So, No Britain?

[Siptah]

Firaxis announces an English leader...

Take 1

*drumroll please*

Spoiler :

William the Conqueror!

No? Ok...

Take 2

*drumroll please*

Spoiler :

Charles Edward Stuart!
(aka Bonny Prince Charlie)

Still no? Ok...

Take 3

*drumroll please*

Spoiler :

Mary I!
(aka Bloody Mary)

Nailed it.

Still waiting for Cromwell. He is take 4 yesno?

 

[queenpea]

I'm always advocating for more female leaders in Civ, and England has historically been a good source of said leaders for 6 games now. That said, I think it would be fun to have Wellington or Nelson as a foil to Napoleon.

 

[TheGrayFox]

I'm oh so tempted to point out that, in the wake of Brexit, Great Britain is no longer a major civilization. But it would be rude to point that out, so I won't

that would be a silly thing to point out considering the game represents a time before Brexit was even a thought

also Britain is still much more of a "major civilization" than Buganda or Hawaii have ever been

 

[Phrozen]

We'll almost certainly get an English leader in the DLC that introduces Britain. I'll be curious to see if it's Elizabeth I again or someone new. Or maybe it will be Henry II because we do not have enough French leaders.

William the Marshal is available. Considering he was a powerful figure in the Angevin Empire and worked for or was regent to all its major leaders.

 

[agamemnon_of_the-bronze_]

I'm always advocating for more female leaders in Civ, and England has historically been a good source of said leaders for 6 games now. That said, I think it would be fun to have Wellington or Nelson as a foil to Napoleon.

castlereigh also was essential to thwarting napoleons schems.

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

I must admit that I'd be rather partial to Turing, especially for an industrial/scientific Britain... Lovelace would also be great!

 

[Archanist]

I must admit that I'd be rather partial to Turing, especially for an industrial/scientific Britain... Lovelace would also be great!

Turing would be great for counter spying bonuses.

 

[Stomper66]

The games called 'civilization' but the first civilisation to industrialise and bring the world into the modern age is not in the base game? Okay .

I can only hope that we get a proper representation of Britain in every era (like what India and China are getting) in future DLC. Think I'll hold off until I see that happen and we get some decent real world maps. Without Britain I just can't enjoy the game for historical immersion.

I'm not accepting the Normans as England in exploration. They were vikings who settled in France, England, Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Italy, North Africa and the Middle East. They are okay as a generic one size fits all civ for medieval Europe just as the Abbasid Caliphate is for the Islamic world, but they cannot be contained to just one country.

I'm glad Prussia are in I don't know why they didn't just call the civ Germany though. The whole decision making and marketing of this game has just been awkward.

​

 

[thecrazyscot]

The games called 'civilization' but the first civilisation to industrialise and bring the world into the modern age is not in the base game? Okay .

I can only hope that we get a proper representation of Britain in every era (like what India and China are getting) in future DLC. Think I'll hold off until I see that happen and we get some decent real world maps. Without Britain I just can't enjoy the game for historical immersion.

I'm not accepting the Normans as England in exploration. They were vikings who settled in France, Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Italy, North Africa and the Middle East. They are okay as a generic one size fits all civ for medieval Europe just as the Abbasid Caliphate is for the Islamic world, but they cannot be contained to just one country.

We have England in Antiquity - Rome. It would be nice to get a Celtic civilization at some point, but Rome will do.

Normans do just fine as an (early) Exploration stand-in. It wouldn't be several hundred more years after the Norman conquest that England was anything more than a pretty poor backwater that did little of consequence beyond being antagonists to the vastly more culturally and economically significant continental powers. Britain only really deserves direct representation in the Modern Age - they simply weren't all that important before then.

Off to get some popcorn.

 

[trev1972]

The games called 'civilization' but the first civilisation to industrialise and bring the world into the modern age is not in the base game? Okay .

I can only hope that we get a proper representation of Britain in every era (like what India and China are getting) in future DLC. Think I'll hold off until I see that happen and we get some decent real world maps. Without Britain I just can't enjoy the game for historical immersion.

I'm not accepting the Normans as England in exploration. They were vikings who settled in France, England, Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Italy, North Africa and the Middle East. They are okay as a generic one size fits all civ for medieval Europe just as the Abbasid Caliphate is for the Islamic world, but they cannot be contained to just one country.

I'm glad Prussia are in I don't know why they didn't just call the civ Germany though. The whole decision making and marketing of this game has just been awkward.

​

As a primarily TSL player I would love earth maps but I don't think they would work with the game mechanics?

 

[Stomper66]

We have England in Antiquity - Rome. It would be nice to get a Celtic civilization at some point, but Rome will do.

Normans do just fine as an (early) Exploration stand-in. It wouldn't be several hundred more years after the Norman conquest that England was anything more than a pretty poor backwater that did little of consequence beyond being antagonists to the vastly more culturally and economically significant continental powers. Britain only really deserves direct representation in the Modern Age - they simply weren't all that important before then.

But Rome isn't specially England or Britain it's most of Europe. Same goes for Normans. Fine for a stand-in and I'm fine waiting. You say they only deserve to be in the modern age and they didn't even make the cut there.

As a primarily TSL player I would love earth maps but I don't think they would work with the game mechanics?

I think for the rest of the world you are nearly there but for Europe no. Because if you want a France, Britain Germany and Russia in the modern era those civs don't all have a historical path from the other eras to get to them civs. You'd have to have something like Gauls-Kindgom of France-French Empire or Huns-Muscovy-Russia for all civs to get to that point. Could be done in future DLC but that will be done after about 2 years.

 

[TheGrayFox]

We have England in Antiquity - Rome. It would be nice to get a Celtic civilization at some point, but Rome will do.

Normans do just fine as an (early) Exploration stand-in. It wouldn't be several hundred more years after the Norman conquest that England was anything more than a pretty poor backwater that did little of consequence beyond being antagonists to the vastly more culturally and economically significant continental powers. Britain only really deserves direct representation in the Modern Age - they simply weren't all that important before then.

Off to get some popcorn.

Rome isn't England thats just silly and Normans are a poor choice for an exploration age Civ because they themed the exploration age so heavily around the discovery and colonilization of the New World, where they do not fit at all. The idea that England only became a relevant world power in the the 18th century simply isn't true. They were a regional power in Europe already and had began colonizing the Americas centuries before the modern age even begins in Civ VII.

The argument of importance also falls flat right on its face when you see that the included Hawaii over England.

 

[Zaarin]

But Rome isn't specially England or Britain it's most of Europe.

There wasn't really anything of note going on in the British Isles before the Romans. I could see late in the development cycle getting Antiquity Anglo-Saxons, though, since they're not using an absolute timeline. I think Normans being 100% English in their design makes any other version of Exploration England unlikely, though. You could easily mod their name to England, though.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Normans do just fine as an (early) Exploration stand-in. It wouldn't be several hundred more years after the Norman conquest that England was anything more than a pretty poor backwater that did little of consequence beyond being antagonists to the vastly more culturally and economically significant continental powers. Britain only really deserves direct representation in the Modern Age - they simply weren't all that important before then.

They could have conceivably done Exploration England based off of the Tudor period, and that's the start of when they started becoming more relevant on the world stage.

 

[ehecatzin]

I'm not accepting the Normans as England in exploration. They were vikings who settled in France, England, Scotland, Ireland, Belgium, Italy, North Africa and the Middle East. They are okay as a generic one size fits all civ for medieval Europe just as the Abbasid Caliphate is for the Islamic world, but they cannot be contained to just one country.

I will say I'm fine with Normans as English representative for now, however I do agree, I would have loved it if the Norman civ had a more Sicilian flavour, to leave space for something like Tudor England on Exploration, but that would have the Pro-British folk in an ever worse possition.

I think Normans being 100% English in their design makes any other version of Exploration England unlikely, though. You could easily mod their name to England, though.

Yeah exactly, Normans are English normans, so, no England in exploration. However I do have a hunch that when "Great Britain" comes it will "lean into exploration England" flavour to compensate (instead of WWII nods, like other civs)

 

[Evie]

...but Ed Beach had his heart set on the Normans, so Normans we get.

(And as far as invading dynasties and emoires from outside not counting, then China (foreigners Qin don't count) and India (foreigners Mughals don't count) don't have full representation, so I will laugh at anyone who claim to want a full Anglo-British "like China" but refuse to count the Normans, or even the Romans for it).

 

[thecrazyscot]

But Rome isn't specially England or Britain it's most of Europe. Same goes for Normans. Fine for a stand-in and I'm fine waiting. You say they only deserve to be in the modern age and they didn't even make the cut there.

You're talking about ~2000 years ago - it's Rome or small, insignificant tribes who can be arguably blobbed as Celts. Antiquity and early Medieval Britain is a cavalcade of conquerors and tribal migrations - so saying there's an "English" identity in Antiquity is nonsense.

Rome isn't England thats just silly and Normans are a poor choice for exploration age because they themed the exploration age so heavily around the discovery and colonilization of the new world. Also your idea that England only became a world power in the modern age is silly. They were a regional power in Europe and colonizing the Americas centuries before the modern age even begins in Civ VII.

The idea that Hawaii was more important than England is laughable

England's colonization efforts in the Americas were pretty small expeditions that only took root because they weren't really directly competing with the more important continental powers and because the indigenous people had been decimated by plagues, so the land was pretty empty. And even then quite a few of their early colonies were horribly incompetent. England got supremely lucky in North America.

A world power at this stage? Nah - world-class sailors and pirates, sure, but they didn't do much but rob from actual world-class powers. They certainly were a regional power in their specific area but could easily be completely ignored by most of Europe, the Mediterranean, Asia, and, well, everywhere else.

I didn't say anything about Hawaii.

 

[Stomper66]

There wasn't really anything of note going on in the British Isles before the Romans. I could see late in the development cycle getting Antiquity Anglo-Saxons, though, since they're not using an absolute timeline. I think Normans being 100% English in their design makes any other version of Exploration England unlikely, though. You could easily mod their name to England, though.

That's like saying ''There wasn't that much going on in India, Canada, Australia and large parts of Africa before the British came along''. I'm not justifying Britains presence for achievement because they were the world superpower for 200 years and the achievements don't even need noting . I'm wanting them in the game for immersion and I think I would rather play them as an unimportant backwater in earlier eras it would be more fun. Other than the wonder I don't know what make the normans 100% English in this game. Charlemagne is their associated leader. What makes them English in medieval exploration is longbows, sea dogs and an English monarch (as in after William I)

 

[Rhinestone Eyes]

Devs still not confirming Prussia over Britain as the last modern age civ still feels a bit suspect to me this close to launch. All the secrecy (and accidental reveals from recent previews) regarding the modern age is just plain weird, like guys, what are you hiding. With Ed Beach telling journalists early on that London via Romans/ Normans/ modern England was the inspiration for the ages concept, I feel he has somewhat misled people when they realise modern age England will be locked behind a paywall (with Rome and the Normans in base game). People are paying a lot for this game and the average fan probably assumes all the big civs will be present from the outset, not you have to pay for the civs that are the global powerhouses of the respective three ages later on, especially with the amount of marketing for the game I'm seeing on social media. As others have said on here, I imagine it's an exec decision to keep the money rolling with the large fan base prepared to pay for modern Britain. Still doesn't sit well with me, saying that I like some of the other decisions made with Civ7 so far. I hope for clarification from Firaxis tomorrow or more likely Monday unofficially when the reviews land. I'm not paying anything until you officially confirm modern Britain is coming later and give me a good reason for it being cut from the base game.

 

[thecrazyscot]

They could have conceivably done Exploration England based off of the Tudor period, and that's the start of when they started becoming more relevant on the world stage.

Agreed - as I said Normans are fine for an early Exploration period representation. Tudor England is the only one that makes sense for an England of any significance, and that would be a late Exploration period given the timespans we are arbitrarily limited to by the game.