small heros

[Darkform]

I think everyone should be able to get adventurers as 1 civ in FFH can but probably from a UB U to each civ:

Bretonions a UB Stable (squires stable) and mounted adventurer that upgrades thru the knight path.

Sylvania/Lahmia a UB Graveyard (Graveyard library)and hedge wizard looking adventurer that upgrades thru the necro path. (possibly make Lichdom a necro III spell that requires hero promotion.)

Tomb Kings a UB Graveyard (great Tomb) and priest looking adventurer that upgrades thru the Lichpriest path.

I realy don't know much about the other armys but surely there is a UB and path for a adventurer in each civ.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

why?

id much prefer to give adventurer heroes from events.

 

[Ahriman]

I think limiting factions to a couple of heroes is probably better. If you want xp, get it the hard way, from war. Adventurer from a rare event is probably ok.
This mod also doesn't have as good upgrade paths as FFH. You don't have many paths like warriors -> swordsman ->champion -> immortal.

 

[Darkform]

events sound good.

 

[Darkform]

but I think Lichdom should be a lvl 3 necro spell that requires hero and can't be used by a Vampire so at lvl 6 it is become a Master Necro or Master Necro then Lich or Master Necro then Vampire and that way you can't have a hero Lich Vampire as one unit. besides no Liches ever became Vampires and no Vampires ever became Liches but there are at least 2 Liches in Vampire Counts history: Nagash and Heinrich Kemmler (@PL was Heinrich Kemmler a Lich? everything I have seen has at least hinted at him casting the spell but old resources are hard to find. I think I read in the first armybook I had that he was considered a Liche but I'm old and my memory is not that good.)

regardless having it like this can put even more flavor to the rise and fall senario when it finally gets made because Nagash could start as a adventurer become a Necro then Master Necro then Lich.

I think I should say there should be 7 types of Necro spells:

1: just requires Necro 1
2: just requires Necro 2
3: just requires Necro 3
4: Lichdom: requires Necro 3 and can't be cast by a Vampire
5: requires Necro 1 and ether Vampire or Lich race
6: requires Necro 2 and ether Vampire or Lich race
7: requires Necro 3 and ether Vampire or Lich race

that keeps Vampires from having as many STRONG spellcasters.

of course you can say 7th edition has no Liches but it is a Strong part of the history. and besides Master Necros are not in 7th ether. it is like in 7th as soon as you know 1-3 Necro spells someone gives you a bloodkiss.

 

[Ahriman]

I definitely wouldn't want heroes to turn into liches. Bad idea. Heroes are like the faction leaders; they're named individuals with flavor and special abilities and story value (and they upgrade to higher level heroes through the game). Mannfred von Carstein isn't going to turn himself into a lich.

I see no design reason for any of this. The vampire factions necromancers can be nechrarch vampires (and voncarstein to a lesser extent) and then the Vampiric Archmage. Tomb kings won't have a necromancer. So the only "necromancer" wizards will be the Lore of Death mages and archmages, and they don't need a lichdom spell.

Liches aren't really in warhammer flavor except for specific characters (Nagash) and for Khemri, and those liches are just lich units, they don't need an in-game spell to turn them into liches.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

So the only "necromancer" wizards will be the Lore of Death mages and archmages, and they don't need a lichdom spell.

lore of death wizards and necromancers are 2 VERY different sorts of people...

 

[Darkform]

Mannfred von Carstein isn't going to turn himself into a lich.

Vampires can't turn into Liches and Mannfred Von Carstein is a Vampire.

Liche > Vampire.

there was a spell/potion to turn a Necro into a Liche and the first Vampire was someone almost getting it right but messing it up so they did become Undead but didn't completely become a Liche.

IDK what Lore of Death wizards are called (maybe Death Wizards?) but Necromancers know the Necromancy spells not Lore of Death spells and only Vampire Counts have Necromancers.

for balance but still useful I suggested Liches be limited to adventurers that upgraded that is a hero without being a Vampire and Lich doesn't get the feeding bounes Vampires get so they only get the hero bounes for exp.

there can be a few hero Vampires but they can never be a Lich because they are Vampire race. and non-hero Vampires can't be Liches for 2 reasons 1 because they are a Vampire and 2 because they are not a hero.

the progresion of dificulty to get should be:

1: Hedge wizard with Coven
2: Necromancer with Hedge Wizard and education
3: Master Necromancer with Necromancer and Arcane Lore
3: Lich with Necromancy III and Hero, only by spell, can't be cast by a Vampire
3: Vampire with Arcane Lore and Necromancy and Lordship OR tyranny
4: Vampire count with Vampire and Feudalism
5: Vampire Lord with Vampire Count and IDK

can take out Vampire Count and put Lord in it's spot and remove Master Necromancer and make Lichdom Necro II and Hero and Arcane Lore, only by spell, can't be cast by Vampires

let me put that down because it does sound like allot of units and 7th edition doesn't have Master Necromancers or Vampire Counts (only Vampires and Vampire Lords):

1: Hedge wizard with Coven
2: Necromancer with Hedge Wizard and education
3: Lich with Necromancy II and Hero and Arcane Lore, only by spell, can't be cast by a Vampire
3: Vampire with Arcane Lore and Necromancy and Lordship OR tyranny
4: Vampire Lord with Vampire and Feudalism (maybe make this one harder)

 

[Ahriman]

Vampires can't turn into Liches and Mannfred Von Carstein is a Vampire.

He's a hero. What heroes exactly are there that you think will be turning themselves into liches?? Each faction will only have a couple of heroes.

I fail to see what design purpose there is from needing to give the vampire counts civs both vampires AND necromancers. Easier to just combine them.

 

[Darkform]

He's a hero. What heroes exactly are there that you think will be turning themselves into liches?? Each faction will only have a couple of heroes.

I fail to see what design purpose there is from needing to give the vampire counts civs both vampires AND necromancers. Easier to just combine them.

the HERO promoted ADVENTURER witch I hear can be got in a event possibly could upgrade to Necro then Lich. having Hero but not Vampire. and it probably would be so rare that you probably don't even have to cap the number of Liches they can make.