So how does Dido's capital thing work?

[iammaxhailme]

When you transfer the capital, does the palace go? Does it change the yields of the cities? If you aren't losing domination, and you aren't suffering loyalty problems, is there a point?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

It moves the "original capital", which means that all the city-state bonuses, the palace, and its contents all move.

It's not super strategic except you can use it to exploit Casa and the Colonial policy cards to a greater degree.

 

[Halcyan2]

Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort. But there are a few other situations where it might be helpful.

There are several policies that are keyed to giving bonuses to cities not on the same continent as your capital. If most of your cities are on the same continent, it might make sense to move your capital to a new capital so that all your cities benefit from those bonuses.

There are also some theories about how the AI only does espionage or plans to attack you if they have scouted out your capital. Not sure if it's true but if it is, you might be able to move your capital to a location that hasn't been discovered by the AI.

Prior to GS (don't know if they fixed it), if a city with a great work was taken, the great work was lost/destroyed. That was true with great works in the Palace. Dido could spirit away your great work by moving the capital.

 

[IvoryPavane]

It works well with a little planning, but it’s only something you will want to do once, maybe twice.

In my last multiplayer game, I actually got to do it twice. The moment I could embark settlers, I sent one off to my friends contintent (he was just over the water luckily) and set my first contintent, while I was building Gov plaza and audience chamber, I had that city work through the move capital project. Then I was spitting out settlers every 3 turns and able to quite quickly set up a fairly dominant presence on that map too.

Then I did my usual and scouted out a remote tundra contintent that no one was using and settled my final capital, hard bought the Cothon, lighthouse and shipyard and got the capital moved in 15 turns (ish). (Dido is a weathly lady so you can be a bit flush with your gold)

Big tip, build Casa after you settle your final capital as Casa locks in the capital when it’s built.

I had 21 cities at the end of that match (science win for me, yay), and 20 of them had 25% gold, 10% production, 15% growth, and a further 8 had 15% gold, faith and production.

It needs some planning, (and a fairly passive neighbour in the case of my last MP game lol), but the yields can be lucrative.

If you are being more conservative, just set up a ton of cities in your home contintent, fire off a settler somewhere else and make it your capital, and then enjoy 25% gold, 15% growth and 10% production in your main empire. (And thus while she has no specific trade bonuses, the 45% gold increase in her trading cities, and over the water trade routes makes her RICH).

Seriously, I cannot overemphasise how much money Dido makes. Big problem is you have to turn all of that into a meaningful win condition, so you need to plan ahead.

Hope that helps a bit!

 

[blackcatatonic]

I used it strategically in my (one and only, so far) Dido game to move my capital to lock down the loyalty of two small cities I'd just founded between a couple of AI. My home continent was to the north and covered in my cities so loyalty was fine there. There's lots of potential to do this if you play on Island Plates as there's never any shortage of coast to settle.

 

[Ziad]

Use it to build empires on new lands without fear of loyalty. It's remarkably useful in any era.

My favorite tactic is to quickly find as many continents as I can in the early game and settle cities across all of them, then expand on my home continent while switching my capital as need be. I destroy the occasional unfortunately placed city/city state to settle otherwise particularly amazing coastal spots.

I try to lock in my final capital before Casa is built. Unfortunately Casa does not update home continent after you switch.

I'm almost positive Casa/Colonial policies were something Dido was balanced around. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing, but it does make for some hilarious superpowered core cities with massive gold/production bonuses.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I have only had one game with them where there was seemingly no need to move a capital, but it seemed prohibitively expensive? Clearly my impression was wrong there though because people seem to be using it just fine.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I have only had one game with them where there was seemingly no need to move a capital, but it seemed prohibitively expensive? Clearly my impression was wrong there though because people seem to be using it just fine.

It *is* expensive, but I think that’s designed so that you don’t just hop about. With some planning and prep, you could usually get it moved in 15 turns or so, but that’s 15 turns you could have used on something else so the move needs to be worth it.

On average it does net me about an extra 400 GPT though, once your core cities are locked in

 

[Icicle]

In my first game as Dido I did it once, super late game to ensure the loyalty of some oil colonies on the arctic fringe of another nation. It was helpful for that. I thought I'd be hopping it around to expand and such but it was never needed and I always had other uses for my shields. I feel like it will come up less often than people are expecting unless there's a certain map that is better for it.

 

[IvoryPavane]

For loyalty, its uses are niche (but there) but for exploring colonial policy cards, she can (and should) look to do it every game

 

[Datian]

I still don't understand Phoenicia

I get that the moving capital is thematic, and a way to play with colonial policy cards and the casa ; the offensive loyalty play seems more complicated to use, but I see the point of it game wise.

However, I don't see the synergy with the Cothon (faster navy, as if you were to build many boats, faster settlers long after the need to quick build them ?), the extra trade routes (they don't get a bonus do they ?), and the very cosmetic bonuses, like the faster district building where you built the government plaza (it's one of you early cities, so it should not be hampered by the rising district cost), or the writing eureka.

It doesn't point to an obvious victory route.
Mali ? Domination and religious, ok.
Sweden ? Diplomatic and cultural, easy to see.
Canada ? Diplomatic and survival, alright.
But Phoenicia ? Scientific with the strong pseudo-colonial cities, maybe ? Domination through, err, navy and loyalty play ?

Did I miss the obvious ?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I still don't understand Phoenicia

I get that the moving capital is thematic, and a way to play with colonial policy cards and the casa ; the offensive loyalty play seems more complicated to use, but I see the point of it game wise.

However, I don't see the synergy with the Cothon (faster navy, as if you were to build many boats, faster settlers long after the need to quick build them ?), the extra trade routes (they don't get a bonus do they ?), and the very cosmetic bonuses, like the faster district building where you built the government plaza (it's one of you early cities, so it should not be hampered by the rising district cost), or the writing eureka.

It doesn't point to an obvious victory route.
Mali ? Domination and religious, ok.
Sweden ? Diplomatic and cultural, easy to see.
Canada ? Diplomatic and survival, alright.
But Phoenicia ? Scientific with the strong pseudo-colonial cities, maybe ? Domination through, err, navy and loyalty play ?

Did I miss the obvious ?

They want to quickly expand to coastal sites with resources, build Cothons, and have many trade routes.

It's not fully synergistic with the capital moving, but moving the capital can be circumstantially beneficial. Their wealth is their leverage for victory, much like Mali. With the right configuration, they can buy nearly anything.

 

[Jewman]

I still don't understand Phoenicia

I get that the moving capital is thematic, and a way to play with colonial policy cards and the casa ; the offensive loyalty play seems more complicated to use, but I see the point of it game wise.

However, I don't see the synergy with the Cothon (faster navy, as if you were to build many boats, faster settlers long after the need to quick build them ?), the extra trade routes (they don't get a bonus do they ?), and the very cosmetic bonuses, like the faster district building where you built the government plaza (it's one of you early cities, so it should not be hampered by the rising district cost), or the writing eureka.

It doesn't point to an obvious victory route.
Mali ? Domination and religious, ok.
Sweden ? Diplomatic and cultural, easy to see.
Canada ? Diplomatic and survival, alright.
But Phoenicia ? Scientific with the strong pseudo-colonial cities, maybe ? Domination through, err, navy and loyalty play ?

Did I miss the obvious ?

I know it doesn't reallly make sense until you play with them and all the pieces just work together somehow.

I didn't get to play around with moving my capital in my only dido game because I was steamrolling over everyone, might do another game just to check it out.

 

[Stringer1313]

Just to confirm:

- Casa locks in as soon as you build it.
- Policy cards based on capital location (i.e., increased yields for cities not in home continent) do NOT lock in to original capital, and effects will change depending on where you move it?
- (BONUS question): Does Victoria's attitude towards you change if you move your capital to her home continent (or away from it)? (I don't really care about the answer to this question since agendas barely affect anything)

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

- (BONUS question): Does Victoria's attitude towards you change if you move your capital to her home continent (or away from it)? (I don't really care about the answer to this question since agendas barely affect anything)

I thought her dislike was based on you having any cities on a continent where she doesn't have any cities, i.e. she dislikes other colonizers that get somewhere she doesn't. I could be wrong about that, though.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I thought her dislike was based on you having any cities on a continent where she doesn't have any cities, i.e. she dislikes other colonizers that get somewhere she doesn't. I could be wrong about that, though.

Correct. As long as you and she have cities on the same continent, you are in compliance.

 

[IvoryPavane]

I still don't understand Phoenicia

I get that the moving capital is thematic, and a way to play with colonial policy cards and the casa ; the offensive loyalty play seems more complicated to use, but I see the point of it game wise.

However, I don't see the synergy with the Cothon (faster navy, as if you were to build many boats, faster settlers long after the need to quick build them ?), the extra trade routes (they don't get a bonus do they ?), and the very cosmetic bonuses, like the faster district building where you built the government plaza (it's one of you early cities, so it should not be hampered by the rising district cost), or the writing eureka.

It doesn't point to an obvious victory route.
Mali ? Domination and religious, ok.
Sweden ? Diplomatic and cultural, easy to see.
Canada ? Diplomatic and survival, alright.
But Phoenicia ? Scientific with the strong pseudo-colonial cities, maybe ? Domination through, err, navy and loyalty play ?

Did I miss the obvious ?

As stated above, it’s best to play to see how it hangs together.

When the Cothon comes along, (and I tend to beeline to it a little if I’m honest), it’s nowhere near after the need to quick build settlers. The Cothon is definitely what hangs it all together though. Because it’s cheap to build, you can get one up and running in every city you build, and she can have a lot of cities.

Generally my capital can produce a settler every three turns, and that settler can go out and find a +4 Harbour spot. Then that city immediately gets a Cothon, then I hard buy the lighthouse and shipyard. So quickly that city has 8 gold, 8 production, a new trade route, some food and some housing. Then I’ll usually build a quadreime and an archer for some defence, and after that whatever buildings my win condition asks for (often science).

She doesn’t have any inherent trade route bonuses, but she gets lots of them, sea trade routes are strong and her main trade cities can get up to 45% gold increase due to policy cards and Casa.

The rapid early expansion, in conjunction with her (pretty much guaranteed) golden age into Free Inquiry means her science is intially explosive too. My last multiplayer game I had 110 science by turn 80, and while it’s a temporary boost, it’s an important momentum shifter that can propel her into better things.

She’s really something because her abilities on their own look quite disparate and underwhelming but it’s amazing how wonderfully they hang together and complement each other. Especially in multiplayer, she is very very strong in MP in my opinion

 

[Datian]

Then I guess the weird "no embark or disembark cost" for the settlers makes sense, you can explore and settle without fear of being snatched by a barbarian when you find land.

Well I've got to try now, I'm intrigued

 

[isau]

I'm assuming you can perform this move in a city you conquered, if it has a Harbor, right? I could see it being a boss move in that situation.

1) Conquer.
2) A haha! But even if you take my cities, Loyalty will flip them back
3) Dido: Nah

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm assuming you can perform this move in a city you conquered, if it has a Harbor, right? I could see it being a boss move in that situation.

1) Conquer.
2) A haha! But even if you take my cities, Loyalty will flip them back
3) Dido: Nah

Nope. It has to be a city founded by Phoenicia.