Som tips on how to expand and why?

If you are aiming to take advantage of your religion, you may want to research Priesthood and pursue the Oracle.

As for city sites, now that you have Iron Working, I'd probably found on that southernmost site first. You'll get Iron that way.

As for the other two sites, the horse/fish site to the west would mean you need to trade for Fishing and Sailing so it becomes a viable site.

The northernmost Iron site with the wheat should be your backup plan in case the southernmost site is taken before you get a settler there.

When you do get Fishing and Sailing, that land to the northeast with the fish, clams and iron will become a viable site. You may also be able to squeeze in a city where the northernmost horses are located, but if your borders expand far enough, you may not have to.
 
With Financial Cathy, running specialist economy instead of cottage economy doesn't really make much sense. Better cottage up and gain the extra commerce financial gives you.

The dot north of stone city is pretty much a fishery that grabs you horses. Novgorod has potential to produce high hammers early on, so lending the cow to fishery north of it makes little sense (plains cow is F3P3 - an excellent tile for production city). You can work the fish and horse, and hire two scientists stagnating at size 4 (pre-lighthouse), which is still good.

The dot south of Novgorod / St Pete is a bit harder. A bit hard for me to distinguish the tile types from the screeny, but there are two main problems settling it early on: banana and dye are calendar resources (and banana is the main food for the city), and it'll take lots of worker turns to clear the jungle.

The horse and iron north of Moscow make dotting that area a bit hard. The original idea of GP farm with three foods (fish, rice, cow) would miss both horse and iron, so might be better to split the foods and found horse + cow and clam + fish + iron. Or, to get horse and iron with still going for GP farm NE of Moscow, get cow + iron W of moscow then horse + wheat N of Moscow. This way you would get both resources and could ignore the iron NE, founding a GP farm with three foods there.

Overall, 6 cities pre-CoL is definitelly going to kill your economy. Fourth will already cause a definite hit. If you're going to war with Toku now, maybe simply go with axes, take a city or two (or raze them), then try to somehow get up the economy techs (research Alpha soon, trade for Math, see if you can trade for Currency, probably have to reserach CoL yourself), then finish whatever was left unfinished. Then again, if you are going to raze his cities (not taking any), possible maintenance costs from those cities won't enter the equation.
 
Do NOT trade for Fishing. Never, ever trade for a tech that cheap. You should be able to research it in no time yourself, and each tech (regardless of how many beakers it is) counts as a tech against WFYABTA limit.
 
Its going good. here is my laster update.

I think sout east of moscow is the best spot for my first costal city :lol:. thre hills, cow and rice.

be avare of that all pink spots is hills.

missed the pyramides by 4 turns :blush: but it gave me around 320 in gold so i am not complaining. that alowed me to race science with 100%

built the stoneage tho. and ges what no outher sivs will traid with me all ar juwish and no on want to trade. :D

need to reserch feudualism soon or els i's scrued.

Overwview.JPG


moscow.JPG


Soutsoutwestern_part.JPG


Soutwestern_part.JPG
 
I agree with the cities you've founded so far.

I think you should go for the southern-most site, in order to secure the extra health/happy and deny easy iron to your enemies. Settling one west of the iron in the northeast will give you fish anyway, and a resource-grab somewhere to the west of that can get the horses, making SeaHorse (north of Novgorod) redundant.

You could split IronClam into two, moving one south more in line with Moscow to work cow and iron, and the other northeast to grab horses and wheat. Both these cities should be coastal and build lighthouses.

The final nice site would be south-east of Moscow on the coast, for the rice and cow.

Edit: Ok, you posted an update while I was writing that. Rostov isn't too bad. The only dot I like on the new map is the one east of the rice, which I mentioned above. One west of the iron in the north-east is probably higher priority though, as it will be a better city. The dot between the wheat and horses should go north to the coast.
 
and ges what no outher sivs will traid with me all ar juwish and no on want to trade. :D

Isabella is HinJew founder, and usually quite aggressive about spreading her religion. If you didn't spam missionaries to any direction, then that's pretty much what happens..

Even when I found a religion early on, I don't switch to it until it's spread some (some others convert) or I absolutely have to get the happiness. I may also run some others' religion even if I found one myself. Eg. Buddhism founded by Isabella, spreads to me, I snatch Judaism (OR is a very nice civic), then I make sure both of those are spread to my own cities (so that later on the shrine will make some coin, and that I can switch between if I want to make Isabella an Instant Enemy), and as I have hammers try to send out missionaries around to convert others to Judaism. Or at least spread it so the shrine (when I get it) will make more coin.


So, now you're up at 5 cities. All those look fine to me. -17gpt running slider at 100% - where's the breakeven point? As in, still expanding or need to switch gears for economy?

Researching Calendar, what's the current tech situation? You mentioned nobody will trade with you - that means they have something you would've liked to trade for? :)

Also, there's blue on the map SW of Rostov - good to know where America is.

If you're still expanding, there seem to be two things you don't have: Horses, and coastal cities. You aren't going to get Horses with next border pop of any city, so if you want them, you must go get them.
I think the desert NE of Moscow, grabbing rice, fish and cow, would still make a nice GP farm. It'd be coastal, but the value of coastal cities depends on map type (if this is a single landmass map, they aren't that important). And horse with wheat north of Moscow looks OK for getting horses. Coastal as well.

After that, you still have some spots left to fill when you feel like, but none of them would bring in new resources.
 
I went on in my game and it resulted in a war with tokogawa and a open boarder agrement with washington wo's werry back in the techtree. and som new pals came over with boat from anouther or outher continents. i didn't have compas our outher sea navigating techs back then so no boats at all. just focusing on economical and military techs for now.

Philadelphia flipped over to the russian empier. i will produce some more millitary so i can crush the anoying Tokogawa, who declared war on me becous not accepting his demand on a tech. this uggly basterd going to be killed. i will take over two cities, edo and osaka and rase as many outher as i can. maybe give wasington some aswell. im planing to sen alot of missionaries to washington, now when i fianlly got got an open boarder with him.

her's the map.

civsug13.JPG


and a map on Yekaterinburg. i think this is one we all missed. two food resourses and four hills.

yekaterinburg.JPG
 
Two of the hills are desert hills - not the best type to work (F0P3, P4 with railroads - plains workshop is just as good post-chemistry, better when finally running state property civic). It's not a bad city - some dozen or so hammers, but a bit of a filler to my taste. Also, it's building a bank? I can't see it making any serious commerce, so is that just to fill the wall street requirement? I'm not sure if that city needs anything but granary, barracks, forge, and courthouse - then produce some units..

If the other continent reaches me before I get Compass, I get worried about how advanced they are. Sometimes I've thought things are going fine only to notice that the other continent is almost an era ahead of the continent I'm on, and so even if I'm leading the tech race on my continent, I'm way behind overall.

Also, it's 1490 and you're researching education. Breaking even at 70% is usually very good, but it's taking 19 turns... Is this Marathon speed? It's a bit late date for education and liberalism race - has the other continent grabbed it already? Or looking at the scores (you're second), do you think they've somehow stagnated in tech post-optics, maybe internal warring or something? None of them is running any religion - at least Saladin should've founded some. Have all religions been founded on your continent?

I see you founded Vladivostok north of Rostov, grabbing the fish and horse, stagnated at size 3, building a maceman. Sure that this is better than simply working the fish, horse, maybe some plains cottage or whatever you can cram there, maybe some coastal tiles (not ocean ones), and stagnating with two scientists? It doesn't probably make many hammers anyway.

You seem to be building some banks and a grocery. At least Novgorod looks more of a production city than commerce city, Yaroslavl' and Rostov probably better at commerce. Yakutsk seems to have lots of unimproved forest tiles - I think it might be able to run some half a dozen cottages there while not sure what's the production potential. Do you have enough workers? You have forests and jungle around, and it's a while to replaceable parts still - at least for some cities you probably should chop and cot, only saving forests where health is needed or where you think you're going to run lumbermills.


I live in the capitol area, and technically it could be said that I do speak Swedish (took Swedish as first language in school and spent several summer vacations in Åland), but in practice that doesn't hold much water - been probably 15 years since I last spoke it, so it's even worse than my German these days.
 
I have never ever ben this late in techs before, i think its becous no outher civs wanted to trade there techs in the begining. this is my first game on normal speed. at this time in epic i whod have bin in the lead probably with more than 100 points.

Maybe there's still a shot on liberalism tho. her's my saved game on the situation so far.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/69073/David_AD-1605.Civ4SavedGame

ok, you seem to be good at city planing. I am a looser at this. i realy whod need som help here. I will post screens on my citys and i whod be glad if you say your thoughts about how to mikro manage them.

Rostov.
rostov.JPG

Yaroslav'
Yaroslav_.JPG

Yekaterinburg
yekaterinburg.JPG

Yakutsk
Yakutsk.JPG

Vladivostok
Vladivostok.JPG

Smolensk
Smolensk.JPG

Philadephia
Philadelphia.JPG

Orenburg
Orenburg.JPG

Edo: Newly captured
Edo.JPG

Moscow
moscow.JPG

St. Petersburg
St._Petersburg.JPG

Nogorod
Novgorod.JPG
 
Not checking the save, as vanilla is acting up and I'm playing only warlords games myself anyway. Been hitting some graphics bugs, so probably will have to do full reinstall (and maybe update graphics card drivers) some day too.

But going from the screenies..

My basic idea is that working FP=3 tile is not useful unless it's a grassland farm that is required to provide food for something or other - but that something or other better be worthwhile then. Combination of grassland farm and grassland hill mine is F=4 P=3, which comes to 1.5 hammers per citizen - acceptable total result.

I'm a lumbermill freak, which means I often leave several forests alone waiting for replaceable parts. Lately I've been chopping more aggressively though, as the early game hammers are a big deal. Still, a forest waiting for lumbermill is a production city issue, commerce cities will have their forests chopped and replaced by cottages at whatever rate they need new cottages.

You're building commerce improvements in all major cities. Some city specialization might be in order - a city that isn't producing at the very least 20 base commerce at this phase doesn't need them. I would say that targeting 6 cottages is absolulte minimum for a city before I start cotting it up, and consider 12 cottages to be excellent - suitable for academy for example.

Rostov: gem mine, plains cow, and another food. Could easily be working 10 cottages, but OTOH could be working mines and workshops as well. One way or another, off with the jungle and drop some improvements there - be those workshops or cottages. As you already have mature cottages and commerce buildings (library, market, bank, building university), I guess cot up the rest of it too.

Yaroslavl': building wealth? Either build a building or a unit - wealth only if you're in dire straits with the economy. The city has commerce buildings, and looks extremely cottable. However, it only has one cottage as of yet, so watermills and workshops are still an option. Jungle crew needed here as well - clear the unhealthy foliage and drop some improvements in there.

Yekaterinburg: wait for rep parts, then lumbermills up. Farm over the grassland town, workshop to plains town. It's not going to get any real commerce going ever, so no point in trying. It should stagnate after one point of growth, as working the coastal tiles does not produce hammers. Harbor done next turn, after that it just needs barracks, then it should be producing units and only units (factory + coal plant inserted when needed). It will never reach happy cap, and with harbor doubling fish + clam health it will never reach health cap either.

Yakutsk: I'm not sure what to do with this one. Overall, it looks "mostly harmless", never going to produce serious commerce nor serious hammers. If it can't be a commerce city, then throw barracks in and slowly produce some units. Cities like this often end up working defensive units for me.

Vladivostok: after workboat, you need lighthouse, granary and library. Cottages to the plains and grassland it has, going to work coastal (never ocean - those are useless) tiles + horse + fish + two cots, stagnate by running two scientists. Whip what you need, but the horse provides nice hammers for it to build some part of the infrastructure (whipping is easy with the fish when netted).

Smolensk: like Vladivostok, not going to be much of a city. I guess the desert iron mine can be shared with Yakutsk (if Yakutsk is to produce units, it could use that for hammers). Smolensk can work some coastal tiles, but the food surplus allows nicely hiring two scientists. Library up as soon as possible, with the food you have whip all buildings you need.

Philadelphia: generally what is under the jungle is cottages :) Philly however is under cultural pressure and overlaps with cities in all directions. Just cottage whatever tiles it has left after those major cities have theirs. Artist is a good choice to work for as long as the cultural pressure persists (AI is bad at managing cultural borders, so you should be able to press the borders enough for philly to claim it's fat cross worth of tiles from the south), then switch over to scientists as food allows.

Orenburg has enough food to work five specialists. Either by caste system or simply by having buildings that allow it to run specialists. This could net you a fair amount of gold if you build market and grocer (2 merchants each was it?), or nice beakers if you run caste system. Five specialists means that you have to make choices regarding which types you're running, as they will be producing more great people points than other cities, thus netting your GPs. Oh yes - citizen specilists are simply useless. One hammer? Oh dear... crack the whip to get some infrastructure so you can run real specialists instead, or switch over to caste system.

.. at this point I checked it, and looks like you're running mercantilism. That explains the useless citizen specialist.

Edo: assuming it can at some point claim its fat cross, it definitelly could be cotted up. And it did come with Academy, so that might even be preferable. Still, I'm not sure if you have enough production cities, and Edo could become one with mines, watermills and workshops.

Moscow does not have a single cottage, but the terrain doesn't really lend for superior production either. Exactly the type of capitol that drives me nuts: commerce? Not truly cottable. Production? Not really superior. In this case I guess farm one grass (chop forest) so you can work the plains hill - and mine it. Moscow will get a nice production boost eventually from biology and another from state property, those two together allowing some workshops to be worked.

St Pete has good production potential (still some hills to be mined), so I'd rather farm the grass than cot it, then work more mines.

Novgorod: when you get rep parts and lumbermills, this will be a strong production city. Cottages are thus not needed, as it won't break 40 base commerce barrier ever - not even 20.

I think you'll need three production cities to produce reasonable amount of units to continue full war for real.
 
I think your city choices were good, but you may have expanded too fast. Pausing to build more workers might help and especially a few more cottages than farms (since youre Financial). Unless your ORGanized, or have just enough farms to work cottages, the city costs will eat up you slider Research funds since you're not going to be using specialists to do research.


When you're empire's getting costly, or not very advanced, focus on peace, building buildings, and improvements.

I have never ever ben this late in techs before, i think its becous no outher civs wanted to trade there techs in the begining. this is my first game on normal speed. at this time in epic i whod have bin in the lead probably with more than 100 points.
 
Thanks for all help. this threed made me a better gamer. the city sites were good indeed. i loaded the game from where i founded I Yaroslavl' and did exaktly like elandal said, maked more cottages. I made more monney and my reserch have barley ben lower than 90% at any piont. I switched to no state religon, started to trade some techs with the weakest civ wasington. Tokogawa went to war with washington, tokogawa askt for my suport, i refused, then wasington asked for suport and i accepted. I capured edo and a couple of turns later i got my first cossak, cossacks ar so powerfull. Jesus, i spawnd them out fron my cities ant took of Japan out once and for all.

Edit* One funny part though. When Mansa Mussa came by with his boat a traided he's map in exchange for a tach, and ges what hapend :D ... I became the firts so sail around the world without a singel ship. lol

overveiw.JPG
 
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