A game with a crap GUI *IS* a game. And i've already made my point that the horrid controls are a REAL hindrance on immersion. A "good game with a crap GUI" is actually just a "joke". Good games don't have crap GUIs. This isn't the 8 bit era. Don't get me wrong, there are some design issues that really need help in this game (RA spam, intricate super-micro intensive luxury resource trading that requires trivial thought but a lot of execution, warmonger VC vs peaceful VC balance, etc). Controls first. Controls back in alpha. Hell, controls back in the PREVIOUS GAME. You can't seriously argue that 30-60 minutes of wasted time doesn't kill immersion. Your original argument actually talked about little sub-things to do; having 100's fewer clicks between these things would not give immersion by itself, but it would help. On top of that, control hotkeys/schemes are likely some of the easiest things to fix. Maths requires intricate game knowledge and a sense of fine balance, compensating for multiple unique civs and potential strategies. Fixing the controls includes...mapping some hotkeys and slightly altering how the city screen opens. And you can't POSSIBLY argue that units performing actions different from what they are ordered to do is OK on ANY level of play. That's a losing argument position, but ignoring it is silly. I agree that accessibility to features should be more intuitive; it would allow casual players to actually learn the hotkeys w/o effort ideally, but allow the same thing to be executed graphically regardless (note that what you're saying oddly resembles the approach in say, starcraft 2). However, the lack of hotkeys does not come anywhere near explaining the gobs of extra actions required. Hotkeys would certainly cut into them, but that's not the only story. Take, for example, trades in each game. Clicking or hotkeys, V makes you do it more often. Same thing with unit orders, telling cities what to build (you can no longer do this from the main screen and then simply click off), etc. Don't even get me started on waypoints and workers being interrupted by barbs that CANT POSSIBLY REACH THEM. Okay, shortcuts are somewhat more for hardcore players (isn't that a kind of decent chunk in their audience to be neglecting something so trivial but useful though?). #clicks and slowness affect everyone though, and civ V LOVES it some #clicks. I still don't get how more casual players never learned the shortcuts in civ IV though. If you're going to spend 200 hours on a game, memorizing 4-5 keys can't be that hard! Certainly, though, that is partially a failing of civ IV's UI: - It was not intuitively obvious about using shift/control/click as hotkeys, let alone making production queues memorized etc. - Waypointing was dangerous because of the non-interrupts despite enemy units being VISIBLE before moving - The game had bugged alt-clicking on units, and would pretend like you're always holding alt. This could lead you to declare war, without prompt, when attempting a simple trade. Firaxis knew about that bug for years...but chose to attempt to "fix" overflow wall whips, barb galley spawn rate, and "spread culture" missions in the last few patches of BTS, COMPLETELY ignoring the massive control flaws they'd had present since vanilla. To add insult to injury, two of those supposedly higher priority "patch" decisions introduced bugs, and only one has been fixed. It's not "good game first then controls". There is no such thing as a good game w/o good controls. Fighting the controls is not a game, or if it is, it sure as isn't "turn-based strategy". If people want to play "i wanna be the guy" or "kaizo mario", they should go play those...although ironically even those games designed around fake difficulty have better controls!!!! Even a game that JUST HIT BETA like MINECRAFT has better controls than civ V. This is a disgrace, and to see so many IGNORING it is both frustrating and not conducive to a good final civ product. Given the firaxis historical behavior when it comes to making streamlined controls (IE avoid having a streamlined GUI at all costs), I'm not holding my breath here, but I DO hope it gets addressed.