HADITHA Again: Evidence suggests Marines deliberately killed civilians

blackheart

blackheart

unenlightened
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I've been gone for a little bit, but here's something:

Source: Evidence suggests Marines deliberately killed civilians
General will decide if Marines will be charged for Haditha deaths

Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Posted: 2:12 p.m. EDT (18:12 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.

Agents of the Naval Criminal Investigative Service have completed their initial work on the incident last November, but may be asked to probe further as Marine Corps and Navy prosecutors review the evidence and determine whether to recommend criminal charges, according to two Pentagon officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.

The decision on whether to press criminal charges ultimately will be made by the commander of the accused Marines' parent unit, the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force at Camp Pendleton, California. That currently is Lt. Gen. John Sattler, but he is scheduled to move to a Pentagon assignment soon; his successor will be Lt. Gen. James Mattis.

The case is one of several involving alleged unjustified killings of Iraqi civilians that have emerged this year, damaging the military's reputation for humane treatment of civilians and triggering calls by some Iraqi leaders to end the arrangement under which U.S. troops are immune from prosecution by Iraqi authorities.

The Marines initially reported after the November 19, 2005 killings at Haditha that 15 Iraqi civilians had been killed by a makeshift roadside bomb and in crossfire between Marines and insurgent attackers. Based on accounts from survivors and human rights groups, Time magazine first reported in March that the killings were deliberate acts by the Marines.

A criminal investigation was then ordered by the top Marine commander in Iraq, Maj. Gen. Richard Zilmer.

A parallel investigation is examining whether officers in the Marines' chain of command tried to cover up the events. The probe, which has not been made public, faults some officers for failing to pursue obvious discrepancies in the initial reports about what happened in Haditha and for not launching an early investigation.
Lawsuit filed against Murtha

Public attention on the Haditha case grew after Rep. John Murtha, D-Pennsylvania, a former Marine, asserted publicly on May 17 that he had learned from Marine Corps officials that innocent Iraqis had been killed "in cold blood."

Lawyers for Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, one of the accused Marines, argue in a lawsuit to be filed Wednesday in federal court that Murtha falsely accused Wuterich of murder and war crimes. (Full story)

The suit maintains that Pentagon officials "who have briefed or leaked information to Mr. Murtha deliberately provided him with inaccurate and false information" and that the congressman subsequently "has made repeated statements .... that are defamatory" to Wuterich and his fellow Marines.

Among the other cases of alleged deliberate killings of Iraqi civilians, eight Marines have been charged with premeditated murder and other criminal acts in connection with the killing of an Iraqi man in Hamdania on April 26. Also, five soldiers and a former soldier have been charged in the March 12 rape-slaying of a young Iraqi woman and the killings of her relatives in Mahmoudiya.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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Anyone have anything to debate?
 
blackheart said:
Anyone have anything to debate?
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Not at all. But don't you realise we're all too busy pointing out that the US, UK and Israel never target civilians, only accidentally kill them when they happen to be in the way of our bombs, and it was probably all concocted in the first place by Hamas, or Hezbullah, or Iran or, well, one of those untrustworthy Arab groups ?

You need to keep up, Blackheart. Western atrocities in Iraq are just so 2005.
 
Innocent until proven guilty

With that said it wouldn't suprise me if they did do these atrocities, but we can never be sure
 
Lambert Simnel said:
Not at all. But don't you realise we're all too busy pointing out that the US, UK and Israel never target civilians, only accidentally kill them when they happen to be in the way of our bombs, and it was probably all concocted in the first place by Hamas, or Hezbullah, or Iran or, well, one of those untrustworthy Arab groups ?

You need to keep up, Blackheart. Western atrocities in Iraq are just so 2005.
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I'm just trying to bring back the golden days.
 
Innocent until proven guilty as said.

As a Marine if thay did it they need to pay for their crime, if they didn't then they need to go free ... the most important thing they need is a fair trail and not be convicted in the press.

But also as a Marine I could say perhaps they needed a good killin.
 
Not news..... next!
 
Well they are under a lot of stress, I imagine I would probably crack under pressure and cap a civilian or 2 or 47.
 
You know, the worst thing about having so many reports about it, is that many people will stop to care about it.
 
Leatherneck said:
As a Marine if thay did it they need to pay for their crime, if they didn't then they need to go free ... the most important thing they need is a fair trail and not be convicted in the press.
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Wow! As a non-activist judge I feel the same way. Huh, and here I thought marines had a choke hold on right and wrong?

WTH TOBY KEITH?

---

Seriously though, I'm not sure what the big deal is? If you put 150k + people in a war zone inflict them with almost inhuman stress, its not surprising that many go nuts. Some, do things like what are alleged here. Others return home and kill their wives. Others commit suicide.

Its not shocking or unexpected. These guys may or may not be guilty, but undoubtedly, things like this have happened.
 
Seriously though, I'm not sure what the big deal is? If you put 150k + people in a war zone inflict them with almost inhuman stress, its not surprising that many go nuts. Some, do things like what are alleged here. Others return home and kill their wives. Others commit suicide.
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Or they begin stalking pink haired girls. Heh I'm sick in the head. *slides out of thread*
 
.Shane. said:
Wow! As a non-activist judge I feel the same way. Huh, and here I thought marines had a choke hold on right and wrong?

WTH TOBY KEITH?

---

Seriously though, I'm not sure what the big deal is? If you put 150k + people in a war zone inflict them with almost inhuman stress, its not surprising that many go nuts. Some, do things like what are alleged here. Others return home and kill their wives. Others commit suicide.

Its not shocking or unexpected. These guys may or may not be guilty, but undoubtedly, things like this have happened.
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I don't know what happened I wasn't there, but I can relate and understand the stress ...
You bust into a room people start screaming and running around you try to get order they keep screaming ... are they afraid or are they creating a deversion so some insurgent can pop out of the back room and put a cap in your ass. They keep screaming and silence is a finger pull away it gets confusing fast. So things happen right or wrong ... and yes you either learn to cope and deal with it or you snap. Thing is the left-wing media is going to try, convict and execute these guys before they ever get a chance and that is wrong.
Like I said if they did it then they should pay for their crime, if not then go free the main thing is that they get a fair hearing. It will not be open and shut there are many factors to consider. No one can understand it or explain it unless they have been there. Think of being on edge and driving a 150 miles an hour 24 hours a day. You have to react in micro-seconds and no way can you be right 100% of the time mistakes will be made.
 
Leatherneck said:
I don't know what happened I wasn't there, but I can relate and understand the stress ...
You bust into a room people start screaming and running around you try to get order they keep screaming ... are they afraid or are they creating a deversion so some insurgent can pop out of the back room and put a cap in your ass. They keep screaming and silence is a finger pull away it gets confusing fast. So things happen right or wrong ... and yes you either learn to cope and deal with it or you snap. Thing is the left-wing media is going to try, convict and execute these guys before they ever get a chance and that is wrong.
Like I said if they did it then they should pay for their crime, if not then go free the main thing is that they get a fair hearing. It will not be open and shut there are many factors to consider. No one can understand it or explain it unless they have been there. Think of being on edge and driving a 150 miles an hour 24 hours a day. You have to react in micro-seconds and no way can you be right 100% of the time mistakes will be made.
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Ok let me clear up the ignorance here. These marines are accused of execution-style killings. If it were even classifiable as aa case of collateral damage I doubt it would show up in the news. I find it funny that people keep trying to use the cause of stress and split-second decision making as a cause for execution.
 
blackheart said:
Ok let me clear up the ignorance here. These marines are accused of execution-style killings. If it were even classifiable as aa case of collateral damage I doubt it would show up in the news. I find it funny that people keep trying to use the cause of stress and split-second decision making as a cause for execution.
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Apparently you have never been trained to double tap someone in less than it takes to blink an eye.

But as I have said before, I will wait for the trial. I hope they get a fair one.
 
blackheart said:
I find it funny that people keep trying to use the cause of stress and split-second decision making as a cause for execution.
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The 2 are not the same. Stress can lead to bad split-second decisions as well as more thought out and planned bad decisions.
 
blackheart said:
I've been gone for a little bit, but here's something:



Anyone have anything to debate?
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Wasnt it already proven they did it on purpose? These jerks need to be locked up forever. What a disgrace...
 
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