So the AI seems to always delay the Parthenon...

[futurehermit]

I haven't seen much love for the Parthenon wonder, but here are a couple of tidbits:

1) There is a fair bit of love for the philosophical trait and the parthenon gives 1/2 of the main bonus of this trait (50%+ gp generation)

2) The AI seems to always delay going for the Parthenon...i.e., it is relatively easy for a human player to pick up

3) Admittedly, the Parthenon does favour a GA, but as long as it isn't built in your main specialist city then at most it will generate 1 GA which can be used for a culture bomb or on music (prereq for miltrad...)


I just finished a game with Louis (I quit after Shaka attacked me when I was at war already with Vicky [don't ask, lol...]) where I built pyramids/parthenon/gl/ne quite early. I could feel the power, although I didn't leverage it like it should've been leveraged...

So, what do you think...?

If you want to run a FE/SE in the early game (best idea imo) and you're not philosophical--and especially if you are industrious and/or have marble--why not take a shot at the parthenon?

 

[Sisiutil]

I rarely bother with the Parthenon; it's a "nice to have" wonder and far from being essential, especially if you're Philosophical or can run Pacifism for an extended period of time. I usually only bother if I have a "spare" Great Engineer at the right time.

I actually like to build it most when I am Philosophical. Great Person generation just goes through the roof, especially, again, when combined with Pacifism. I'll often hold off on National Epic under these circumstances to give all the cities a chance to generate their GP. You can see examples of this in the Mao and Alexander ALCs.

 

[futurehermit]

^^^But look what I'm saying: people think philosophical is great because it enhances gp generation, but why not the parthenon? Granted, it's not essential, but if you are NOT philosophical, why not get 1/2 the bonus of one of the best traits in the game? I'm coming from the perspective that the AI tends to avoid building this wonder and the main threat to building most wonders is that the AI will beat you to it, especially on higher levels...

 

[pigswill]

Its a fair point. Not many other wonders give half a trait's benefit. Parthenon is obseleted by chemistry but its still enough to boost GPs early game when they're the most useful. Unlike National Epic it benefits every city making GP contamination less of an issue.
It has to be said that I rarely have a game where I start with marble but if I do I'd give parthenon a whirl.

 

[DaviddesJ]

If you want to run a FE/SE in the early game (best idea imo) and you're not philosophical--and especially if you are industrious and/or have marble--why not take a shot at the parthenon?

At what level? These strategy threads that leave out the level of play seem rather pointless to me. Trying to build the Parthenon at Noble is a lot different from trying to build it at Immortal.

 

[shadow2k]

At what level? These strategy threads that leave out the level of play seem rather pointless to me. Trying to build the Parthenon at Noble is a lot different from trying to build it at Immortal.

From his other posts, I'm pretty sure he plays Monarch/Emperor.

I normally don't bother with wonders on Emperor or above. I need those hammers for other things, I just take what other civs build for me.

 

[futurehermit]

I'm talking about emperor and below. Immortal/Deity is like a different game imo...On emperor with marble and/or industrious it is quite easy to build the parthenon...and you can only build so many cities (3, 4 if organized) early on anyways...

edit: forgot to say that I have seen the parthenon last as long as 400-600AD on emperor!!! the earliest I've had the ai build it in my practice games is 675BC and it is quite easy to get it before that, even with chopping the pyramids first...and if you have stone (for pyramids) or marble and/or are industrious it becomes even easier to get both...try it out, it's very powerful imo. I've been playing with Louis and if you can get the 'mids/parthenon/GL early on, it's quite a powerful economy...

 

[kniteowl]

I'm talking about emperor and below. Immortal/Deity is like a different game imo...On emperor with marble and/or industrious it is quite easy to build the parthenon...and you can only build so many cities (3, 4 if organized) early on anyways...

edit: forgot to say that I have seen the parthenon last as long as 400-600AD on emperor!!! the earliest I've had the ai build it in my practice games is 675BC and it is quite easy to get it before that, even with chopping the pyramids first...and if you have stone (for pyramids) or marble and/or are industrious it becomes even easier to get both...try it out, it's very powerful imo. I've been playing with Louis and if you can get the 'mids/parthenon/GL early on, it's quite a powerful economy...

If this is all experimental, assuming your Industrious and have marble, why not delay Parthenon building... or chopping until mathematics or since you have Marble Oracle Slingshot to Mathematics and power chop the Parthenon, 30H + 50% Ind + 100% Marble, 75H per chop. You could easily rush the Wonder and possibly save a couple forest. Assuming your just experimenting with a Parthenon Rush.

 

[futurehermit]

Of course that is a possibility, but every year you wait is risk and also delay of the benefit of having it early...

 

[oyzar]

futurhermit i have had quite sucess with building 9 cities and conquering another 4 or so before getting col. On emproer that is. Land is power.

 

[OscarWildebeest]

Isn't Parthenon almost a must-have if you're going for a Cultural Victory?

 

[Sisiutil]

Isn't Parthenon almost a must-have if you're going for a Cultural Victory?

It's certainly helpful for generating more Great Artists but it isn't essential; I've won several cultural victories without it. The Sistine Chapel is a lot more valuable to a cultural win.

 

[futurehermit]

parthenon combined with sistine chapel should be pretty powerful for a cultural victory...few things are necessary in order to win (except playing well of course )

 

[futurehermit]

futurhermit i have had quite sucess with building 9 cities and conquering another 4 or so before getting col. On emproer that is. Land is power.

nice stuff, i'm curious how you handled your economy during this time. did you just let it drop with the plan of catching up later, or did you run specialists to keep your economy chugging along?

 

[oyzar]

Let myself drop behind. As others have noted the AI's dont have enough techs worth trading away anyways so i just let myself fall behind and traded up through lightbulbing while continusly expanding. As i got more developed cities I got quite alot of teching power myself. Started on large continents with 4 other civs though. MAnsa and toku was on the other continent and he was actually techleader when he found us even though i had been trading quite alot. Having 13 cities before catapults give quite some power both for teching and military. This was with no barbs though so i could build Worker - warior setler setler setler workboat worker setler setler or something in my capital. Most of the other cities started with worker first. I got one hapiness reasource with my 7th city or so and captured another from my nearest neighbour(incas). This was with catherine though so i could easy rex quite fast with both imperialistic and creative.

 

[futurehermit]

^^oh, no barbs...lol...i was wondering "how is it that it seems so easy for all these other people" yeah, no barbs helps a lot when REXing cuz otherwise you risk getting pwned by barb archers and axes...

land is power though, no doubt about that...

 

[shadow2k]

This SG might be interesting in relation to this topic. They have to disband all their Great People.

But even in a culture victory, Parthenon isn't even close to necessary. The only time I ever bothered doing a culture victory (Monarch/Ghandi), I didn't build the Parthenon, someone got it before me. But my weakest city at 572cpt only had one GA joined, with the culture slider at zero (I didn't use it all game), and it wasn't starving or anything like that. Nothing cheezy going on, just lots of buildings, and 450% culture (5 cathedrals, Hermitage, Free Speech).

My other cities were at 832cpt (0 GA's joined) and 904cpt (4 GA's joined). I generated 10 total GA's, had one left over as all three cities hit legendary in 1811 on the same turn. So that leaves only four for bombs.

Weakest city would have been doing around 500cpt without the joined GA. If I'd bombed it four times (it only got two I think, the others both got one), that means it would need to make up 24k culture on epic. That's only a 48 turn difference.

While not exact, take away 10 GA's from me that game...and I win in 1850 instead of 1811. The Parthenon isn't going to add that many GA's to anyone's game anyway though.

The biggest factor I saw in a culture game is the cathedrals. I had five of the seven cathedrals in all three cities. The GA's I really could have done without. I imagine I could have made up for the loss of them very easily by simply using the culture slider.