing startup on the region I've asked you all to skip settling for the time being, since we're still getting the benefit of settling, just doing it in other locations first.

I'll be back shortly with my turn results.


- Sirian