Social Engineering

[GeoModder]

Really? After I posted it I thought it would cause more confusion

You forget I have a background in both games.

You can if you'd like, but you would be wrong

Okay... well, guess that makes it for now easier to come up with benefits/disadvantages.
So, do we use the morale, research, police,... and so on labels now or not? (for now)

 

[woodelf]

Civics will work if we have traits and civics that use the same modifiers and nothing extra. So we can't have traits or civics that have independently controled variables. They have to be cummulative. I think.

 

[Gerikes]

Civics will work if we have traits and civics that use the same modifiers and nothing extra. So we can't have traits or civics that have independently controled variables. They have to be cummulative. I think.

If I understand you correctly, then yes, that's the weakness of Civics in this case, you can't say "Ok, once you reach +5 Police, something special happens that isn't just what happens at +1 to +4 but moreso" without making everything really ugly by doing it in python.

However, I wouldn't be against, at least for now, putting these things into the game just so that we have something to work with.

 

[woodelf]

Yup, we need that table that the total goes to and find the overall effect. But for now we can brainstorm civics/SE and traits and try to tie them all together.

 

[woodelf]

Time to kick this around again IMO.

Any of the new guys have thoughts? Should we stick with straight civics or go with the SMAC SE system?

 

[GRM7584]

I am fairly neutral on the matter. While I can appreciate the arguments in favor of the strategy involved in the extra layer that SE adds, I don't see it as vital to the mod. I'm just as happy making each choice fully unique in the effects it can create, instead of contributing to a pool of potentially unique effects.

Right now, I see several options:
-Leave what's there, and have someone begin the monster (presumably?) coding task of implementing SE as it is in SMAC (possibly temporary, but an easy point of reference with most effects having obvious civ counterparts)

-Create temporary/permanent civics along the lines of SMAC (Democracy, Cybernetic, etc), each with unique effects that feel sensible. (E.G. Wealth allows rushing with Gold and provides happiness for Energy Banks)

-Create temporary/permanent civics along the lines of SMAC (Democracy, Cybernetic, etc), each with generic effects along the lines of the "counterparts" mentioned in the first option, albeit without any additional bonuses. (E.G. Wealth provides +10% Credits, +10% Production, and -1 XP)

-Create temporary civics which represent the underlying categories in SE (Growth, Efficiency, etc) which only account for positives, with the understanding that it will be used as a code base for a later "full" implementation of SE (E.G. Production +1 provides +10% Production, Production +2 provides +20%, etc).

Edit: I am most in favor of the second option as a permanent solution, or the 4th option as a temporary solution.

 

[woodelf]

I'm leaning towards your option 2 as well GRM unless someone wants to hammer it out to make it like SMAC SE. The civics system in Civ4 can do a solid job and when you factor in leader traits you get good representation.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

I don't have any problem with option 2 but I still hope we can reach a SE board in a subsequent version. Let us have a fully playable mod first.

 

[woodelf]

If no one objects I'm going to revisit this and try to do option 2. I had some good notes somewhere a couple months back and need to refind them.

 

[woodelf]

5 months later and I never found those notes...

Check this thread for a new mini-mod that has sort of what I was thinking about ---- negative traits. Combining positive and negative traits and maybe even allowing them to be Adaptive ala FfH2 could be combined with civics to simulate SE. Unless someone still feels straight SE is the way to go.

 

[eddieb]

Here's an idea, use the same names for the civics as the Social Engineering names and categories. But instead of giving +/- numbers, just given the appropriate bonus, such as health, money, maintenance, military bonuses, etc.