snofru space map (large) epic, nightmare difficulty

[tramwajg]

SVN 11390, map from here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/snofrus-space-maps.639529/page-11#post-16190965

18 AI, barbarian world, neanderthal cities, start without positive traits, complex traits, developing leaders

https://i.imgur.com/8arZ0vZ.png
bc 200 000: at first sight, it will be hard, seems that there is not much space for development and it may be required to play tall rather than wide (possibly not much land on map), I like exploring new map for the first time and deciding how to develop economy and which strategy will be good. Trying to find hill plot with river (most important), 2nd priority caves, 3rd priority natural wonder, for initial exploring I split stone thrower and search tribal villages, spending ~10 turns to find best possible location

that was short but if I already created topic, I will see what I am able to do in such situation
https://i.imgur.com/TuMWd0Y.png

turn 4 (bc 197 000) https://i.imgur.com/PYkKToz.png
first tech language and oral tradition (some science), then stone workshop, then sea related techs as soon as possible, planning new cities in areas marked in red

turn 83 (bc 157 000) https://i.imgur.com/gvCi9k4.png
building up production in city, every tile is valuable in this case, I got seasonal camp improvement, going for techs increasing science output from stone tools workshop

turn 93 (bc 152 000) https://i.imgur.com/a7LNUaG.png
source of llama discovered, valuable addition in this case

turn 170 (bc 112 000) https://i.imgur.com/RoJvs3L.png
let's see if I can build landscape wonder from skinning tech earlier than others
turn 172: discovered source of elephants
turn 203 (bc 96 000) https://i.imgur.com/uEG7vGW.png
bark huts seem to be the only shelter that can be constructed using available resources

turn 209 (bc 93 000) https://i.imgur.com/WCnC5At.png
finished wonder that gives hides, one more option for shelter and nice +5 production

turn 221 (bc 86 000) https://i.imgur.com/MSz5dAE.png
constructing all folklores led to 100 education, quite nice boost at this point, unfortunately in this game no lascaux paints which I like

turn 261 (bc 66 000) https://i.imgur.com/QHsfkwh.png
first unit that might be able to kill strong animals, but I rather wait until axe making

turn 321 (bc 46 000) https://i.imgur.com/t1zbzcc.png
I don't know how much land is on this map and how many cities it will be possible to make, first trait selection efficient I is universal, good both for starting economy (commerce bonus, slaves) and for late (number of trade routes), scientific I would be best at this point but worse later, organized I would be best for reducing maintenance costs but I don't know how much land is nearby to settle, might be only these small visible islands. I now realised it would have been worse if there were oceans everywhere around

turn 341 (bc 43 000) https://i.imgur.com/5RdDFYx.png
left starting island, explored in some directions and only upper seem to be larger land, neanderthals military is quite strong and seems it's better to wait until stone axemen, starting unit got leadership promotion from event, would be bad to loose it

turn 348 (bc 42 000) https://i.imgur.com/Xek5NKw.png
turns out this unit is very strong even before upgrading, I wait until great general so it doesn't loose exp

turn 367 (bc 40 000) https://i.imgur.com/aKPGbx3.png
got neanderthal captive, can be upgraded to tracker, good for finding animals and with proper promotions also against barbarians

turn 384 (bc 38 000) https://i.imgur.com/f5mfBwu.png
seems that this land will be the only available for expansion at least until seafaring, unit after upgrading to stone axeman should be able to capture neanderthal city

turn 443 (bc 30 000) https://i.imgur.com/BFWE8Tm.png
my slowest game tech-wise, 30 000 bc and no tribalism yet, main unit after great general promotion and quality upgrade should be able to beat most opponents

turn 512 (bc 21 000) https://i.imgur.com/DTmVfXM.png
tribalism done, next techs that I will research, are these related to gold, to support maintenance of 8 cities as soon as possible (I think it's max number that can be placed on available area before seafaring)

turn 686 (bc 9900) https://i.imgur.com/vlZePPh.png
my first c2c game ever without first to discover sedentary lifestyle




-------------------------- ancient
turn 736 (bc 8800) https://i.imgur.com/fuWhlla.png
sedentary lifestyle done, I was so slow

turn 774 (bc 8091) https://i.imgur.com/P1lZemK.png
the only possibillity of getting fresh water otherwise can't until aqueduct in classical era. then can't get clay, can't construct potter's hut or granary

turn 786 (bc 7842) https://i.imgur.com/1NZfHxC.png
seems that it's possible to enter ocean tiles within own borders, after researching sailing or seafaring it might be possible to explore deep sea tiles, although it's not possible to enter ocean in AI borders. Maybe culture radius could reach deep sea tiles and then could be possible to move to coast from there, but currently several hundreds of turns left

turn 799 (bc 7572) https://i.imgur.com/SOnVRaR.png
seems that fresh water from great bath does not allow to create clay pit? or I am missing it

turn 845 (bc 6618) https://i.imgur.com/6rWcnDq.png
building "ancient customs" is awesome for early economy, I had supply merchants stored to have it built immediately when available, maintenance costs are very high

turn 1153 (bc 999) https://i.imgur.com/8oz8zlC.png
finally researched seafaring, going to war with multiple merged units

turn 1155 (bc 990) https://i.imgur.com/ckBdTMm.png
seems it won't be hard

turn 1184 (bc 865) https://i.imgur.com/iHp5wqt.png
after capturing 2 cities need break to heal units, never played with rams earlier, usually enemies didn't have walls when I was in ancient era

turn 1237 (bc 636) https://i.imgur.com/TWnbvJW.jpg
it was mistake to try defeating Babylon before finishing Byzantium, siege is very lenghty and dozens of enforcers in AI cities is not bad strategy to make war last very long, needed more rams and low quality units and after 50 turns still not captured although anyway maintenance would be too high to sustain economy with whole new island. Game was suboptimal for long time, I didn't realise that moving capital to island with biggest number of cities at particular time, reduces maintenance for colonial expenses, it was about 200 gold per turn. constructed wonder "petra" for trade routes, one of captured cities was mesopotamism holy city, best possible option due to hammurabi law which give free courthouses

turn 1273 (bc 480) https://i.imgur.com/IgMZcg4.png
Babylon captured, I am bad in playing with rams waiting for siege machines with ranged bombarding

turn 1324 (bc 260) https://i.imgur.com/JSwDjKK.png
Byzantine defeated, funny that in my previous game I was in industrial era in this year, now finishing ancient era



-------------------------- classical

turn 1350 (bc 148) https://i.imgur.com/plsMcsB.png
first to research classical lifestyle, but not by much, it is funny comparing my civilization state in this game with other game on continents map (which was nightmare too), middle of industrial era instead of classical start https://i.imgur.com/UZBvAR1.jpg

continuing game next day, moved capital to largest island which will have many cities on it, started from alphabet as free tech (+2 trade routes from open borders) but it was mistake, most of coastal cities already had routes to all other cities I currently have

turn 1351 https://i.imgur.com/NDNFtRS.png
getting magic tech for more gold from magic shop, next ancient machinery, I will create catapult triple merged and led by great general, need city with stones to build hammurabi law (free courthouse in every city, maintenance and crime reduction)

some cities have maintenance from colonial expenses about 10, and some over 100, I don't know on what it depends, might be distance from palace

turn 1403 (ad 82) https://i.imgur.com/u1Klmxy.png
magic shops were good addition to economy (over 10 gold per one), after ancient machinery and iron working I went for literature (need science and education) then law enforcement and ancient medicine (need reductions to crime and disease, in tall build properties values are horrible as cities grew much higher than technology level)

turn 1453 (ad 298) https://i.imgur.com/hQOyam4.png
trying to capture France due to closest to palace, I like size matters and these multiply merged unit, 27 catapults merged into one is almost safe to be sent alone, 40% bombardment damage in one turn

 

[Snofru1]

That's a really difficult start but of course this can happen on an Archipelago map. You might be able to expand anyway if you research and invest in boat building you will have quite some problems as long as you can't trade with cities on the other islands (I am not sure which technology you need for it but it will take a while). And maintenance for these cities will also be very high.

 

[tramwajg]

That's a really difficult start but of course this can happen on an Archipelago map. You might be able to expand anyway if you research and invest in boat building you will have quite some problems as long as you can't trade with cities on the other islands (I am not sure which technology you need for it but it will take a while). And maintenance for these cities will also be very high.

hey, thanks for advice never before have I seen maintenance so high, 500 gold from 7 cities https://i.imgur.com/60nYlf9.png

 

[Snofru1]

Wow, that's really a lot of maintenance. But you are playing nightmare !

These meager 3 islands are all you can get to? That game is a challenge indeed!

Added later: I've just seen that you updated the 1st post and my question is already answered.

 

[tramwajg]

difficulty level affects maintenance? didn't know that;p

yes, these 3 islands were everything available until seafaring, after then it was possible to explore deep sea tiles which were next to cultural borders reaching ocean tiles, these seems to expand up to 3 tiles from coast. In addition I didn't realise it would reduce maintenance to move capital to island with highest number of cities, was about 200 gold difference, and would speed up game, it was just clicking space and doing nothing for 1000 turns after seafaring there are many nearby islands to conquer although can't do it too fast or maintenance will destroy research

 

[Snofru1]

I am not really sure that difficulty affects maintenance, just a thought.

An Archipelago map really seems to slow down development for the player but maybe even more so for the AI who is more optimized for larger continents (I think). An interesting game, though!

 

[raxo2222]

It very strongly influences player maintenance
So on Nightmare players will have 2.4x higher maintenance than AI.

 

[Snofru1]

I really am surprised how quickly you can expand and be the strongest civ in nightmare. Good job!

Btw.: Maybe it would be better to start a new post once in a while and not only update the initial post. Then the forum reader can see that there is something new in the thread.

 

[tramwajg]

thanks! nice to see that it wasn't that bad then, and funny that it's my slowest game ever if we look at economy stats in certain years I will make new post then, when I continue game on this map, playing on continents v7 now