so let be it: Turks

[nebuchadnezzar]

I can hear "they are already there" . no. every civ in the game has their nation's name: English for British, Viking for Scandinavians etc. the only exception: Ottomans. Ottoman (or Osmanli) is name of a dynasty, not a name of nation. In the next game, please pay attention to names, please. let it be Turks instead of Ottomans.

if you, the game developers, insist on the name Ottoman, then put a really great leader such as Suleiman the Magnificient or Fatih the Conqueror to game. Osman was not an important leader as others. (ok he founded the civ but he vas already in rule of that area, as his father Ertugrul)

 

[The Last Conformist]

I don't understand your comments re: the English and Scandinavians. The evil misuse of "Viking" went away with CivII, and the use of English is perfectly appropriate.

 

[Cuivienen]

He's saying "English" and "Scandinavian" are fine -- he objects to the use of "Ottoman" rather than "Turk," which is something that has always puzzled me. Maybe Firaxis called them the Ottomans because the Seljuqs were already in as a barbarian tribe?

 

[rcoutme]

Never the less, I agree with Neb, the Firaxian writers should definately use the term, "Turks". Since that is what they are.

 

[Deranger]

Not every civ has their nations name. The name of Germany is Deutschland, Germans don't call themselves Germans.

 

[Rammstein]

@ Deranger: You don't say? But this is not merely a question of language. You don't call the turks "ottomans" no matter where you're from in the world, do you?

Nebuchadnezzar is right.

 

[biggamer132]

Not every civ has their nations name. The name of Germany is Deutschland, Germans don't call themselves Germans.

However, Germany is the accepted international name of that nation. Ottoman Empire is not the name of Turkey. Similarly, Persia needs to be renamed Iran, since the name was officially changed in 1935.

It is possible to change the official name of the country before a game, though.

 

[socralynnek]

However, Germany is the accepted international name of that nation. Ottoman Empire is not the name of Turkey. Similarly, Persia needs to be renamed Iran, since the name was officially changed in 1935.

I don't agree with you, Civ is not about how the suff is named NOW, but Persia fits good as the historical name, so I also think they can leave the Ottomans in there because there was an Ottoman Empire (which somehow developed into Turkey nowadays).
OTOH how would you call the Aztecs now????

 

[c-mattio]

The point he is making is about use of titles, nouns and adjectives NOT old versus new names:

Title, Noun, Adj.

England, English, English (or if you prefer as I do Great Britain, Britons, British)
Germany, Germans, German
Persia, Persians, Persian
Ottoman Empire, Ottomans, Ottoman

This is incorrect as it should be:

Ottoman Empire, (Ottoman) Turks, Turkish or Ottoman

I think that is the point he was trying the make. It was the Ottoman Empire but the people were not Ottomans they were Turks.

 

[Loaf Warden]

Similarly, Persia needs to be renamed Iran, since the name was officially changed in 1935.

Irrelevant. The Persia in the game is Achemenid-era (Xerxes, Immortals, Persepolis, etc.) and is not intended to represent the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Ottoman Empire, (Ottoman) Turks, Turkish or Ottoman

I think that is the point he was trying the make. It was the Ottoman Empire but the people were not Ottomans they were Turks.

This I will agree with. It should have been Ottoman Empire -- Turks -- Turkish. Of course, this is purely an aesthetic decision and can easily be adjusted in the editor. Still, I hope they do correct that point.

 

[Deranger]

They should take the nation names of the times when they had their biggest influence and impact on world history, when they had their 'Golden Age'. And that would be Ottoman Empire as well as Persia. Another problem with 'Turks' is, that it is mainly an ethnical term, like Slavs. Bulgars, Huns, Mongols are all Turks, whereas the Ottoman Empire was an own nation. I think they decided right.

To say that every nation has its current name is wrong. Also Nippon has not its real, but its 'international' name. And there are no official Vikings or Celts anymore as own civilisations, but of course they rightly have a place in the game.

 

[Philips beard]

The turks where at their greatest during the ottoman rule, thats why they are called the ottomans in the game. Thats also why the Incas are not called Peru, the Atzecs Mexico, the Babylonians Iraq, or the romans Italy!

You must face it, the Ottomans had more effect on world history then the puny nation of Turkey has to day!!!!

 

[Shevchenko]

The Ottoman Empire Civ should remain like it is(except maybe changing its leader to Suleyman I) for the empire was far more important to world history and Turkish history that Turkey, the achivements of turkey are nothing compared to what the Ottoman Empire did(no offense) ,for my opinion the Ottoman Empire and Turkey are almost the same ,just that the name was changed to Turkey when the ottoman dynasty was abloish in November 1,1922 after the Ottoman Empire defeat in WW1 and lost all its lands except Anatolia.

 

[Chauliodus]

The Ottoman Empire Civ should remain like it is(except maybe changing its leader to Suleyman I) for the empire was far more important to world history and Turkish history that Turkey, the achivements of turkey are nothing compared to what the Ottoman Empire did(no offense) ,for my opinion the Ottoman Empire and Turkey are almost the same ,just that the name was changed to Turkey when the ottoman dynasty was abloish in November 1,1922 after the Ottoman Empire defeat in WW1 and lost all its lands except Anatolia.

And Thrace, thought that should have been given to Greece imo.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I think they were called Ottomans to distinguish between other Turkish tribes. Before the Ottoman Turk empire there was a Seljuk Turk empire, which conquered mesopotamia when it was Arabic.

 

[sir_schwick]

In the spirit of this discussion, Alexander the Great should not be the figurehead of the Greek(Hellenic) civlization. Alexander was Macedonian, a big national and ethnic distinction to those who live in the Greek peninsula. The Greeks really should be called the Hellenes, considering that is what they were known as in their golden age. A good leader should be Pericles(I was always a big backer of AThens).

 

[MSTK]

IIRC, Turks were already a Barbarian tribe...?

 

[deo]

Turkey is a name of an nation and Ottoman is a name of an Civ

 

[thestonesfan]

I tend to agree with the Turkey side of things, but it could go both ways.

Weren't the Ottoman's still called "Turks", though?

One argument in the Turk's favor is that it would represent all the Turkic people better. There were more than the Ottomans.

 

[deo]

There were two turkish tribes: The ottoman turks and the selgjuk turks. And at the time of the invasion of the turks we called them Turqit.