skadistic
Caomhanach
Cute. Could you troll any harder?
So When will Murtha Apologize?
- Thread starter Merkinball
- Start date
Cute. Could you troll any harder?
When is Murtha going to apologize for saying O.J. killed in cold blood?
Merkinball
Deity
]
He doesn't have to, OJ was guilty in the civil trial.
Erik Mesoy
Core Tester / Intern
I don't think it includes all those.
the Washington Post article said:
The WP article you linked to is from Oct 11 2006 - the Internet Archive reports Iraq Body Count being 44k-49k at that time, and IBC counts violent civilian death confirmed in multiple independent media, which should be taken as a bare minimum, not as an estimate, unless you're so paranoid that you think the media not only fabricate deaths, but correlate their fabrications with one another, and fabricate more deaths than the number that they fail to report, not to mention e.g. deaths from disease as a result of loss of infrastructure...
Merkinball
Deity
Those counts take into account all the bodies that go through morgues. So uhh... where are the other 90% of the bodies?
JohnRM
Don't make me destroy you
Ah yes, Double Jeopardy at its finest!
They don't hand out guilty verdicts at civil trials.
Merkinball
Deity
Which is why he gave up all his money right? Because he didn't do anything wrong right? Nothing at all right? Just uhhhh...hand over the money and there won't be any problem right?
Aren't a couple of those marines still being charged? I think one charge was dismissed because the accused agreed to testify against one of the others...
Why are some of these Marines cutting testimony deals if none of them did anything wrong?
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
You, of all people, know why. For the simple reason there is a difference in not doing anything wrong and being perceived to have done something wrong, and the risk of taking chances in a jury trial.
Of course, you already knew all that, since undoubtedly you would try for the same for any client of yours in the same situation.
Risks in front of a jury is a two-sided coin. Prosecutors cut deals with the guilty all the time to avoid losing completely in front of a jury and also to go after the non-cooperating guilty by the use of the testimony from the cooperating guilty. The point is, very few people are apologizing to O.J. because they still think he did it. Murtha is under no obligation to assume that any deals being cut are purely because the defendants are innocent.
Merkinball
Deity
Now, I know that the media hasn't done its proper job at reporting this. Because of course, they are against the war and reporting anything other than that these guys murdered 24 innocent civilians would be treasonous to them, but thankfully, as a good Marine, I have stayed on top of this story for a very long time and can provide the explanation for you.
First, since Murtha doesn't know, Scharat's charges have already been dropped:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20070809-1050-ca-marines-haditha.html
There were two Marines who took plea bargains. Well, in testimony, it has come out that NCIS coerced them to take the deals, to lie, in order to get a lesser charge brought up against them. NCIS basically said that no matter what, they were gonna be found guilty, so they might as well lie against the others to get a lesser trial. Oh yeah, in testimony, on the stand.
In short order, they told the court that NCIS forced them to lie to convict other Marines so they could get a lesser sentence of something that they didn't even do
As mentioned earlier, one officer has already been let off for failing derilection of duty for not investigating this incident. Well, the Captain who was charged is now under trial, and guess what. That guy made a power point presentation that outlined the entire ordeal after all. And he will probably be getting his charges dropped soon (his charges have been dropped, I wrote this weeks ago). The best part, is that this power point presentation pokes huge holes in the case against Lcpl Scharrat (Scharrat's charges have been dropped too).
Lcpl Tatum is accused of six murder charges for killing women and children, has testified that when he threw a grenade into the house, and then opened the door and fired, that he didn't know there were women and children in there, but knew they had been shot at from the house.
A second house, where civilians were killed, they heard an AK-47 being racked, and one was also found inside that house.
Maloney (NCIS agent testifying) said at least 17 bullets had been fired. He said the women were shot first, and that the children were killed as they scrambled to escape.
But under defense cross-examination, Maloney acknowledged that he based his conclusions on photographs. He said a brief, on-site investigation four months after the killings revealed no physical evidence tying the Marines to the scene.
-------
Mendoza's testimony contrasted starkly with any previously heard account of the killings. That's because he fabricated it to win a deal that saves him from prosecution and possible deportation to his native Venezuela, defense attorney Jack Zimmerman said.
During cross-examination, Mendoza acknowledged that he had given different statements to an Army colonel who investigated the killings and then to agents from the Naval Criminal Investigative Service.
Mendoza said those statements were lies designed to shield his fellow Marines from prosecution.
Mendoza testified that he changed his story earlier this year after his lawyers urged him to tell the truth and after he received immunity. At the time, he said, no one had told him that his citizenship application could be canceled if he were charged with a crime and that he could be deported if he were convicted.
Mendoza also admitted to shooting two unarmed men during the alleged rampage in Haditha.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070718/news_7m18tatum.html
NCIS never had a case.
Stewbert 08
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 591
'zactly. He can believe whatever he wants.
They might be able to sue him though, right? Newspapers have to say "alleged" until they can either say "confessed" or "convicted." Wonder if the same standard applies to private individuals.
Oh REALLY Mobboss, so there wasn't a group of Marines who were found guilty of raping a girl and murdering her family and sentenced to a total of several hundred years in prison? Do enlighten me about exactly what happened then because clearly those LIBERAL BLOGGING BASTARDS have been feeding me a load of misinformation!
Merkinball
Deity
So the UCMJ shows propensity to convict, strictly mind you it's people, but in the case of Haditha, they are guilty, and just being cut deals.
I got news for you, murder charges aren't dropped as part of deals. Especially they've been dropped here.
The Marines in Haditha did NOT premeditarily kill civilians. The whole thing was a gigantic sham.
I got news for you, murder charges aren't dropped as part of deals. Especially they've been dropped here.
The Marines in Haditha did NOT premeditarily kill civilians. The whole thing was a gigantic sham.
I must be practicing law wrong then.
Merkinball
Deity
You've done it? Completely? Not involved in deals? Like with what happened to Scharratt? Just up and drop them, ya know, just because. Maybe they're your friends and whatnot.
I really don't see what your law practice has to do with Mattis dropping murder charges anyway.
Remember, almost all of these guys went through judicial hearings.
Ecofarm
Deity
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html
(Same article)
That is 600k dead to violence (including domestic murders, car accidents, suicide bombs, etc). I would go into the actual poll itself, but I've already been there.
So, you are saying that at least 600k and possible 1.2m Iraqi civilians have been killed by US troops? Do you honestly believe this statement to be true? Wouldn't you say, given the 80k - 400k realistic range, that using the figures of 600k and 1m as flat out "murders" and "terrorist action" by the US government is unfair? I would put collateral damage at 100-300k (but I'm including the 4 aforementioned estimates as well as reviews of those numbers and other estimates).
Ans so, my response to:
Stands at 100-300k. And it stands alot more securely than a range between the two highest poll result estimates to appear in major newspapers. Outliers hardly make a case for a realistic range. Further, I find putting the deaths caused by the US at 600k - 1.2m is blatently inflating the numbers by ignoring the causes of those deaths. Why inflate the number? I don't know.
I'm saying that I have gotten murder charges dropped for clients that no one should be apologizing to.
