Smoother Difficulty 1.4

Atlas627 · Jan 1, 2017

White Out said:
Love this mod and use it as if its a necessary update.

Question though, would you consider making another mod that has very gradual increases starting at settler? So for instance settler would be vanilla, no bonuses, and what you have as prince now would be say, warlord?

Second question, how does era scaling work? So ignoring Deity and Immortal... I understand how the bonuses to gold and culture work... how do the era scaling work?

Third question.. and sorry for this becoming a bit of an inquisition lol... is it possible to scale back the monetary bonuses period? Like say if all I wanted to do with this mod was to give the AI a bonus to culture and research and perhaps a little production, is that moddable?

Thanks in advance for any insights and more importantly for a great mod

All doable and easily editable yourself. The formatting of the code is very straightforward and well-commented. Just go into the xml and sql files and swap the numbers you want to swap. At worst, if you screw it up, you can just redownload the mod (or make a backup copy).

White Out · Jan 1, 2017

Atlas627 said:
All doable and easily editable yourself. The formatting of the code is very straightforward and well-commented. Just go into the xml and sql files and swap the numbers you want to swap. At worst, if you screw it up, you can just redownload the mod (or make a backup copy).

Ya I don't quite get it though.

So, lets take Prince as an example. Right now the modifier is 8, this mod makes it 12.




That 2nd line, I don't know how it's achieving those numbers. Prince 12 sure, but 24 king and 36 Emperor... no clue. Those numbers dont even exist in the XML outside that line

White Out · Jan 1, 2017

Unless it literally is adding 12 each time?

Spoiler :

Is that right?

RushSecond · Jan 2, 2017

White Out said:
Question though, would you consider making another mod that has very gradual increases starting at settler? So for instance settler would be vanilla, no bonuses, and what you have as prince now would be say, warlord?

That's a good idea. Two problems could be solved by that; one, I could make Deity harder for those who think its too easy, and I could make King through Immortal manageable steps up to it for those who think the current Immortal too easy but Deity too hard. Something like...

[table="head"]Difficulty in new mod | Current difficulty
Settler | no bonuses for anyone
Chieftain | as hard as current Prince
Warlord | as hard as current King
Prince | as hard as current Emperor
King | as hard as current Immortal
Emperor | between current Immortal and Deity
Immortal | as hard as current Deity
Deity | harder than current Deity
[/table]
I'm not sure what I would call this, or if I should even make it a new mod or just make that the new Smoother Difficulty 1.4. If you are currently playing on a difficulty less than Prince, then Smoother Difficulty doesn't do anything for you anyway...

Second question, how does era scaling work? So ignoring Deity and Immortal... I understand how the bonuses to gold and culture work... how do the era scaling work?

Well say you are playing on Emperor, look at the table in my first post here. In the Ancient era, all AI civs get 36% more science and culture, whereas without this mod they would have gotten +24%. As soon as anyone in the game reaches the Classical era, all AI civs will increase this bonus to 39%. Then when anyone gets Medieval era, they are increased again to 42%, and will increase by 3% every era after, until the Information era when it caps at +57% science and culture. This was a great suggestion by Atlas627 and it further helps the AI keep up throughout the game.

Third question.. and sorry for this becoming a bit of an inquisition lol... is it possible to scale back the monetary bonuses period? Like say if all I wanted to do with this mod was to give the AI a bonus to culture and research and perhaps a little production, is that moddable?

Well I didn't actually mess with production or gold either, it's still at their vanilla settings of +20% for Prince, +40% for King, etc up to +100% for Deity. Look here:

Code:

        <!-- Current production/gold boost: 0,0,0,20,40,60,80,100 -->
        <!-- can't change! turns out boosts over +100% doesn't do anything :(
        <Update>
            <Where ModifierId="HIGH_DIFFICULTY_PRODUCTION_SCALING" Name="Amount"/>
            <Set Extra="24"/>
        </Update>
        <Update>
            <Where ModifierId="HIGH_DIFFICULTY_GOLD_SCALING" Name="Amount"/>
            <Set Extra="24"/>
        </Update>-->
 
    </ModifierArguments>

Note that this xml code doesn't actually do anything because everything is surrounded by  comment syntax. It's ignored by the game when loaded. However you can add upate blocks after the --> bit that reduces the gold to 0, and and lowers the production from 20 to 10.

Code:

        <!-- Current production/gold boost: 0,0,0,20,40,60,80,100 -->
        <!-- can't change! turns out boosts over +100% doesn't do anything :(
        <Update>
            <Where ModifierId="HIGH_DIFFICULTY_PRODUCTION_SCALING" Name="Amount"/>
            <Set Extra="24"/>
        </Update>
        <Update>
            <Where ModifierId="HIGH_DIFFICULTY_GOLD_SCALING" Name="Amount"/>
            <Set Extra="24"/>
        </Update>-->

        <!-- New thing for White Out! Removes the extra gold from AI and lowers the production-->
        <Update>
            <Where ModifierId="HIGH_DIFFICULTY_GOLD_SCALING" Name="Amount"/>
            <Set Extra="0"/>
        </Update>
        <Update>
            <Where ModifierId="HIGH_DIFFICULTY_PRODUCTION_SCALING" Name="Amount"/>
            <Set Extra="10"/>
        </Update>

    </ModifierArguments>

verifiedhuman · Jan 2, 2017

Hi Rush, I like the way your mod adds bonuses to the AI per era. I really feel like that helps the AI keep up, but I would like to extend the same functionality to the combat difficulty. I can't make the combat bonus too much higher or the AI can just obliterate my city in one or two turns with a couple warriors at the beginning. But later on when I get walls, ranged units, airplanes and roads the combat bonus barely seems noticeable. How can I add the per era requirements into the combat files so I can start playing around with different settings?

Edit: I suppose the ability to change city states combat effectiveness might be good too. I tried code like this (sorry for the spam don't know how to do spoilers). This worked when I applied it to myself, but I didn't use the ai requirements and I'm not sure if I implemented them correctly. I've never used XML until I started doing this two days ago

<Modifiers>
<Row>
<ModifierId>TRAIT_COMBAT_PENALTY_CITY_STATES</ModifierId>
<ModifierType>MODIFIER_PLAYER_UNITS_ATTACH_MODIFIER</ModifierType>
<OwnerRequirementSetId>DEITY_DIFFICULTY</OwnerRequirementSetId>
</Row>
<Row>
<ModifierId>COMBAT_PENALTY_VS_CITY_STATES_MODIFIER</ModifierId>
<ModifierType>MODIFIER_UNIT_ADJUST_COMBAT_STRENGTH</ModifierType>
<SubjectRequirementSetId>REQUIREMENTS_OPPONENT_IS_MINOR_CIV</SubjectRequirementSetId>
</Row>
</Modifiers>
<ModifierArguments>
<Row>
<ModifierId>TRAIT_COMBAT_PENALTY_CITY_STATES</ModifierId>
<Name>ModifierId</Name>
<Value>COMBAT_PENALTY_VS_CITY_STATES_MODIFIER</Value>
</Row>
<Row>
<ModifierId>COMBAT_PENALTY_VS_CITY_STATES_MODIFIER</ModifierId>
<Name>Amount</Name>
<Value>-6</Value>
</Row>
</ModifierArguments>

White Out · Jan 2, 2017

Rush that's exactly what I had in mind. That table provides a much better, cleaner, scaling difficulty.

clack · Jan 3, 2017

RushSecond said:
That's a good idea. Two problems could be solved by that; one, I could make Deity harder for those who think its too easy, and I could make King through Immortal manageable steps up to it for those who think the current Immortal too easy but Deity too hard. Something like...

Hey. It would be a great idea for a new version of the mod. The patch for the game in the near future is not expected, so do not give up this idea.
This alone can save AI.
At what time waiting for your job?

And it would be nice to make a big bonus to science and culture. But production is not touched. And the AI is too fast builds wonders and units.

Fimbulvetr · Jan 5, 2017

How did you know that there was a RequirementType 'REQUIREMENT_GAME_ERA_ATLEAST' with argument MinGameEra ? I didn't know this even existed until I looked at your mod.

Morgawr · Jan 5, 2017

Would you consider giving the AI an amenity bonus that scales w/ difficulty & eras? It is a widely accepted issue that the AI goes on negative amenity later in the game and tends get overrun by rebel barbarians. It could be either flat extra amenities like +1, +2, etc, or you could apply the same "Science & Culture Bonus" % multipliers to amenities as well?

Ashreon · Jan 7, 2017

oedali said:
Would you consider giving the AI an amenity bonus that scales w/ difficulty & eras? It is a widely accepted issue that the AI goes on negative amenity later in the game and tends get overrun by rebel barbarians. It could be either flat extra amenities like +1, +2, etc, or you could apply the same "Science & Culture Bonus" % multipliers to amenities as well?

It needs more amenity! Not that I use this mod, but I would totally use it and out comment everything but the Amenity bonus xD.. It is... That necessary!

I've run 3 games on autoplay with AI+ and 8 Paces of Time.. All with the same result - the AI don't build entertainment districts and as such they can't keep their amenity up which results in rebels, no income and a civilization that's most of the time burning from barbarian pillage. I have even considered if it's already in-game but just not used so might just fiddle with the mod and see if it can be added.

RushSecond · Jan 22, 2017

Okay. So I've finally had some time to think about Civ VI again and came up with this idea for the next version of smoother difficulty. With the idea to add amenities and MyopicCat's idea of giving the player penalties as a way of getting around the +100% limit, I think it's possible to finally get rid of the extra settler while keeping the game hard. I also want to actually "smooth" the jumps between difficulties by adding new ones. Demi-god is the difficulty between Immortal and Deity, to help bridge the large gap between those two, and Omniscient is the difficulty level above Deity for true masters of the game. These are the specifics I came up with:
[table="head"]
Value | Warlord or Less | Prince | King | Emporer | Immortal | Demi-god | Deity | Omniscient
Base Science & Culture Bonus | 0% | 12% | 24% | 36% | 48% | 60% | 72% | 84%
Per Era Science & Culture Bonus | 0% | 1% | 2% | 3% | 4% | 5% | 6% | 7%
Gold and Production Bonus | 0% | 20% | 40% | 60% | 80% | 100% | 100% | 100 %
Combat Bonus | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 (+1 over time) | 4 (+2 over time) | 5 (+3 over time) | 7 (+3 over time)
Bonus vs Barbarians | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
Bonus Amenities Over Time | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
Extra Military Units | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3
Extra Settlers | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
Extra Builders | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0
Player Production Penalty | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10% | 25%
[/table]

In particular, looking at Deity, I would like to hear some thoughts on how that looks compared to vanilla Deity. This new version would:

+ Increase science & culture from +40% to +72% at the start, and increase by 6% more each era, capping at +100% each at Modern era
+ Add 1 more combat strength to all units at the start, and increase +1 more at Medieval, Industrial, and Atomic eras for a total of +4
+ Add +5 additional combat strength vs barbarians
+ Grant amenities to every AI city over time, staring at +1 at Medieval, increasing to +4 at Modern
+ The player has -10% production towards everything
- However, the AI starts with 3 warriors instead of 5
- 1 settler instead of 3
- and no extra builders, instead of getting a free builder with each of its first 2 cities

Any thoughts? Does this sound reasonable, or do you think this new Deity would be too much harder/easier than vanilla Deity?

White Out · Jan 22, 2017

looks great

Morgawr · Jan 22, 2017

Absolutely love it. Please implement asap! Love amenities, and have been craving for a diff between immortal and Deity.

[to_xp]Gekko · Jan 22, 2017

looking good, but I'd rather add Noble and Monarch from civ4 instead of demigod and omniscient

I'd also recommend to add something from Milder Agendas & Relations mod:

Code:

-- Make first impression neutral for all difficulties (default: -1/level). See Leaders.xml, line 2971
UPDATE ModifierArguments SET Extra=0 WHERE ModifierID='STANDARD_DIPLOMACY_RANDOM' AND Name='DifficultyOffset';

"Makes the AI's first impression of you neutral on average for all difficulties, with slight random variability. By default the AI is significantly more negative of you the higher the difficulty, which can easily snowball into diplomatic breakdown that lasts the entire game."

MyopicCat · Jan 22, 2017

RushSecond said:
With the idea to add amenities and MyopicCat's idea of giving the player penalties as a way of getting around the +100% limit, I think it's possible to finally get rid of the extra settler while keeping the game hard. I also want to actually "smooth" the jumps between difficulties by adding new ones. Demi-god is the difficulty between Immortal and Deity, to help bridge the large gap between those two, and Omniscient is the difficulty level above Deity for true masters of the game.

I don't mind you using my idea of giving the player penalties to smooth out difficulty levels in your mod even more. But having difficulty levels higher than Deity is pretty much the only selling point of my Deity++ mod, so I would prefer if you refer those (very few) users who want a superdifficulty to my mod instead.

[to_xp]Gekko said:
I'd also recommend to add something from Milder Agendas & Relations mod:

Really? My other mods too?

[to_xp]Gekko · Jan 22, 2017

I'm suggesting to add a feature from a mod you made, it's a compliment

it's only natural that mods incorporate features from other mods, this means you did a good job and your ideas are propagating

MyopicCat · Jan 22, 2017

[to_xp]Gekko said:
I'm suggesting to add a feature from a mod you made, it's a compliment

it's only natural that mods incorporate features from other mods, this means you did a good job and your ideas are propagating

I understood the sentiment, thanks.

But when mods with 12000+ downloads implement key features from mods with 100-200 downloads, it usually doesn't end well for the smaller mod.

[to_xp]Gekko · Jan 22, 2017

well, the problem is that a lot of people want a better scaling difficulty, but apparently a lot less people want agendas to have a lesser effect on the diplomacy

you could try making a mod that only makes that one change, but at that point what's the difference? people would have to search for and download two mods instead of one, so less people would be able to enjoy your tweak

of course basic modding etiquette would dictate that if your change gets implemented into another mod, your screenname gets added to the credit

RushSecond · Jan 22, 2017

[to_xp]Gekko said:
looking good, but I'd rather add Noble and Monarch from civ4 instead of demigod and omniscient

I'd also recommend to add something from Milder Agendas & Relations mod:

Code:

-- Make first impression neutral for all difficulties (default: -1/level). See Leaders.xml, line 2971 UPDATE ModifierArguments SET Extra=0 WHERE ModifierID='STANDARD_DIPLOMACY_RANDOM' AND Name='DifficultyOffset';

"Makes the AI's first impression of you neutral on average for all difficulties, with slight random variability. By default the AI is significantly more negative of you the higher the difficulty, which can easily snowball into diplomatic breakdown that lasts the entire game."

Here's why I chose the names I did. I want the vanilla difficulty levels to be roughly equivalent to the modded difficulty levels. So someone who has been playing on Deity can choose Deity in this mod and do just as well. I don't want to shift things around and have modded Immortal be as hard as vanilla Deity. So when adding new difficulties I literally want to fit them in between Immortal and Deity, and one after Deity. Demi-god and Omniscient are much closer to keeping the theme of those names.

As for that other thing, I think the current first impressions on higher difficulties is fine. It keeps you from abusing alliances to get a free pass in the early game. If you want that functionality, you can just use Milder Agendas & Relations alongside this mod.

MyopicCat said:
I don't mind you using my idea of giving the player penalties to smooth out difficulty levels in your mod even more. But having difficulty levels higher than Deity is pretty much the only selling point of my Deity++ mod, so I would prefer if you refer those (very few) users who want a superdifficulty to my mod instead.

Well I'm not trying to "outsell" anyone (we aren't making money from this anyway!), I'm just trying to make Smoother Difficulty as good as it can be. If someone really likes the functionality of difficulty scaling over the course of the game AND wants a difficulty harder than Deity, right now they are SOL since neither of our mods have both of those features, and you can't use both mods together since one would overwrite the other and break a lot of things. I want to do this because one of those SOL guys is me; I personally want to try a harder than Deity game with some era-scaling stuff. Sure I could just make a compatibility fix between your mod and mine, but doing that and not publishing it would just make the Civ community poorer than it could have been.

PYITE · Jan 23, 2017

I like the additions/changes. I like how your mod was made so it was easy to edit; if you wanted Deity to not have an extra settler you put in that note about deleting the next line. If you are going to remove extra settler from Deity could you please write in how to add one for the AI. I like to have options. Thanks for efforts on this great mod.

Smoother Difficulty 1.4

Deity

Prince

Prince

Chieftain

Chieftain

Prince

Chieftain

Emperor

Civ Fanatic

Chieftain

Chieftain

Prince

Civ Fanatic

QCT junkie

Chieftain

QCT junkie

Chieftain

QCT junkie

Chieftain

Prince

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