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Skullduggery Thread for Demohacking

Discussion in 'Team CivFanatics' started by YossarianLives, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    Poly chose Lizzy, they are Philisophical - I think their main motivation to go for Demo would be SoL. If they ever go for Demo ;) Can be also as 2metra said - they stole Lib just because they could ;)

    @vranasm: how is emancipation unhappiness scaling with the number of teams having it? I vaguely remember from SP that it was typically -6 for me, but I never paid attention to the number of AIs adopting it.
     
  2. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    it is bigger the more teams have it... don't remember exact formula

    -6 has to be some 20+ city with like all teams in?

    typically you don't even notice it for very long time :) i typically see something like -1 - -3 unhappy until I kill all AI's ;-)
     
  3. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I do not really remember - have not played any civ except our intrateam Pitboss for a long while :(

    You mean, if only one AI is running emancipation, the penalty is lower than if more of them are running it - correct?
     
  4. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    Isn't non-emancipation penalty simply one unhappy for each civ running Emancipation? So in typical standard size game (7 players) you'd end up with 6 unhappy in each city. At least that's what I have thought.
     
  5. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    the size of city has influence too, but basically something like that

    lower sized cities are capped so you can have size 20 city with -6 and another size 10 with -1 only or something like that...

    would have to recheck... didn't play enough of civ lately to know exactly ;-)

    but the point still remains you have a lot of leeway with emancipation especially if only 1 team runs it.
     
  6. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    I vaguely remember -6, too - maybe because I played on standard and every other AI was running emancipation. Was too long ago to remember :lol:
     
  7. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Just a brief note. According to CivStats, CP and RB have each planted new cities this turn (T160).

    RB has not taken any cities from the Germans yet this turn (and neither has WPC, but that's pretty much a given).
     
  8. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    No analysis tonight, but here's the updated tech screen:



    And here are a bunch of graphs
    Spoiler :






     
  9. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Tech screen from T161:



    CP researched Guilds. RB ran through almost 400 gold. CP, Poly and UCiv each ran through about 200.

    Bunch of graphs:

    Spoiler :






     
  10. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    I finally managed to go through and update our spreadsheet with the most current tech info:

    Spoiler :

    Still confused? Ok, here's the breakdown.

    1. Apolyton
    Total Beakers = 33,627
    Up on us:
    1 Medieval tech (Paper), 6 Renaissance techs (Economics, Gunpowder, Education, Liberalism, Printing Press, Replaceable Parts)
    Down on us:
    3 Classical techs (Aesthetics, Drama, Literature)

    2. Realms Beyond
    Total Beakers = 27,075
    Up on us:
    1 Medieval tech (Paper), 3 Renaissance techs (Education, Liberalism, Printing Press)
    Down on us:
    1 Medieval tech (Banking)

    3. CivPlayers
    Total Beakers = 21,699
    Up on us:
    1 Medieval tech (Paper), 2 Renaissance techs (Education, Liberalism)
    Down on us:
    1 Medieval tech (Banking), 1 Renaissance tech (Nationalism)

    4. CFC
    Total Beakers = 20,859
    Up on us:
    ---
    Down on us:
    ---

    5. CivFr
    Total Beakers = 20,355
    Up on us:
    2 Medieval techs (Paper, Music), 1 Renaissance tech (Printing Press)
    Down on us:
    1 Medieval tech (Banking), 1 Renaissance tech (Nationalism)

    ...(big drop)...

    6. UCiv
    Total Beakers = 8,142
    Up on us:
    ---
    Down on us:
    2 Ancient techs (Polytheism, Monotheism), 4 Classical techs (Aesthetics, Drama, HorseBack Riding, Literature), 6 Medieval techs (Banking, Engineering, Feudalism, Guilds, Machinery, Philosophy), 1 Renaissance tech (Nationalism)


    7. Germans
    Total Beakers = 6,327
    Up on us:
    ---
    Down on us:
    7 Classical techs (Aesthetics, Alphabet, Calendar, Code of Laws, Drama, Literature, Metal Casting), 6 Medieval techs (Banking, Civil Service, Engineering, Guilds, Machinery, Philosophy), 1 Renaissance tech (Nationalism)


    8. WePlayCiv
    Total Beakers = 4,446
    Up on us:
    ---
    Down on us:
    2 Ancient techs (Polytheism, Monotheism), 8 Classical techs (Aesthetics, Alphabet, Code of Laws, Drama, Horseback Writing, Literature, Metal Casting, Monarchy), 7 Medieval techs (Banking, Civil Service, Engineering, Feudalism, Guilds, Machinery, Philosophy), 1 Renaissance tech (Nationalism)
     
  11. Maga_R

    Maga_R Has quit civ

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    Thank you, Yossarian, very interesting :goodjob: Did not realize Poly is doing so well, although they must steal more than 10k beakers recently, right?
     
  12. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Very good idea of comparing those, Yossa. I see some serious mistakes in Uciv's report though. They do have Machinery. And they have Paper, I think even Education, Printing Press and Liberalism. Must check the others too.
     
  13. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Yeah, I really shorted UCiv. I wondered for a second how their total ended up so low, but instead of double-checking my work, I just chalked it up to them expanding too fast and crashing their economy. Thanks for looking over that.

    I missed Machinery, Philosophy, Paper, Printing Press, Education and Liberalism! :eek: Their true beaker total is 18,054. So, their ranking is correct, but they belong on our side of the big drop, not with WPC and the Germans.
     
  14. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Updated Tech screen:



    I didn't take a picture last turn, so here's what has happened over the past two turns.

    1. Apolyton
    Total Beakers = 35,979
    Researched Rifling!

    2. Realms Beyond
    Total Beakers = 28,755
    Researched Gunpowder

    3. CFC
    Total Beakers = 22,539
    Researched Gunpowder

    4. CivPlayers
    Total Beakers = 21,699
    Researched nothing

    5. UCiv
    Total Beakers = 20,742
    Researched Engineering and Feudalism

    6. CivFr
    Total Beakers = 20,355
    Researched nothing

    7. Germans
    Dead :(

    7. WePlayCiv
    Total Beakers = 4,950
    Researched Monarchy
     
  15. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Updated Tech screen:



    New rankings:

    1. Apolyton
    Total Beakers = 35,979
    Researched nothing

    2. Realms Beyond
    Total Beakers = 28,755
    Researched nothing

    3. CFC
    Total Beakers = 25,899
    Researched Chemistry

    4. CivFr
    Total Beakers = 22,707
    Researched Education

    5. UCiv
    Total Beakers = 22,254
    Researched Guilds

    6. CivPlayers
    Total Beakers = 21,699
    Researched nothing

    7. WePlayCiv
    Total Beakers = 4,950
    Researched nothing
     
  16. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Updated Tech screen:



    New rankings:

    1. Apolyton
    Total Beakers = 36,483
    Researched Aesthetics

    2. Realms Beyond
    Total Beakers = 29,931
    Researched Banking

    3. CFC
    Total Beakers = 25,899
    Researched nothing

    4. UCiv
    Total Beakers = 23,430
    Researched Banking

    5. CivFr
    Total Beakers = 22,707
    Researched nothing

    6. CivPlayers
    Total Beakers = 21,699
    Researched nothing

    7. WePlayCiv
    Total Beakers = 4,950
    Researched nothing
     
  17. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Updated Tech screen:



    New rankings:

    1. Apolyton
    Total Beakers = 36,987
    Researched Drama

    2. Realms Beyond
    Total Beakers = 29,931
    Researched nothing

    3. CFC
    Total Beakers = 25,899
    Researched nothing

    4. CivPlayers
    Total Beakers = 25,731
    Researched Philosophy Stole Nationalism from RB

    5. UCiv
    Total Beakers = 23,598
    Researched Polytheism

    6. CivFr
    Total Beakers = 22,707
    Researched nothing

    7. WePlayCiv
    Total Beakers = 5,370
    Researched Horseback Riding
     
  18. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Updated Tech screen (T167):



    New rankings:

    1. Apolyton
    Total Beakers = 37,323
    Researched Literature

    2. Realms Beyond
    Total Beakers = 29,931
    Researched nothing

    3. CivPlayers
    Total Beakers = 26,739
    Researched Music

    4. CFC
    Total Beakers = 25,899
    Researched nothing

    5. CivFr
    Total Beakers = 24,387
    Researched Gunpowder

    6. UCiv
    Total Beakers = 23,598
    Researched nothing

    7. WePlayCiv
    Total Beakers = 5,370
    Researched nothing
     
  19. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    Ok, T174 just started, we're about to get into it with RB, and I told 2metra I would do some demo-hacking. Let's start with the simple stuff, research:

    Spoiler :




    I believe RB is on their way to Rifling, just a turn or two away. 2metra can probably say more definitively. Power analysis in the next post.
     
  20. YossarianLives

    YossarianLives Deity

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    RB's Power numbers recently:

    T168: 1284k
    T169: 1310k
    T170: 1439k
    T172: 1239k
    T173: 1006k
    T174: 1026k

    So, they are currently at about 1 million soldier points (down from a high of almost 1.5 million). Those are coming from Tech, Pop, Buildings and Units.

    Tech is the most straightforward. We know exactly what they have, so we can conclusively say they have 92k soldier points in tech.

    Next is Pop. RB has 32 cities. We have visibility on 28 of them, showing us 180 total population. A conservative estimate is that they have 15-17 pop in their 4 hidden cities. Let's call it 20 to give us a nice round number. That means they have about 200 population for about 100k soldier points in pop (actually a little under this, closer to 95k probably).

    Ok, let's look at buildings. Technically, we could zoom into every single city and get a pretty good picture of this, but that would be a pain in the ass. So, let's just make some basic assumptions, they have Forges in every city and Barracks in half their cities. This is probably giving them too much credit, so we won't even count walls or castles or anything like that. So, 32 Forges at 2k soldier points apiece and 16 Barracks at 3k each gives us 112k soldier points. Then we add The Great Wall, Moai and the Heroic Epic gives an estimate of 140k soldier points from buildings.

    So far, we have about 330k soldier points in the first three categories, leaving us with about 670k soldier points in soldiers. Here's how they'll break down:

    Cats = 5k each
    Pike, LB, HA, Axes = 6k each
    XBows = 7k each
    War Eles = 8k
    Maces and Muskets = 9k
    Knights = 10k

    We have vision currently on 19 cats, 9 maces, 2 war eles, a musket and a pike on their CP front, for a total of about 205k right there. We don't have vision on the Poly front. In their Globe city they have 5 muskets and an axe for 50k, and in Eastern Dealers they have a musket and axe for 14k (this is the city that is spawning the GP that we have to raze in 2 turns). Total visible power then is 270k. That leaves about 400k in the fog. If we assume the Poly front has similar numbers, then they have another 200k over there, leaving 200k in the fog. Let's say they have on average 6k (1 axe) guarding most of their inner cities, accounting for about another 150k. That means they really have very little (maybe about 50k soldier points), hiding in wait to confront us when we are able to DOW next turn.

    My conclusion; RB is in trouble when we jump into the mix :D
     

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