So anyway, place your bets: when will civ7 arrive?

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It seems to me that's just one more reason not to like them.

Yes. Though back on topic considering it's primarily the Civilization series that makes Firaxis money, it would be completely crazy if they were to stop it.
One could consider the Leader's Pass "milking" out content, but I can't complain if it's a product I like.

 

[Zaarin]

One could consider the Leader's Pass "milking" out content, but I can't complain if it's a product I like.

NFP felt like milking. LP feels less like milking because it's free to people who already own the game's other content. Like I said, I think they're just trying to build some good will in advance of Civ7.

 

[queenpea]

NFP felt like milking. LP feels less like milking because it's free to people who already own the game's other content. Like I said, I think they're just trying to build some good will in advance of Civ7.

Someone (I forget who) suggested that LP was perhaps an exercise in training new devs on leader and character design.

Considering the mixed bag so far (for example: Sundiata design strong, while Ramses: amateur), I don't think this is an absolutely bonkers theory.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

NFP felt like milking. LP feels less like milking because it's free to people who already own the game's other content. Like I said, I think they're just trying to build some good will in advance of Civ7.

If most of the missing civs hadn't been recurring staples, I would probably agree more. But well a civ game without Babylon isn't really a civ game, and I'm not counting Civ Rev.

 

[Leucarum]

Designing alt leaders is tough, particularly for the more synergistic civs - part of why I think Keita's design is really good is that it plays into existing synergies quite deeply. So I'm inclined to cut the devs a bit of slack on the ability design front...

But I doubt firaxis is making a huge amount of money from this, and they aren't pouring a giant amount of resources either... So I think building hype is a good argument for why they are doing it?

 

[pokiehl]

Someone (I forget who) suggested that LP was perhaps an exercise in training new devs on leader and character design.

Considering the mixed bag so far (for example: Sundiata design strong, while Ramses: amateur), I don't think this is an absolutely bonkers theory.

Another poster who works in software development chimed in and said that training new staff on a deprecated product doesn't make sense. I'm inclined to agree with that take.

At any rate, I don't think the lack of polish or decline in quality is a reflection on the skill of the team. I think it's moreso a reflection that they have been allocated limited time and resources to do this, and they're simply making the best of it.

So I think building hype is a good argument for why they are doing it?

I'm not really sure how content for Civ 6 builds hype for Civ 7. I can't think of any other game series that has promoted a new entry by developing an older one.

 

[Zaarin]

Someone (I forget who) suggested that LP was perhaps an exercise in training new devs on leader and character design.

Considering the mixed bag so far (for example: Sundiata design strong, while Ramses: amateur), I don't think this is an absolutely bonkers theory.

Someone else also posted the reasonable rebuttal that training devs on old tech is counterproductive, and the leads on this project have been with Firaxis for a long time. I don't think this is chiefly a training project, just something to occupy some devs who aren't needed on Civ7 at the moment.

If most of the missing civs hadn't been recurring staples, I would probably agree more. But well a civ game without Babylon isn't really a civ game, and I'm not counting Civ Rev.

TBH that every single civ was either a staple or a highly requested new civ, that just made it feel more liking milking to me. Even from the beginning I was laughing at the people who thought we were going to get outlandish surprises in NFP--all three new civs, Gran Colombia, Gaul, Vietnam, were frequently requested.

 

[queenpea]

Designing alt leaders is tough, particularly for the more synergistic civs - part of why I think Keita's design is really good is that it plays into existing synergies quite deeply. So I'm inclined to cut the devs a bit of slack on the ability design front...

But I doubt firaxis is making a huge amount of money from this, and they aren't pouring a giant amount of resources either... So I think building hype is a good argument for why they are doing it?

Not sure if this was a response to my post, but I am reading it as one.

When it comes to Sundiata vs. Ramses, I am specifically talking about the character design (costume, animation, colors, textures, etc.) Not the abilities. The appearance of the character. To me, the two characters look like they were designed by completely different teams (with differing skill levels).

 

[Zaarin]

When it comes to Sundiata vs. Ramses, I am specifically talking about the character design (costume, animation, colors, textures, etc.) Not the abilities. The appearance of the character. To me, the two characters look like they were designed by completely different teams (with differing skill levels).

This is something I think Civ7 really needs to address: I like most of Civ6's leader designs, but they do not follow a coherent art direction. Poundmaker and Wilhelmina both look great but look like they belong in different games. I'd like to see Civ7 have a stronger art direction. In general, Civ6 feels like it needed stronger leadership overall.

 

[queenpea]

Someone else also posted the reasonable rebuttal that training devs on old tech is counterproductive, and the leads on this project have been with Firaxis for a long time. I don't think this is chiefly a training project, just something to occupy some devs who aren't needed on Civ7 at the moment.


TBH that every single civ was either a staple or a highly requested new civ, that just made it feel more liking milking to me. Even from the beginning I was laughing at the people who thought we were going to get outlandish surprises in NFP--all three new civs, Gran Colombia, Gaul, Vietnam, were frequently requested.

Oh, clearly I don't think they are being trained for the TECH.

I think they are being introduced to the process of design a civilization with leaders possessing unique abilities, synergy, how the fan base reacts, what are expectations, how does this perform, etc...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Designing alt leaders is tough, particularly for the more synergistic civs - part of why I think Keita's design is really good is that it plays into existing synergies quite deeply. So I'm inclined to cut the devs a bit of slack on the ability design front...

But I doubt firaxis is making a huge amount of money from this, and they aren't pouring a giant amount of resources either... So I think building hype is a good argument for why they are doing it?

I'm torn on this because while agree with you on Keita, slapping on a "Greek dress" for Cleopatra and making her persona another have another "breadbasket of Rome" ability feels like a waste of potential. I'd much rather take a militaristic persona of Ramses with combat bonuses towards heavy cavalry and their UU.

 

[Leucarum]

I'm not really sure how content for Civ 6 builds hype for Civ 7. I can't think of any other game series that has promoted a new entry by developing an older one.

It's getting people talking about Civ, where interest seemed to have dropped off. And the civ series is more iterative than transformative between games so I dunno if it's too far of a stretch.

Not sure if this was a response to my post, but I am reading it as one.

Sorry, yeah I wasn't really thinking of the leader models.

I'm torn on this because while agree with you on Keita, slapping on a "Greek dress" for Cleopatra and making her persona another have another "breadbasket of Rome" ability feels like a waste of potential. I'd much rather take a militaristic persona of Ramses with combat bonuses towards heavy cavalry and their UU.

Cleopatra is definitely the least interesting of the three for me. There was a lot more potential there...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Oh, clearly I don't think they are being trained for the TECH.

I think they are being introduced to the process of design a civilization with leaders possessing unique abilities, synergy, how the fan base reacts, what are expectations, how does this perform, etc...

I would suggest they are also training up support staff, like community managers and marketeers. That the marketing is fairly different than we saw in practice for the past 7 years indicates they are experimenting with a new model.

Also, this could be a practice run for newly promoted devs, like Carl, to get a feel for project management.

 

[queenpea]

I would suggest they are also training up support staff, like community managers and marketeers. That the marketing is fairly different than we saw in practice for the past 7 years indicates they are experimenting with a new model.

Also, this could be a practice run for newly promoted devs, like Carl, to get a feel for project management.

Yes, exactly -- it might explain why the timing of each drop has been slightly different than the last.

 

[Zaarin]

That the marketing is fairly different than we saw in practice for the past 7 years indicates they are experimenting with a new model.

I hope they're hearing the negative feedback for that new model.

 

[queenpea]

I hope they're hearing the negative feedback for that new model.

I hope they promote the Sundiata team and...repurpose...the Ramses team...

 

[Nikolai II]

I hope they promote the Sundiata team and...repurpose...the Ramses team...

Heh, I doubt there are several teams on the leader pass.

 

[queenpea]

Heh, I doubt there are several teams on the leader pass.

Well, please try to convince me that Sundiata and Ramses were designed by the same individual.

 

[Nikolai II]

Well, please try to convince me that Sundiata and Ramses were designed by the same individual.

Team, not person. A team is per definition several people.

 

[queenpea]

Team, not person. A team is per definition several people.

I mean, we can talk in circles about this. I don't think the same person who does the textures does the animation, but we are all just guessing at this point, and it is silly to cling to one word.

"Team" is used loosely.