Slingshots

[JoeMacUnGee]

I keep hearing about different slingshots, even one for Philosophy with the Oracle and Steel with Liberalism. Can someone explain how these work? I could see the Philosophy one, but Steel with Liberalism? That seems like it would be impossible.

 

[Absolute Zero]

It's all about getting to Liberalism early (plenty of guides/examples on that). Then, if you feel sure no one else will beat you to it, stop with 1 turn left to Liberalism, and switch to teching a prerequisite for a more advanced tech, so you can take that with Lib. For Steel, you'd need Chemistry.

 

[JoeMacUnGee]

It's all about getting to Liberalism early (plenty of guides/examples on that). Then, if you feel sure no one else will beat you to it, stop with 1 turn left to Liberalism, and switch to teching a prerequisite for a more advanced tech, so you can take that with Lib. For Steel, you'd need Chemistry.

Ah...makes sense. Thanks!

 

[NihilZero]

The idea of a slingshot is basically to maximise one of the "free" technologies (ie Oracle or Liberalism) by setting it up with a sharp beeline to some juicy, powerful, and preferably expensive tech.

Steel for Liberalism really isn't that hard, try it yourself. All that is required is a brief detour to Gunpowder and Chemistry (bulbable) and you're all set. You do need to make sure you have tight control over the Lib race and keep a close eye on your competitors.

Other well-known slingshots include Civil Service from the Oracle and various Liberalism things like Scientific Method, Military Tradition, Rifling (a tricky one) and so on. For maximum amusement value, steal the prerequisite techs with spies just before you get Liberalism.

 

[z0wb13]

I keep hearing about different slingshots, even one for Philosophy with the Oracle and Steel with Liberalism. Can someone explain how these work? I could see the Philosophy one, but Steel with Liberalism? That seems like it would be impossible.

steel off liberalism isn't too hard, but i have never been able to get anything better than metal casting, theology, code of laws or monarchy from the oracle.

i have bulbed philosophy many times with a great scientist, but past prince i don't think that you could expect to get much more than the techs mentioned.

there are some other slingshots that involve a combination of great people and the oracle/liberalism. one that springs to mind is a machinery slingshot for early cho-ko-nus, but it's not really worth it. the way it works is you oracle metal casting, then chop a forge within six turns in another city to run an engineer specialist. the great engineer that pops can bulb machinery if you have the prereqs, or complete the pyramids or whatever.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Oracle ----> feud can be decent too, since not much is getting through longbows for a long long time. It has a definite nice "stay alive" touch, if you can actually manage it.

 

[lymond]

The problem with Oracle vs. Lib is that it's hard to control the Oracle race. If I'm going for Oracle I usually try to build it as quick as possible - often taking MC, CoL or Monarchy depending on needs/strategy. In fact, at higher levels, I often ignore Oracle as it can be too hard to get unless the right things are in place.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Slingshots have their origin in when you could, with fair reliability, have certain combinations of tech/building/early GP to get to heavy techs like CS/Feudalism etc. extremely early. Now it seems to mean getting the Oracle or Liberalism.

 

[NihilZero]

steel off liberalism isn't too hard, but i have never been able to get anything better than metal casting, theology, code of laws or monarchy from the oracle.

Grashopa showed me in a recent forum game how easy it is to Oracle Civil Service, given the right circumstances. You pretty much need double gems or gold in your starting BFC. Don't build any settlers, as new cities slow your tech rate. Tech Writing and build a Library. Bulb Mathematics (Philosophical helps a lot here), tech CoL as you build the Oracle, and there you go, Bureacracy in 1600BC on Immortal. I've done it on a few maps.

There are countless problems however, not least that you need an outrageously good start. You will also be so far behind the AIs in cities and units at this point that the game might be out of reach. Sure, you can pump out settlers with your bureau cap at great speed, but the risks have to be carefully weighed. You can't do this if Shaka is ten tiles away. You also can't do it if Charlemagne is next door as he'll have about eight cities by the time you get your second, and there will be no land left for you.

Personally I almost never build the Oracle, but there are some funky tricks you can pull with it.

 

[JoeMacUnGee]

There are countless problems however, not least that you need an outrageously good start. You will also be so far behind the AIs in cities and units at this point that the game might be out of reach. Sure, you can pump out settlers with your bureau cap at great speed, but the risks have to be carefully weighed. You can't do this if Shaka is ten tiles away. You also can't do it if Charlemagne is next door as he'll have about eight cities by the time you get your second, and there will be no land left for you.

I did something with Ramesses that I thought would be impossible: I developed all but one (Buddhism) religion, and I did it with two buildings: an obelisk, and the Oracle. That city was popping Great Prophets like crazy, and I won an OCC on space race thanks to the easy diplo relations built by being able to switch religions every 5 turns

 

[Calouste]

Grashopa showed me in a recent forum game how easy it is to Oracle Civil Service, given the right circumstances. You pretty much need double gems or gold in your starting BFC. Don't build any settlers, as new cities slow your tech rate. Tech Writing and build a Library. Bulb Mathematics (Philosophical helps a lot here), tech CoL as you build the Oracle, and there you go, Bureacracy in 1600BC on Immortal. I've done it on a few maps.

There are countless problems however, not least that you need an outrageously good start. You will also be so far behind the AIs in cities and units at this point that the game might be out of reach. Sure, you can pump out settlers with your bureau cap at great speed, but the risks have to be carefully weighed. You can't do this if Shaka is ten tiles away. You also can't do it if Charlemagne is next door as he'll have about eight cities by the time you get your second, and there will be no land left for you.

Personally I almost never build the Oracle, but there are some funky tricks you can pull with it.

Sounds cool, but certainly not the easiest way to win if you start with 2 gems in the BFC.

I build the Oracle in wonderspamming games, but outside those I usually play Creative leaders, and then the Oracle means having to research 4 techs (Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood and Masonry) you would normally delay until after Mathematics or Currency.

 

[itg]

I wouldn't stake my game on an ambitious oracle slingshot--the AI oracle finish dates are too erratic. But with liberalism, you can keep pushing for more without conceding too much if the AI is teching slowly or not prioritizing lib. It's possible to get advanced techs like physics sometimes with a couple bulbs.

 

[Gwynnja]

I might try for the oracle if I have marble in the capital bfc, or if I'm industrious and it's still around after I get the mids built, but most likely take aesthetics with marble or MC with industrious. Liberalism otoh is something I try for 99.9% of the time.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Civil Service slingshot is doable at Monarch without gems. It does hamper early expansion though. If I go for the Oracle (rare) I normally settle for code of laws.

 

[Leifmk]

Nevermind.

 

[azzaman333]

Why you'd use the Oracle to get Philosophy I don't understand. Great Scientist is a much easier way to get it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Civil Service slingshot is doable at Monarch without gems. It does hamper early expansion though. If I go for the Oracle (rare) I normally settle for code of laws.

MC is very solid for IND. The forges are a good early investment in a hefty #cities and if you have anything past 1-2 coastal sites colossus is often a worthwhile draw also.

 

[JoeMacUnGee]

Why you'd use the Oracle to get Philosophy I don't understand. Great Scientist is a much easier way to get it.

Because you get it quicker with the Oracle, and if you're running a Great Prophet farm, that frees up a great prophet for theology or another tech.

 

[azzaman333]

Because you get it quicker with the Oracle, and if you're running a Great Prophet farm, that frees up a great prophet for theology or another tech.

It's incredibly easy to bulb Philosophy. You can Oracle Metal Casting, Monarchy or CoL much easier, or CS is much better if you can get it.

 

[mirthadir]

Timing on the Oracle slightshot is a bit haphazard, but you do get some idea how much time you have:
1. How many IND AIs have you met vs how unknown AIs are still to be found. A low IND count makes it a lot easier.
2. Look at the timing on SH, GW, and ToA. The later they go, the longer you tend to have to get the Oracle.
3. Who founds and exports religions. Missionaries slow the AI down a few turns.
4. Which AIs have gems/fur/Ag/Au in the BFC. For AIs prone to wonders this can make the Oracle downright impossible to grab on higher difficulties, let alone setting up a crazy slingshot.

The strongest slighshots are double bulbs, normally with philo leaders. With a phenomenal setup Sal can go writing (run four/five specs if you can whip in a Jewish temple), and tech mono/poly/masonry before bulbing Theo, then Paper, and then oracling Edu. More "reasonable" are single bulbs, this allows for things like DR, CS (though this is really pricey and I'd normally just rather skip the oracle and gun to pults), construction, and machinery (early GM bulbing MC off GLH/ToA if I recall aright).