Skaven Design and Ideas.

[frenzyslave]

About that other problem:
"you are using warpstone".
"no I'm not, we just live on top of a cursed pit"
"Never mind, we want that too, perform any death rituals your race requires."
how about a national wonder/ritual to get rid of any warpstone in a civ for ever?

Oh yes, that would be nice. Was high elves, and built a city (unknown to me at the time) that it sat on a warpstone. By the time I found out, Ooops... there goes politics out the window...

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

is everyones brightstone still turning into warpstone when they build a city next to it?

 

[frenzyslave]

Yep. But it doesnt happen to the ai... Araby has a city built on brightstone, and another has it in a mine in its fat cross.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

that is another resource issue.

The get rid of warpstone option would be too powerfull if ALL warpstone was removed for ever. Either all WS for a limited time, or one warpstone for ever...maybe a great person can construct a 'seal' or 'vault' improvement on top.
...do normal unmined WS also yield the negative diplofier IF worked inside a city radius?

anyway, let's get back on topic.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=189020&page=6
(posts #116-117)

Spoiler :

current state of concept:
(1) build tokens in a city with a refinery building.
(!) copy/paste takeEquipment methods from FfH2.
(2) casters can take a warptoken.
(!) add addToken/removeToken methods, which checks for the token#-promotions already on the unit
then adds/removes one accordingly.
(3) caster can consume token,
to recharge hasCast or to increase spell power (adding warp-power# promotion for one turn, then removing it). Chance of success is 75%. caster.removeToken()
(!) failure mode is up for discussion and balancing.
currently I think the lake of despare has a nice mix of badstuff to copy.

edit: maybe dump the whole step 1 and make warptokens available to casters at cities (and other warpstone sources) in return for gold.

 

[deadliver]

didnt notice that, and i also noticed that civs that use warpstone still have -tive relations with anyone wlese who uses it. im not sure how to fix that.

Would it be hard to have the Skaven AI demand warpstone resources on pain of war?

From the background in the RPG they will trek far just to get little pieces of it because they cannot really use magic that well w/o it. Yeah I saw that other evil civs like you a little more if you have warpstone.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

Spoiler :

in leaderhead there are these tags:

...
<StrategicBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>NONE</StrategicBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
			<HappinessBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>NONE</HappinessBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
			<HealthBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>NONE</HealthBonusRefuseAttitudeThreshold>
...
<iBonusTradeAttitudeDivisor>0</iBonusTradeAttitudeDivisor>
			<iBonusTradeAttitudeChangeLimit>0</iBonusTradeAttitudeChangeLimit>
...
<iAttitudeBadBonus>0</iAttitudeBadBonus>
...
<iAttitudeBadBonus>0</iAttitudeBadBonus>
...

in traits:
...
nothing usefull.

AFAICS You can set a leader to get angry if denied a demand for one of 3 types of bonus...health, happyness and strategic, there is no provision for singling out a specific resource to demand.
you can set it's demand theshold:

...
<DemandTributeAttitudeThreshold>ATTITUDE_CAUTIOUS</DemandTributeAttitudeThreshold>
...

Plus there are several entries in the contacts and memory that apply.

I'm not going to do touch leader behaviour anytime soon though.
Maybe religion tollerance could be finetuned better, they're all -100 for other or +100 for same now. (xept for DE who are 50/50 on chaos/elf) Rather intolerant lot.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Maybe the Skaven should have a happiness bonus for warpstone, as well as the +1 unhealthiness w/ the Cursed Pit.

 

[Arexack_heretic]

can be done through buildings, not through leaders.

I'll limit WS mining to a special improvement only buildable by skaven (or maybe at an evil-only TECH_WARPSTONE_REFINEMENT)
this will limit the resource effects (yer using WS/resource itself)to those that really want to mine it specifically and leave only the bonus effects (sickness, unit chance of mutation) for those that cannot/wantnot.

building a mine on top should then no longer reap the resource, but just production bonus.
About the pit...dunno. I like it, but it might continue to disrupt relations.

ps Do all warpstone spawn monsters or just the pit etc?

 

[deadliver]

can be done through buildings, not through leaders.

I'll limit WS mining to a special improvement only buildable by skaven (or maybe at an evil-only TECH_WARPSTONE_REFINEMENT)
this will limit the resource effects (yer using WS/resource itself)to those that really want to mine it specifically and leave only the bonus effects (sickness, unit chance of mutation) for those that cannot/wantnot.

building a mine on top should then no longer reap the resource, but just production bonus.
About the pit...dunno. I like it, but it might continue to disrupt relations.

ps Do all warpstone spawn monsters or just the pit etc?

Warpstone is a powerful resource that all civs would try to get (remember Mordheim?) *sigh* I should probably not bother contributing to the forums cos my information is more or less RPG based...Warpstone can be used as a substitute for ANY magic item/spell component (i.e. you need Khaine's tears OR Warpstone.)

GUYS especially Ploep what background info is being used?!?

 

[Arexack_heretic]

I know.
but there have to be rules or a game won't work.
It has been decided not to use a magicalpower currency, and no spell components are required except for the resources.

The things sorcerers do and the things a civilization will admit to doing are two things.

All in all warpstone is dangerous stuff, unstable and unhealthy.
Its like using a nuclear reactor to power an aiplane....sure it is powerfull and it can be done...however only a few power mad minds would considder doing it.
...such as chaotic sorcerors and necromancers (maybe a few evil ones too if insane enough)

I'm using any information I can find and making the rest up so it will work conceptually in the game.

 

[deadliver]

I know.
but there have to be rules or a game won't work.
It has been decided not to use a magicalpower currency, and no spell components are required except for the resources.

The things sorcerers do and the things a civilization will admit to doing are two things.

All in all warpstone is dangerous stuff, unstable and unhealthy.
Its like using a nuclear reactor to power an aiplane....sure it is powerfull and it can be done...however only a few power mad minds would considder doing it.
...such as chaotic sorcerors and necromancers (maybe a few evil ones too if insane enough)

I'm using any information I can find and making the rest up so it will work conceptually in the game.

Honestly, all civs would mine Warpstone. I would keep the negative/positive diplomacy modifier, perhaps this system needs refining but remember Mordheim people.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i like the idea of having a warpstone refining tech that anyone can research, but make it not part of the normal tree, like a dead end detour, (or for skaven make it part of an important branch of techs)

and i dont think ANY civ would use warpstone, certainly not woodelves, and i highly doubt lizardmen would see any use in it.

as for RPG information being 'useless', its an important source of material, especially for that material that the tabletop game does not cover, such as Cathay, Araby and other minor civs. however, for the major civs id rather stick to normal warhammer stuff, over RPG stuff

 

[Arexack_heretic]

I agree totally with you P_L, on all three counts.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Sounds good. I'll remember to try to use those resources over RPG then in my discussions.

 

[Masada]

As a general rule most civs wouldnt use Warpstone... certianly none of the Old World Human civs... it does have a habbit of killing people near/around it... Skaven seem to be somewhat immune to its effects.

And since its from the Chaos moon its well Chaotic and not terrribly well looked upon by anyone opposed to Chaos... if they know what it is anyways.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, most of the warpstone is in Chaos areas anyway.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

not really, Mordheim in the empire was demolished by a Warpstone Meteor, its now near sylvania and the vampires. i expect the more insane necromancers would enjoy harnessing its powers, but doubt the empire would liek to use it.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Yes, but wat I meant was the main people who use it are the Chaos sorcerers and the Skaven. And necromancers. Lovers of Chaos, basically.

Huh, wierd thought. Why don't the DE use warpstone? Any reason?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

because there is none in naggaroth. simpel really. the chaos wastes are too dangerous to wonder into, not even the DE go there.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I know that. I jus find it wierd. Very wierd. Hey, it would be cool if when the Skaven trade you warpstone (provided ya can convince em to, good luck) that you can make warp tokens too. Tho, that might be improbable to implement, since the mechanics of makin it work would be a bit*h and the Skaven love warpstone like a fat boy does food.