Som tips on how to expand and why?

[dragomaster]

Hi!

I'm sort of a beginner.

In my curent prince game I have dificulties to choose where to put my second city, playing as Catherin of Russia. where shod i put it and why shod i settle there. Could a pro explain this to me mybe?

I will soon upload the map.

I like dot maps so a dot map of som starting citys please?

 

[dragomaster]

her's the map

 

[ratrangerm]

What have you researched so far? Is BW the first tech you researched? If not, it should have been... Catherine gets Mining to start so you can go right to BW at the start.

Given that you don't have river territory nearby, it's going to be hard to take advantage of Catherine's Financial trait this early. There are some resources that require Calendar in order to take advantage of them and thus take advantage of the Financial trait.

It might be better to finish researching BW and then look at the map again.

Do you have Animal Husbandry yet? Just checking, in case you haven't revealed Horses. You'll need Horses at some point so you can have Cossacks in the later game... Horses aren't as high priority as Copper or Iron, but it is something to keep in mind for the future.

 

[Elandal]

Your first expansion usually is towards the other civs, as they're less likely to try settling to your backyard - the contested spots will be between the civs. You can fill backyard later when you believe your economy can handle more cities. As in your map there are good spots in your backyard, they should be settled when you have Code of Laws and thus can build courthouses (to reduce maintenance costs).

You're three turns from completing Bronze Working. I would delay settling until that is complete, then see where's the nearest copper on the map. If you have copper in capitol, that no longer needs to be considered (you have copper, you don't need to settle 2nd city to grab a strategic resource), but if not (and that's more likely case usually), then settle near copper. The reason is simple: copper allows you to build axemen, and axemen are excellent units whether for war or for handling barbarians.

There's also unexplored area to the south of Moscow. What's there might effect the decision on where to settle.

Now, assuming you have copper in capitol and that doesn't need to be considered, and the fog to the south of Moscow is uninteresting, then we're talking about resources. Moscow has Gold (excellent), Corn (food is good), and spices. Maybe grabbing elephants, stone, and wheat would make for a good city. It would leave space for a city to it's north closer to Moscow (maybe coastal + cow, or maybe cow + some spices - yes it would overlap but that's not necessarily bad), and to east south of Moscow (where there depends on what's in the fog).

I wouldn't settle much further, as long distance would incur higher maintenance costs, but ivory and stone are very nice resources so grabbing them makes sense. Stone would allow you to build some wonders (eg. Pyramids) which without stone are harder to get - and Pyramids requires so many hammers that building it without stone available is almost questionable. And ivory is both immediatelly available luxury resource (add gold and you have two early luxury resources, bringing happiness up nicely) and a strategic resource that allows you to build War Elephants (I love them, they're great).

 

[ratrangerm]

After looking at the map a little more, I can see at least one site that would be good for your second city. In that row of three spice squares to the SW of Moscow, found it on the spice square furthest to the west. With your Creative trait, the cultural borders will pop quickly and get Ivory and Wheat within the city's borders. You'll also have plenty of hills that you can mine and forest you can chop, meaning you have a city with potential to be a military production city.

In Moscow, if you haven't done so already, build a farm on the corn and mine the gold. Have your citizens work both squares... the corn will provide enough food to grow and the gold will allow you to take advantage of the Financial trait.

But as I said in my previous post, knowing where Copper is will be helpful. So consider what I suggested here first until you get BW, then post your map again with Copper revealed and there might be a better site.

 

[dragomaster]

I researched for agriculture, mysticims and meditation before BW, founded buddhism.

any sugestion? there is in my opinion som good spots tho.

what do you think?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/69073/civsug2.JPG

Yellow is realy agressive and expensive but have gold and fish.
Yellow, black is anouther choise
pink, pink green and grey are... i think you get the point. do you have any outher sugestions?

 

[GoodGame]

I'm having trouble hosting the photo, but:


I think your next city should be 1 tile north (looks like a desert tile) of that lone moutain NE of your capital.

The reason: tons of food, forests, and decent (green grass) hills.

The only cons: a mountain and another desert--worthless, and coast---worthless until you get a lighthouse much much later. Also, the bonuses are two tiles away.

So you need to get Stonehenge, an obelisk an that new city, or a religious missionary to that site, to expand the culture, and then it will be awesome.


My 3rd city would be South West of your capital. I'd put it about two squares North of that Wheat, or maybe one square NE of that wheat.

The reason: lots of grassland, green hills, and tons of commerce bonuses. Getting that Ivory within two tiles of your city is a good idea for your empire, but settling right next to the wheat will help the city grow faster.

Main cons: you have to pass up a lot of good stuff, but spices are decent since it's free gold even without plantations. Other main con is lack of rivers/oasis/lakes it seems, so no farms until Civil Service.
That's only a real big con since you're a Philosophical leader---farms help them make specialists, which makes Great people. If you were Financial, it wouldn't be an issue at all, since you'd probably want cottages there anyway.


But if you want to build Stonehenge/Pyramids, then make my #3 choice as your #2 choice. Try to move closer to the Stone without giving up the Wheat (founding a religion will help a lot with this since culture is the big problem).

In my curent prince game I have dificulties to choose where to put my second city

 

[GoodGame]

Yellow is aggressive, but a good choice--didn't see it before. Since you have religion, Japan might even try to be your buddy. That yellow also has a nice flood plain that you should farm. All that gold would make a nice science/merchant farm city. The main problem is lots of coast---you'll need sailing by about pop4-5 to grow bigger.

Still good to get a lead in the tech race, and would be even better if you were financial.

I researched for agriculture, mysticims and meditation before BW, founded buddhism.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/69073/civsug2.JPG

Yellow is realy agressive and expensive but have gold and fish.

 

[dragomaster]

Her's the second and gues what, i have copper

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/69073/civsug3.JPG


what do you think.

the gold is already mind and the corn is whet. mybe i shod ho for the wheel next insted of IW.

 

[dragomaster]

Still good to get a lead in the tech race, and would be even better if you were financial.

I am Financial.

 

[GoodGame]

My bad I was thinking about Peter. 1 tile NE of the Wheat (near the spices) would be great then since u still get the Ivory. Don't cover up any of the spices.

You really don't need the stone unless you want Universal Suffrage early.

 

[dragomaster]

no problem

the new map reviles bananas to.

 

[dragomaster]

Im here, i was aiming for the yellow dot but i rely don't know where to settle now.

an update... scary.

and map

 

[GoodGame]

Near the rice to the SW is tempting, but with all the jungle, I'd avoid that area for a while. Those pink warrior mean more neighbors---might want to grab the wheat before the Yellow spot.

 

[Elandal]

Going for early religion without starting Mysticism is something I simply don't do. Too risky. Of the three early religions, I might end up with Judaism though, in case I need Masonry, go for Poly - Priesthood for Oracle, and notice that Judaism is still up for the grabs.

As Cathy is Cre/Imp (or is this vanilla? Don't remember her vanilla traits), stonehenge is irrelevant - except for the prophet points. As you did get early religion, a prophet for a shrine might be in order at some point, and stonehenge might be useful for that. But it's really a minor issue. Pyramids - early US is rarely useful. But what's wrong with early Police State, or early Representation? Both seem good to me.

So, you have copper in capitol, and so the second city can be placed freely.

I would rule out yellow directly as "too far". You can't share workers, fogbusters, can't reliably connect the cities, high maintenance.. Yes, the site looks good, but not yet. Yellow/black - closer but I'm not sure there's anything special about that site. Coastal, food, but not really that important (NE of the capitol is a good GP farm with the food, as GoodGame already noted).

Green and Green/Pink suffer from one serious problem: no food. No fresh water to irrigeta the grassland, no food sources. So if you work the goldmine there, you instantly stagnate. Not good - I can't think of a city that doesn't have food.. Except for pure resource grabs where the resources aren't necessarily worked. That's why I'd still suggest taking wheat with the ivory instead of going a bit west for the gold. You already have gold in capitol, you don't need gold as a resource.

If you decide to not get the stone, only ivory, then grey is fine. The banana can be used by another city, and you can't grab both ivory and banana to the same city anyway.

I guess my main priority would be the ivory now. Third city maybe NE of the capitol, for food to start farming scientists. But before settling the third city, I'd want to know a bit more of the map still - explore the coast south of Moscow, east of possible ivory city.


On religion and Tokugawa: Yes, religion definitelly helps. I've had friendly relations with Toku, and he's a good guy when he warms up.

Oh yes, what are the game settings? Map type, size, speed, number of civs? And do you have some strategy already in mind - want to go warring or building?

 

[Elandal]

Don't tell me that settler is not escorted? Oh dear - without escort it'll die of heart attack before ever getting to yellow..

I think I'd go for ivory / wheat / spice - seeing no escort 2 SE from where it now stands. Isabella's warrior and your scout are fogbusting the area, so moving there should be safe. Eventually (with CS) you'll chain-irrigate the wheat from river to the south. Assuming of course that you can reach that part of the map.

Oh yes, Isabella... You founded Buddhism, she's Hindu. Peace is not an option, you'll be in war with her in no time.

 

[dragomaster]

Hey, look at this!

greate site

and the situation

And no sign of US nor spain down south. hopfully i will kill tokogawa soon.


and yes i play the original patched version of civ iv.

i realy love those starts.

is Orange dott a real grab or what?

 

[dragomaster]

Now after all offtopic I realy don't know where i will put the my next city my settler is alteady finnised, I can put it near an iron or horse resurce.

could someone point out next city, plus future citys with an dot map and explain what use they will have. plus tell witch tech i sould reserch next.

ps. Isabella is way down south, no thret at this piont i guess. I will move one warrior towards Tokogawa, if he not hawe iron nor horses he will posibly send som settlers south or north of Novgorod.

my curent techs. and outhers.

 

[Elandal]

hopfully i will kill tokogawa soon.

The game is moving to a direction I rarely go for

In any case, yes - orange dot looks fine. You can work rice, gold, plains cow, stone, the plains hill - and still have 2 food extra. With Ivory and Gold your happy cap is 6 I think, so you have enough food to get there and get quite high hammers out of the city.

You might want to get iron from somewhere as well - the one west of Moscow is nearby, and goes well with either clam + wheat or the cow, either one could be coastal. Fourth city would drain your economy somewhat though, as the orange dot has somewhat high distance maintenance. Still, swords are good as you already have IW available (I don't go for IW that early if I have copper - rather go for Alpha -> Math -> Currency -> CoL for the economy to sustain more cities and tech trading, or Alpha -> Lit to build Great Library, trade for Math and IW, then go for Currency and CoL).

 

[dragomaster]

the thing is, now when i have stone i could posibly get the pyramides. and if i get it i can expand so hard if i play representation civic. those 3 plus science is realy something in the begining of the game. i can maybe compete with them untill i get curency. its risky i know. but still worth a try

here is what i think.