Sirp's Training Day Game for Aspiring Monarchs

oh btw Matt_g, if you really want to play, you are welcome to play a shadow of my turn, so you can see how well you do compared to me (and yes by saying things like this I know I risk embarassing myself when someone does better than me :) )

-Sirp.
 
That's a damn good idea. :goodjob:
I'll do that and e-mail it to you.
 
Originally posted by Renata
Never seen snow! Yowsa.

I was just wandering through smilie land and came across this one; I think it looks a lot like matt_g right now don't you all?

aazcold.gif



:p

Renata

Not enough snow. :p
BTW, how are the midterms going?
 
500AD (IT): First I reorganize things a little: optimize Athens to grow back up to size 12 after being hit by disease. Change it to a bank, which I'm a little divided over, since an extra knight would help us out.

I see that 10% luxuries really are necessary now. Several major cities couldn't handle 0% luxuries, and won't be able to until we have cathedrals online.

Now what do we have? 2 knights, 3 horsemen (not counting the one in the nether-nethers up north), an MDI, a swordsman, and 6 warriors, only some of whom are veterans.

Does anyone see any of our cities waiting desperately for the next technology to be discovered so that they can build some vital improvement? No? I didn't think so. I cut science off completely, which will give us 209 gold per turn, something we need for two purposes: (1) upgrading units (Renata: :) ), (2) investigating Aztec cities.

I shuffle troops around. Recalling a horseman and some warriors from the north. One horseman upgrade to a knight.

Ok, we're going to need more than 5 knights, so painfully I switch Athens back to a knight.

510AD (1): After growth, Athens is allowed to swipe an irrigated grassland off Delphi, so it can grow to size 12 in just 3 turns. Athens is our most valuable asset, we have to manage it wisely.

Upgrades taking place.

Too many of our workers are too far north. I start moving them back to our core, where there's still lots of work to be done. Among other things, Sparta is about to hit size 12, and will need to be reoptimized for shields.

520AD (2): Athens completes knight. Now it is set to build a bank. That's right, we're going to keep building and building even as we prepare for war! Thermopylae builds a cathedral. I'm going to get one MDI out of it before getting it to build another bank.

Thessalonica worker -> courthouse. Our northern lands need lots of courthouses to become productive.

I investigate our targets. Tlacopan is size 6, guarded by a spearman and a pikeman, both regular. It's building a cathedral, and is due to grow in 7 turns. They have pikemen. We must strike fast and hard. Tlacopan is the must-take city in this war. Four knights would have a high chance of taking it, but I want to be certain, so I will send five.

Malinalco is a secondary target, and we will attack it with an infantry force. It is guarded by two regular spearmen, and unlike Tlacopan it does NOT have a barracks, so upgrades are less likely. It's just size 2, and no walls, so no defensive bonuses.

530AD (3): Marathon library -> courthouse.

lots more of our workers diverted south. This little sub-kingdom we have up north is cute and all, but our core has a much higher priority over it. Sparta and Thermopylae could have substantially increased shield production with appropriate reoptimization of the surrounding terrain.

More upgrades as we gear up for war.

540AD (4) Corinth temple -> MDI. They're not going to be growing too soon with that jungle around, so I get them to build military instead of a cathedral. However, we really need our workers doing things like making Corinth stronger, instead of making some fishing village in the boonies have a mine that's production is lost to corruption anyhow.

Ok we're cashed up, so I turn research back up, Astronomy in 3 turns @+7 gold, and we have 347 in our coffers.

Athens and Delphi both reach size 12, and Delphi is *extremely* shield-poor for a size 12 city, with 9 shields. We need more workers in our core!

550AD (5) Sparta Cathedral -> Bank. Thermopylae MDI -> Bank.

Here is a picture of the graphic front:

SP5-battle-front.jpeg


The red stack consists of 5 knights and 1 hoplite. It will be able to reach Tlacopan on this turn. The green stack consists of one knight, a hoplite three MDIs, and a swordsman (upgrading the swordsman would have delayed our attack by a turn). The stack will hold in the forest outside of Malinaco, before attacking the city.

The eastern front will be a defensive one. We have enough hoplites and MDIs over there to defend it. The Aztecs have no road network over there (and we have updated maps), so we know they won't be able to attack us fast.

If the red stack captures Malinaco with ease, some of the unused knights might go north and attack Tzinzuntzen. A priority in this war will be to get our golden age going, as well as deny the Aztecs of theirs.

War declared. Our knight stack moves in:

vet knight vs regular pike: victory 3-1.

They have another regular pike in there now.

vet knight vs regular pike: loss 2-4. They promote
vet knight vs veteran pike (2): win 2-2.

Infantry stack moved as planned.

I make sure that the civil disorder popup is on, so that if war weariness strikes, I can use scroll ahead to stop disorder in every city after the first.

560AD (6): Even though I had several hoplites next to Aztec archers, they are all too scared to attack. We may have to end up generating a golden age with an offensive hoplite.

We take Malinalco for the loss of one MDI and one hoplite. Yes, I got a hoplite to try attacking a one-hitpoint spearman. He died.

I leave a veteran hoplite defending two captured Aztec workers in the west, near some archers. Hopefully this will bait them into attacking.

570AD (7): Hammurabi has the nerve. The nerve I tell you to threaten us for Feudalism. We tell him to go jump. He does.

We discover Astronomy -> Navigation, so we can discover other civs asap. 5 turns @ -25. Athens is switched to Copernicus.

The Aztecs have shown up with an MDI. Their archers are cowards and didn't attack our hoplite.

Tzintunzen is captured by two knights.

580AD (8): An Aztec MDI shows up outside outside Tlacopan. Maybe these MDIs are made of slightly sterner stuff than the cowardly archers, and we will actually get a golden age!

590AD (9): An Aztec MDI attacks us in Malinalco, across a river no less, but our hoplite loses 3-3! Argh!

Then an archer finally decides to attack us at Tlacopan, and our hoplite wins. We enter a golden age! :hammer:

Corinth MDI -> Cathedral. Knossos worker -> Marketplace. Mycenae Marketplace -> Temple. Miletos Worker -> Worker.

Tlaxcala captured from the Aztecs. But uhh...I misclick when defending Malinalco and leave the city with one defender two few. It has a 2-hitpoint MDI in there, and there is an Aztec 2 hitpoint MDI across a river from it. It may fall next turn, although should be easily retaken.

600AD (10): the Aztec MDI attacks Malincalo but we win, 2-0! Whew. An Aztec MDI outside Tlacopan attacks, and kills our hoplite, but is redlined. On our turn, I attack him with a knight, trying to sieze the mountain. We lose 4-0, and he promotes. Grrrrrr. I decide not to attack again.

Contacting Montezuma, I notice that an important development has occurred! He has contacted the Ottomans, and will trade contact, and Engineering, which he now has, for peace!

Rather than do anything myself, I will leave these decisions to Renata however :) My turn would feel incomplete if I didn't leave her with something tough to handle.

Remember to optimize cities for shields or food appropriately. We're in our golden age and want lots of civic improvements built. Thermopylae could go for a Wonder after its bank is finished, maybe a Bach's or Smith prebuild. Either of those wonders would be very valuable.


The Game

(note: on my personal webspace since upload server wasn't working, so might be removed later).

Good luck Renata!

-Sirp.

EDIT: PS: Matt, did you play a shadow? I didn't get an email from you....
 
The midterm is done done done done done done done done done done done done done done done done .....

What a load off, I barely even care if I pass.

(Well, I do, really, just not right *now*. :) )

Thanks for asking,

Renata
 
Great to hear Renata :) What kind of course are you doing? Master's? PhD?

Now you can get back to the important things, like managing our glorious empire!

-Sirp.
 
Originally posted by Sirp
EDIT: PS: Matt, did you play a shadow? I didn't get an email from you....

No, I didn't. About 15 minutes after I posted that, we lost power here. :(
Just got it back about 30 minutes ago. Good thing to. It was getting damn cold!
I'm not going to do it now that I've read your report. It would be tainted, I have to much information I wouldn't have under normal conditions.
Sounds like an awesome turn! :goodjob:

You know I kinda like your idea about turning this into a TDG for aspiring warmongerers. That is one aspect of the game I suck at.
My main problem is wanting an overwhelmingly decisive force. As a result, many times I wait too long and miss the best 'window of opportunity'.
I mean, why kill a fly with a fly swatter when a 155mm howitzer is so much more decisive. :p :D :lol:
 
Well done. Threw a world of hurt on the Aztecs.

It may be a good time to take the Aztec peace offering, consolidate our gains and utilize our GA to the fullest.

Once our GA is over, we should re-evaluate our position and start some more conquests.

Matt - keep warm
 
Originally posted by Sirp
Great to hear Renata :) What kind of course are you doing? Master's? PhD?

Now you can get back to the important things, like managing our glorious empire!

-Sirp.

Chemistry master's. Over two years to go, yet, so the fun's just beginning. :rolleyes:

But yes, the empire. Read through the turn report, and much as I would like to expend some of my leftover midterm adrenaline on the Aztecs, I think it would be silly not to take the peace deal. If we do, we will have gotten a new contact, a tech and four nice cities (edit: correction, three nice cities and a jungle-ridden worker-black-hole ;) ) for very little cost in units or production; I can't see that pace continuing without a lot more offense than we currently have.

Anyway, I've yet to actually look at the save, so I may change my mind if something sticks out as a target.

@ matt - Yeah judgment in these matters is hard, isn't it? At least you're erring on the safe side. Take 10 knights where five would've sufficed and you lose a few turns; take five where you needed ten and you're likely to lose the game. :)

Renata

'got it'
 
Sirp,
Since you said you have never seen snow, I thought I would post a couple of pics. I know it's not the same thing, and yes I know you've seen pics of snow before, but I thought you might like to see what was going on here in Dacono, Colorado (USA) today. :)

Both these were taken looking out my kitchen window. The first one is my truck, which BTW was cleaned off and driven to the store about 18 hours ago. You get a better idea of how much we have had here looking at the neighbors car across the street. We have actually had more snow than it looks like in these pics. The wind is really moving it around. The drifts in places are 5 to 6 feet deep. (152 to 183cm)
CO_snowstorm1.jpg

CO_snowstorm2.jpg


Matt
(muttering something about it probably being real nice and warm in Sydney)

Edit: Hopefully the upload server will start working shortly. It took the upload but doesn't want to respond to the request.
 
Making peace with Azteca is definitely the course of action I'd have taken, I just wanted to see what everyone else was going to do :)

We want to happily enjoy our Golden Age in peace, and I really didn't build enough military to expect us to conquer the Aztecs completely, especially since they have some pikes and MDI.

My only regret is that Renata doesn't have the expectation and pressure of having to take out 6 cities with 6 knights :(

Once our golden age is over, we'll hopefully have most major cities full of improvements and ready to churn out units in the time of cavalry. With cavalry, we should be able to take out the entire continent, especially if our rivals don't have saltpeter.

@Matt: I was half-joking about it being a training day for warmongers, but I guess we could do that. Main problem is that it's easy to teach people how to be warmongers when we have knights and they have spearmen :)

Still, we'll invade some other civilizations on another continent, which will be a good lesson in setting up beachheads.

I think it's good to be fairly conservative when attacking. Checking out the enemy city beforehand is definitely worth it. Did you notice how conservative I was? They had a regular pike and a regular spear, and I took along five veteran knights. However yes, it is possible to be too conservative, although imo that's not easy :)

I've always imagined Colorado as a huge desert, with lots of cactus and canyons. Then again, I know that it snows alot in Denver. Your pictures come up as broken images though :(

-Sirp.
 
Main problem is that it's easy to teach people how to be warmongers when we have knights and they have spearmen :)
Agreed.
Still, we'll invade some other civilizations on another continent, which will be a good lesson in setting up beachheads.
Sounds good.
I've always imagined Colorado as a huge desert, with lots of cactus and canyons. Then again, I know that it snows alot in Denver. Your pictures come up as broken images though
:(
The images have been off and on all day. The fileserver is being real bi**hy today. As far as Colorado is concerned, lots of canyons but no real desert or cactus like you're thinking. This state is the heart of the Rocky Mountains. There are 54 mountains here that are 14,000 ft.+ above sea level. (14,000 ft. = 4267 meters)
We have a little of everything here. The eastern third of the state is the beginning of the Great Plains and the breadbasket of America. It is kinda desolate but it's not desert. Lots of sagebrush.
Then of course the Rockies take up most of the remaining 2/3 of the state. We have some of the best hunting, fishing, and snow skiing in North America here, not to mention white water rafting etc. I love this place. The only place I have ever been that I would rather be is in Alaska. Now that's God's country!
Ok, enough off topic rambling. :o
 
It's time for another quiz: making people content.

(1) what are the improvements that make unhappy people content? How many people do each of them affect? When do they become available? How much do they cost to build and to maintain?
(2) Which of these improvements should we build? Comment generally on which 'contentness' improvements it's best to build, when, and why.

-Sirp.
 
General Overview (not suggestions for this game in particular)

Temple - Cerremonial Burrial - Costs 60 shields, or 30 for religious civs - Maintenence 1 gold. Makes 1 unhappy citizen content. Often over rated in my opinion. Build these lots and early if you are a religious civ because they are so cheap and boost culture and expands boarders. For religious civs, they are often worth whiping up for those last 19 shields at shield poor sites as they are their own answer to the whip unhappyness. Build them rarely at all early on if you are a scientific civ because libraries are so cheap and the prefered route to culture and boarder expansion. For scientific civs, the only reason to build these in most cases is to bring a critical, can't wait resource or other needed tile within your boarders before the discovery of Literature, or to fight a cultural battle for control of a tile with a neighbor. Later on you may want it so you can build a cathedral. Build it asap if you are going for a culture win.

If your civ has neither of these traits, your priority in building them depends on which route you choose to pursue for happyness (luxuries/markets or Temple/Cathedral), and on many other factors, such as if you are doing your own research (and therefore need libraries) or buying (need markets/banks), or if you are in a cultural battle.

Colosseum - Construction - Costs 120 sheilds and 2g maintenence - Makes 2 unhappy people content. Build these almost never unless going for a culture win, especially with a religious civ. They cost almost as much to build for a non religious civ as a cathedral, and MORE to build than a cathedral for a religious civ. Bad shield cost for the culture and happyness generated most of the time.

Cathedral - Monotheisim (and requires a temple) - Costs 160 shields, or 80 for a religious civ and 2g maintenence - Makes 3 unhappy citizens content. Great buy for a religious civ, or any civ that is going to get, or has Sistine, because that wonder doubles the effect of cathedrals. Also good for civs with limited access to luxuries.

Marketplace - Currency - Costs 100 Shields and 1g maintenece - makes a variable # of people content. Often overlooked by new players, this is the absolute BEST way to generate happyness if you have access to lots of luxuries because it kills 2 birds with one stone. It generates extra commerce AND makes extra people happy at the same time if you have 3 or more luxuries.
3 lux = 1 extra happy face
4 lux = 2 extra happy face
5 lux = 4 extra happy face
6 lux = 6 extra happy face
7 lux = 9 extra happy face
8 lux = 12 extra happy face

Also, lux happyness, like entertainer and tax slider happyness, doesnt just make people content, but can make them happy.

Police Station - Communisim - Costs 160 shields and 2g maintenence - Makes ??# of people stay content in a representative government (Republic and Democracy) durring wartime based on war wearyness. They don't do annything for happyness when at peace, but fight war wearyness via a formula that as far as i know no one has made an exact crack of. Build these when expecting to fight long wars, or wars with high attrition rates from a representative government. They also lower corruption, so can be good builds for your marginally productive cities to increase their output, especially when combined with a courthouse and/or WLTKD.

Wonders - Mostly NOT available on the higher difficulties. Rarely at all on Dieity except with a leader (though we did self build FOUR pre industrial wonders in my current Dieity SG, that is EXTREMELY rare, possibly unprecidented to get that many from scratch.)

The Oracle - Mysticisim - Costs 300 shields - Expires at Theology -Doubles the effect of temples. Build this almost never. It comes available very early when you really have way more pressing needs like settlers or military or actually useful wonders, and expires not long after it is built. The only exception would be when going for a 20k culture win.

The Hanging Gardens - Monarchy - Costs 300 shields - Makes 3 people in its city content, and one citizen in all other cities - Expires at Steam Power. I presonally really like this wonder, and on emperor will sometimes build it as my first wonder if the cascade cooperates. It is often very useful to have in your best producing city so that you can keep everyone working and may therefore help you get some later wonders.

The Sistine Chappel - Theology - 600 shields - Doubles the effect of all Cathedrals - Never Expires. This is the mother of all happyness wonders and a personal favorite of mine. Unless you are swimming in happyness from 6-7 homegrown lux, build this whenever you can get away with it, especially if you are religious (comobs with the cheap cathedrals). And if you are swimming in happyness, build it anyway if you can for denial to the AI (though sometimes other wonders like Sun Tsu's or Leonardos are more valuable to deny the AI its true).

JS Bach's Cathedral - Music Theory - 600 shields - Never Expires - Makes 2 citizens in each city on its continent content. This is the sister of the mother of all happyness wonders on a large continent or pangea map. Build this whenever practical or possible, taking other needs into consideration.

Shakespears Theater - Free Artistry - 400 Shields - Never Expires -Makes 8 citizens in its city content . Build this when going for a culture win only in most cases. There are other uses for it, like so you can draft a jillion extra defenders w/o the city rioting, but most stratagies that involve its use are really exploitive of loopholes in the game.

Cure for Cancer - Genetics - Costs 1000 shields - Never Expires - Makes one extra citizen content in each city. Build this??? I've never even researched genetics in any game :p

Universal Sufferage - Industialization - Costs 800 shields - Never expires. Decreases war wearyness. See Police Station above.

And finally, getting technical, any building that increases commerce in its city when comboed with the use of the luxury slider can increase the ammount of happyness in its city becuse more coins are available and could be spent on lux taxes. Even building a road on a tile being worked could possibly have that effect.

I'll avoid getting technical about the whole MP for ceartian governments thing I think since those aren't city improvements. :)

Edit: typo in original post where i said Sufferage was 600 shields.
 
Temple - cost 60 shields (halved if religious)/upkeep of 1 gpt. Available with ceremonial burial, and makes one unhappy person content. Effect is doubled if you get the Oracle (mysticism). I can never remember the shield cost of wonders.

Cathedral - costs 160/80 or 180/90 - I can never remember - , makes 2 unhappy citizens content, upkeep 2 gpt. Available with monotheism. Effect is doubled if you get the Sistine Chapel (theology).

I love Sistine, so tend to build a lot of both temples and cathedrals. Maybe too many for best cash-flow efficiency, but I can't resist those smiling faces. :)

Colosseums I'm not sure - do they make 2 unhappy citizens content or 2 content citizens happy? In any case I rarely need to build them. Upkeep 2gpt but I'm not sure what they cost (120 sounds about in the ballpark). Available with construction.

Bach's (Music Theory) will make 2 unhappy citizens content in each city on its own continent, essentially a free cathedral. I haven't built this lately because I've been playing a lot of archipelagos and fast-research games, but it's a nice wonder.

Ummm, what else ... Hanging Gardens (Monarchy) - 3 content in own city and 1 content in all the rest. I kinda like this one. It's saved my bacon in a couple of recent games where I had a critical lux shortage early. Usually I don't need it, though.

Marketplaces are content->happy improvements, not unhappy->content, so I think they're outside the scope of this quiz. If not, they cost 80 (1 gpt upkeep) and are available with currency. I build as many of these as I can get, as fast as I can get 'em.

One question regarding improvements and happiness. In which order does the game calculate? Say for instance, you have a size 12 city with marketplace only, 4 luxuries, no temple or cathedral, and you're in a republic so MPs are irrelevant. (Regent/monarch level) Will the city riot? Without the marketplace the city would have 2 content and 10 unhappy citizens. (I'm ignoring any commerce effects here - I dont' really understand those either! :p) Will the marketplace give all six of its potential happy faces, or will it only affect the two citizens that are already content? Or is it somewhere in between, like, it takes two marketplace happy faces to make an unhappy citizen happy, for example.) And if, or instance, the city had temple plus marketplace instead of just a marketplace, how does that affect things?

Renata, who could really work these things out herself one of these days using the F1 screen but who keeps forgetting to do so

PS forgot a question. Which ones should we build? I'd like to get one of Sistines or Bach's. We shouldn't need both, especially with our lux situation looking good. How long till our furs are hooked up, or are they already and I just forgot? I'd go marketplace first for happiness, then temple/cathedral as necessary in whichever cities need the help.
 
Originally posted by Renata
One question regarding improvements and happiness. In which order does the game calculate? Say for instance, you have a size 12 city with marketplace only, 4 luxuries, no temple or cathedral, and you're in a republic so MPs are irrelevant. (Regent/monarch level) Will the city riot? Without the marketplace the city would have 2 content and 10 unhappy citizens. (I'm ignoring any commerce effects here - I dont' really understand those either! :p) Will the marketplace give all six of its potential happy faces, or will it only affect the two citizens that are already content? Or is it somewhere in between, like, it takes two marketplace happy faces to make an unhappy citizen happy, for example.) And if, or instance, the city had temple plus marketplace instead of just a marketplace, how does that affect things?

In your scenario above this is what will happen.
Market= 6 happy faces

The first 2 luxes will makes your 2 content citizens happy.
The third lux (2 happy faces) will make 1 citizen happy. (One face will make him content then the second will make him happy.)
Same for the fourth lux, it will make 1 unhappy citizen happy.

So yes, it will riot because you will have 4 happy and 8 unhappy.

If you had 5 luxes you would have 5 happy, 1 content and 7 unhappy, since the fifth and sixth give 3 happy faces. (Add a temple and I believe you would have 5 happy, 2 content and 7 unhappy. I don't think temples can raise people from content to happy. Just from unhappy to content.
6 luxes> 7 happy and 5 unhappy.

Luxury number 7 and 8 would add 2 more happy each, so even with all 8 you couldn't get the city into WLTKD without lux tax or a entertainer. (You would have 11 happy and 1 unhappy with all 8 luxes, and if you had that temple the unhappy one would be content and the city would be in WLTKD.)
 
Thanks, Matt. :) So if a city has no lux tax, four luxuries, temple plus cathedral plus marketplace (no wonders) on monarch level it's good for ...

(counts on fingers, needs to use a few toes too)

.. still only good for size 11 w/o rioting? (Five content citizens made happy and one unhappy made content.)

Renata
 
@ Renata

Monarch = 2 content
Temple = 1 content
Cathedral = 3 content

Content base = 6

Market with 4 lux = 6 happyness making smileys so all 6 content citzens become happy leaving you 6 happy and 6 unhappy citizens, so you are good to go.

On Emperor/Dieity, you would riot with this setup unless you made the 12th citizen a specialist.
 
Originally posted by Renata
Thanks, Matt. :) So if a city has no lux tax, four luxuries, temple plus cathedral plus marketplace (no wonders) on monarch level it's good for ...

(counts on fingers, needs to use a few toes too)

.. still only good for size 11 w/o rioting? (Five content citizens made happy and one unhappy made content.)

Renata

Actually in the scenario above it would be good at size 12 and riot at 13.

2 content natively + 4 lux with market = 4 happy
temple and cathedral = 4 content (3 for cathedral and 1 for the temple),
and of course you would have 4 unhappy.

HTH :)
Matt
 
Ah, that goes to the other (implied) half of my original question - in what order are these happiness/contentness effects applied?

Yours works if you do the marketplace effect first; mine works if you do temples/cathedrals first. (2 natively content, goes to five with temple/cathedral; marketplace's six-happy-face contribution makes all of those five happy plus one unhappy citizen content; thus still leaving six unhappy in a size-12 city)

Renata, confused :p
 
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